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Panthers president Yormak interview with Forbes

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Old
01-17-2012, 07:51 PM
  #101
james bond
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Hey, please don't characterize all of us as insular hockey elitists / chauvinists. I don't associate myself with that "HOCKEY IS OUR GAME" vocal minority. I love watching new markets flourish.

It's especially ironic to see that kind of signage in Vancouver where pond hockey could never be supported; unlike, say, the New England area or Minnesota or Chicago.

Perhaps I shouldn't of used such a blanket statement but you would certainly be in the minority.

The one Canadian market I perceive as being underserved is Toronto.There could be 2 teams in very close proximity (and not Hamilton). If you follow the EPL (soccer) at all, you would notice situations like Liverpool-Everton, Chelsea-Arsenal, City-ManU.. The NHL could have something special there, in addition to having another straw in that milkshake.

As for the "Hockey is our game", it kind of is Canada's game. Until the rest of the world really gives hockey a earnest effort in terms of sizeable investment and participation numbers things won't really change. I do hope that things trend in the right, er, international direction.

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01-18-2012, 04:20 AM
  #102
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the fact of the matter is, when tickets cost almost nothing, the numbers in the arena don't matter, and when the television draw is nothing, that doesn't help
ahhhh...another excuse, with absolutely no merit, designed to diminish the accomplishments of a southern market.

according to this link, that i will provide, the panthers individual ticket prices were higher than the following franchises in 09-10

washington capitals
detroit red wings
san jose sharks
los angeles kings
anaheim ducks
buffalo sabres
colorado avalanche
dallas stars
columbus blue jackets
tampa bay lightning
st. louis blues
nashville predators
new jersey devils
phoenix coyotes

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/inde...95/119-2008-09



while these numbers are two years old, i doubt the panthers have fallen behind to the point that their ticket prices are laughably under-valued. likely far from the contrary, actually, if you bothered to watch the video, yormark even says that slashing ticket prices is not a way to try and build your brand.


so again, you trolls have no facts to back up your negative nancy claims. all you have are misguided/false hopes that the panthers are failing when you couldn't be further from the truth.

get lost.

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01-18-2012, 07:05 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
ahhhh...another excuse, with absolutely no merit, designed to diminish the accomplishments of a southern market.

according to this link, that i will provide, the panthers individual ticket prices were higher than the following franchises in 09-10

washington capitals
detroit red wings
san jose sharks
los angeles kings
anaheim ducks
buffalo sabres
colorado avalanche
dallas stars
columbus blue jackets
tampa bay lightning
st. louis blues
nashville predators
new jersey devils
phoenix coyotes

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/inde...95/119-2008-09



while these numbers are two years old, i doubt the panthers have fallen behind to the point that their ticket prices are laughably under-valued. likely far from the contrary, actually, if you bothered to watch the video, yormark even says that slashing ticket prices is not a way to try and build your brand.


so again, you trolls have no facts to back up your negative nancy claims. all you have are misguided/false hopes that the panthers are failing when you couldn't be further from the truth.

get lost.
well the real question remains, how many deals are in there? weren't they talking about that fanzone that included food and other crap for like 45 bucks. Thought that was florida, and regardless of how you want to spell it out, yea it might be a successful market, but terrible management has ****ed it over hard duh... it's like toronto with basketball, life would be great if they ever made the playoffs

you fudge things a little bit, we fudge things a little bit, it's all in good fun, honestly i don't give a **** about Florida(in terms of whether it stays or not), they're a **** team with a ****** lease in a market that doesn't really care, according to tv ratings at least(you can't dispute that one), however what I do want is for phoenix to move, I really don;t care if Florida moves, i'd love to see them in the playoffs again, and seeing as they've finally learned how to draft who knows.


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01-18-2012, 08:25 AM
  #104
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the fact of the matter is, when tickets cost almost nothing, the numbers in the arena don't matter, and when the television draw is nothing, that doesn't help
How can you win with people like this?

A team is having some success on and off the ice after years of mediocrity, and yet people still proceed to **** talk the franchise to death.

One would think that people would be happy when teams in southern marks show some potential. I guess not.

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01-18-2012, 09:18 AM
  #105
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How can you win with people like this?

A team is having some success on and off the ice after years of mediocrity, and yet people still proceed to **** talk the franchise to death.

One would think that people would be happy when teams in southern marks show some potential. I guess not.
I'm a huge fan of Dallas and Carolina(which is actually seriously growing hockey in both states) and any of them in Cali, I don't think Florida needs to move, but i'm sick of the apologists pointing to facts that are actually somewhat distorted, given the number of deals and family packs that exist in southern markets. Tallon took a massive gamble and it seems to have worked out a bit, but that's not going to make fans happy when markets like Florida only fill the arena when good teams that people want to see are in town. When you watch penguins vs panthers in florida, it's a penguins home game, leafs vs panthers, leafs home game, this applies to at least 7-8 teams, that's not a good sign for how well you're doing in your market despite the fact you may be making money(which they aren't btw)

A lot of Florida's problems are bad management but that's not our fault in Canada, it's people who don't care enough about Florida hockey's fault

You have bettman saying that Winnipeg will fail if people don't pay top dollar and sell out every night but then no one cares when teams like florida are garbage and not selling out

http://www.litterboxcats.com/2010/5/...something-more

sounds like things are really going great, yes it's a 2 year old article, but i'm going point on point with the previous posters point about ticket prices

On top of that, i can't find anymore numbers because of SOPA/PIPA Protests, btw if you're american get on that ****, call your congressman and senator

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01-18-2012, 09:27 AM
  #106
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well the real question remains, how many deals are in there? weren't they talking about that fanzone that included food and other crap for like 45 bucks. Thought that was florida, and regardless of how you want to spell it out, yea it might be a successful market, but terrible management has ****ed it over hard duh... it's like toronto with basketball, life would be great if they ever made the playoffs

you fudge things a little bit, we fudge things a little bit, it's all in good fun, honestly i don't give a **** about Florida(in terms of whether it stays or not), they're a **** team with a ****** lease in a market that doesn't really care, according to tv ratings at least(you can't dispute that one), however what I do want is for phoenix to move, I really don;t care if Florida moves, i'd love to see them in the playoffs again, and seeing as they've finally learned how to draft who knows.
Actually you can. The Panthers audience is in 3 counties (Broward, Miami Dade, and West Palm Beach). They probably only took ratings from one of those counties and called it a day. I don't find 3k viewers or whatever it was very credible at all. Especially when WPB loves hockey.


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01-18-2012, 11:10 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Boooooth10 View Post
Actually you can. The Panthers audience is in 3 counties (Broward, Miami Dade, and West Palm Beach). They probably only took ratings from one of those counties and called it a day. I don't find 3k viewers or whatever it was very credible at all. Especially when WPB loves hockey.
now who's inventing conspiracy theories, you might be right, but I don't see why they would misrepresent that, you'd expect yormak to be calling ******** if it were untruth

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01-18-2012, 11:20 AM
  #108
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Just to save anyone else the effort, from that "source":

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(Source: Team Marketing Report)

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Old
01-18-2012, 12:01 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Boooooth10 View Post
Actually you can. The Panthers audience is in 3 counties (Broward, Miami Dade, and West Palm Beach). They probably only took ratings from one of those counties and called it a day. I don't find 3k viewers or whatever it was very credible at all. Especially when WPB loves hockey.
I read an article somewhere, i forget where, that said Palm beach county's viewership rating of the panthers was 3 to 4 times higher than broward county.

And yes the numbers reported display only the viewership of broward county. A better estimate is all the entire geographic region that the Florida Panthers are broadcasted in. The state is sliced bascially in half between lightning broadcasts and panthers broadcasts.

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01-18-2012, 12:35 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by koala72 View Post
How can you win with people like this?
You cant', just remind yourself of this....

"Whenever I see an old lady slip & fall on a wet sidewalk, my first instinct is to laugh...
then I think, wait a minute, if I was an ant living down there,
I wouldnt think it was very funny at all".

Jack Handy

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WARNING! DANGER! WARNING! DANGER!
TMR Alert! TMR Alert! TMR Alert!
TMR Alert! TMR Alert! TMR Alert!
TMR Alert! TMR Alert! TMR Alert!
TMR Alert! TMR Alert! TMR Alert!
Uhh ohhh. Incoming. Duck&Cover Kiddies!. This is NOT a Drill!!...

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Old
01-19-2012, 02:27 AM
  #111
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well the real question remains, how many deals are in there? weren't they talking about that fanzone that included food and other crap for like 45 bucks. Thought that was florida, and regardless of how you want to spell it out, yea it might be a successful market, but terrible management has ****ed it over hard duh... it's like toronto with basketball, life would be great if they ever made the playoffs
more excuses trying to distort reality? wouldn't expect less.

those are individual game tickets, IE, no fanzone specials/discounts, those are only for full season ticket packages. so your entire argument is moot.

Quote:
you fudge things a little bit, we fudge things a little bit, it's all in good fun, honestly i don't give a **** about Florida(in terms of whether it stays or not), they're a **** team with a ****** lease in a market that doesn't really care, according to tv ratings at least(you can't dispute that one), however what I do want is for phoenix to move, I really don;t care if Florida moves, i'd love to see them in the playoffs again, and seeing as they've finally learned how to draft who knows.
comments like this just prove you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. you say they have a "**** lease" yet they have as good a lease with broward county as any professional sports organization can possibly hope for. they get ALL revenues from ALL events at the arena. so again, you're just blatantly ignorant when it comes to discussing this.

and as far as the TV ratings "proving" that the south florida market doesn't care about hockey....again, you're wrong. the panthers feed 3 markets - miami, broward, and west palm beach (all of which have a higher population INDIVIDUALLY than winnipeg, ottawa or edmonton)

west palm beach was like top-10 (or 15...whatever it was) in TV ratings for the olympics. the panthers simply have not given people any reason to watch their games. plain and simple. if they didn't suck, people would watch...as you can see with out attendance skyrocketing, especially as of late where we are drawing 18,000-20,000 on a pretty regular basis.

keep trying to act as if you have some sort of case though, it's amusing.

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01-20-2012, 03:19 PM
  #112
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Really?. Then I guess I dont get the joke because I didnt find anything funny about the manner in which Len Barrie & Oren Koules operated in Tampa. Wasnt' even remotely amused with Burke, Gluckstern, Ellman & Moyes in Phoenix. Hicks in Dallas or ASG in Atlanta. The lost decade in Sunrise. In fact quite the contrary. I dont generally laugh at accident scenes, not unless Ive caused them... deliberately.

...as for the rest of your post peter?.
just reporting the facts...you cant make grand statements about the growth of hockey in the south without expecting a reality check.

i guess its just coincidence that all these 'bad owners' are in markets with tv ratings of 3000 homes and such.

there are very easy ways to make all us evil canadians who think the game is not successful in the south to eat a big helping of crow....go to games, pay full price for the tickets, watch them on tv....make your team profitable.....if that happened we would have no retort.

until then pretending hockey is popular in miami is ridiculous.

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01-20-2012, 03:49 PM
  #113
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I'm originally from Winnipeg, but I live in South Florida and one thing I could never understand is why so many of my countrymen hate seeing hockey grow in new markets. I for one enjoy going to Panthers games and for those who say no one here cares about hockey. I would bet dollars to donuts that none of you actually live here. I do live here and I see whats going on. More rinks are being built, the number of registered players here is way up, I'm starting to see Panthers signs on billboards everywhere. Slowly but surely interest is going up but I guess none of that matters according to some of these "elitists"

What happened in Atlanta and whats happening in Phoenix has nothing to do with anything regarding the Panthers. Those teams are/were in the mess that they're in because of horrible ownership and poor planning. The Panthers are turning the corner. Why people continue to s**t on them is beyond me.

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01-20-2012, 06:16 PM
  #114
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just reporting the facts...you cant make grand statements about the growth of hockey in the south without expecting a reality check.

i guess its just coincidence that all these 'bad owners' are in markets with tv ratings of 3000 homes and such.

there are very easy ways to make all us evil canadians who think the game is not successful in the south to eat a big helping of crow....go to games, pay full price for the tickets, watch them on tv....make your team profitable.....if that happened we would have no retort.

until then pretending hockey is popular in miami is ridiculous.
Nothing "Grand" about my statements peter. Believe me, I do know how to make an Entrance & be Grand when required, as in being paid to do so, but no, not here on a frikin chat board.

Point 2, or deuces if you prefer?, no, its not just "coincidental" that lousy ownership = anemic TV ratings in these markets. Youve answered your own question there, or was it rhetrorical to begin with. See, Im a little slow in that department at times, but no matter. Next.

... yes, that is correct. If the NHL, the Leafs, Sens, Habs, Jets, Oil, Flames & Nucks had their way you would be eating Crow & Roadkill because its all youd be able to afford after they get done with charging you by the minute to watch them on TV or on your handheld wireless devices; at the gate, to use the washrooms, for toilet paper & soap if they could get away with it.

No ones suggesting hockeys wildly popular in South Florida, Tampa, Phoenix, Dallas or the South. Clearly it isnt... Not yet, but it will be. And when your first line Centers' a guy from Hollywood Florida or Birmingham Alabama & pots the winner in the 3rd OT Period in a Game 7 SC Final wearing a Jets Jersey, why, you'll thank me Mr. Sullivan.

Oh yes you will.

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01-21-2012, 04:19 AM
  #115
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I'm originally from Winnipeg, but I live in South Florida and one thing I could never understand is why so many of my countrymen hate seeing hockey grow in new markets. I for one enjoy going to Panthers games and for those who say no one here cares about hockey. I would bet dollars to donuts that none of you actually live here. I do live here and I see whats going on. More rinks are being built, the number of registered players here is way up, I'm starting to see Panthers signs on billboards everywhere. Slowly but surely interest is going up but I guess none of that matters according to some of these "elitists"

What happened in Atlanta and whats happening in Phoenix has nothing to do with anything regarding the Panthers. Those teams are/were in the mess that they're in because of horrible ownership and poor planning. The Panthers are turning the corner. Why people continue to s**t on them is beyond me.
do you think your opinion would be different if you hadn't ever visited this area and seen firsthand that it can't work?

i ask this because, most (if not all) of those responding here are completely ignorant. they know nothing about this area, this market as a whole. they speculate and attack because they see some empty seats on TV and negative propaganda from the canadian media and act as if they have some sort of clue when they, obviously, do not.

if only everyone could come down here and see that hockey will work, this garbage would stop....but alas, they won't, and it won't and we'll likely have to keep putting up with the ignorant garbage for a while.

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01-21-2012, 04:23 AM
  #116
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Nothing "Grand" about my statements peter. Believe me, I do know how to make an Entrance & be Grand when required, as in being paid to do so, but no, not here on a frikin chat board.

Point 2, or deuces if you prefer?, no, its not just "coincidental" that lousy ownership = anemic TV ratings in these markets. Youve answered your own question there, or was it rhetrorical to begin with. See, Im a little slow in that department at times, but no matter. Next.

... yes, that is correct. If the NHL, the Leafs, Sens, Habs, Jets, Oil, Flames & Nucks had their way you would be eating Crow & Roadkill because its all youd be able to afford after they get done with charging you by the minute to watch them on TV or on your handheld wireless devices; at the gate, to use the washrooms, for toilet paper & soap if they could get away with it.

No ones suggesting hockeys wildly popular in South Florida, Tampa, Phoenix, Dallas or the South. Clearly it isnt... Not yet, but it will be. And when your first line Centers' a guy from Hollywood Florida or Birmingham Alabama & pots the winner in the 3rd OT Period in a Game 7 SC Final wearing a Jets Jersey, why, you'll thank me Mr. Sullivan.

Oh yes you will.

this post reminds me of an article i read about a 13-14 yr old playing for a local team....an opposing coach (from a team that wasn't from our area...traveling teams.) said he would put that kid up against anyone in the entire country. he went on to score 4 goals in the game and his team won 6-2.

i think it was from the sun-sentinel, and am too lazy to try and dig it up. i just remember the kids last name was Hernandez. not trying to say this kid from Miami with a hispanic last name is the next Sidney Crosby....but this is the point of hockey in the south/new markets. Grow the game, and the only way to grow it is to be patient and let it grow through the next generation.

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01-21-2012, 12:39 PM
  #117
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Grow the game, and the only way to grow it is to be patient and let it grow through the next generation.
Absolutely, combined with administrative & financial support from the NHL & its' franchisee's in conjunction with the NHLPA, minor league franchises, the NCAA & Hockey USA. Just imagine how much better the game could be if naturally gifted athletes opted for hockey instead of football or whatever throughout the South, Southwest, Florida & California. Rather than just sitting back & waiting for it to happen through osmosis, a slow trickle down effect, it behooves the league to take the lead & kick it up several notches. Something they shouldve instigated way back in 1967 instead of simply getting "lucky" with "Miracles on Ice". Youve gotta do a lot more than just parachute teams into virgin markets & they know it. Abrogation of their collective responsibilities, often resulting in the complete failure of any given market, breeching the covenants & promises made to municipalities, fans, broadcast sponsors, you name it?...


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01-21-2012, 06:55 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
this post reminds me of an article i read about a 13-14 yr old playing for a local team....an opposing coach (from a team that wasn't from our area...traveling teams.) said he would put that kid up against anyone in the entire country. he went on to score 4 goals in the game and his team won 6-2.

i think it was from the sun-sentinel, and am too lazy to try and dig it up. i just remember the kids last name was Hernandez. not trying to say this kid from Miami with a hispanic last name is the next Sidney Crosby....but this is the point of hockey in the south/new markets. Grow the game, and the only way to grow it is to be patient and let it grow through the next generation.
Sometime ago, Miami New Times had an article about youth hockey, teams and it mentioned that some of the kids have received scholarships to colleges, not tier-1 but anyways. Slowly making progress.

JOL

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01-21-2012, 08:30 PM
  #119
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Sometime ago, Miami New Times had an article about youth hockey, teams and it mentioned that some of the kids have received scholarships to colleges, not tier-1 but anyways. Slowly making progress.

JOL
The NCAA has produced close to 300 players currently employed by the NHL, up by app. 38% from 10 years ago. Its a terrific program in terms of development, as they play about half to a third less games than Major Junior with triple the number of practices, coaching techniques, basics, the lost arts. Its not as fast nor as physical as Major Junior, which IMO is a good thing, as the latter is much more a Win at all costs mini McNHL whose mandate to "develop" players is compromised with business concerns, 70-80 game seasons, travel & school, limiting practice.

When you see Goaltenders drafted out of the CHL who cant skate or control a pretty basic rebound, forwards & defencemen who dont even know how to execute a backhander or any of the "hockey crafts" once so plentiful, then you gotta figure somethings busted. Size, speed, physicality yes; but very little hockey sense. Major Junior in Canada doesnt watch it, the NCAA's going to continue to eat away at the Drafts and the elite Canadian kids will choose that route instead. Some already have (Dryden, Kariya); and you dont have to look very far to find some incredible/polished talent coming out of Division 1 & 2 (Thomas, Kesler etc) schools....

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01-22-2012, 11:27 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
do you think your opinion would be different if you hadn't ever visited this area and seen firsthand that it can't work?

i ask this because, most (if not all) of those responding here are completely ignorant. they know nothing about this area, this market as a whole. they speculate and attack because they see some empty seats on TV and negative propaganda from the canadian media and act as if they have some sort of clue when they, obviously, do not.
You know, its really hard to say. I know a lot of Canadiens (including myself) were upset when the Jets and Nords left. I think that is where a lot of the resentment for sunbelt teams from Canadians stems from. Its also one of the reasons I'm kind of hoping Phoenix ends up relocating to Quebec (nothing against Phoenix but I think the fans there have been dragged through the mud and enough is enough) so we can finally stop hearing about how Canada needs more teams.

Now that I've really thought about it, I don't think my opinion of hockey in southern markets would really be different if I didn't live here. I like seeing Americans becoming more and more interested in our game, especially from places where it was thought to be unheard of a generation ago. Its good for the sport and more interested people = more players which = more competition which = better hockey.

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01-24-2012, 08:14 AM
  #121
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Now that I've really thought about it, I don't think my opinion of hockey in southern markets would really be different if I didn't live here. I like seeing Americans becoming more and more interested in our game, especially from places where it was thought to be unheard of a generation ago. Its good for the sport and more interested people = more players which = more competition which = better hockey.
Here's more about grass root ice hockey in Florida (south):
http://fshl.cc/cms/

and Miami-Herald's story about Miami-Dade's team:

"One thing working in their favor is the early-season success of the Panthers, who lead the Eastern Conferenceís Southeast Division."

But then black cloud:
"However, a factor that negatively affects recruiting is the cost to play the sport. Itís $250 an hour for rink time, and cheap skates run $300. With teenage boys, thereís also the concern that they will grow out of their uniforms and equipment."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/2...-ice-with.html

I'm not sure how much price of electricity has gone up, but in future it will be higher. At some point these facilities should start using solar panels etc.

JOL

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01-24-2012, 08:38 AM
  #122
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At this thread still being carried on, at the northerners who think they know when (as I said earlier) they just don't have a damn clue, and to those defending the area and the markets.

Don't give a damn whether you like the game here or not, grow up! The game is loved here, as it is wherever it goes.

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01-24-2012, 08:42 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by marillion-fan View Post
You know, its really hard to say. I know a lot of Canadiens (including myself) were upset when the Jets and Nords left. I think that is where a lot of the resentment for sunbelt teams from Canadians stems from. Its also one of the reasons I'm kind of hoping Phoenix ends up relocating to Quebec (nothing against Phoenix but I think the fans there have been dragged through the mud and enough is enough) so we can finally stop hearing about how Canada needs more teams.

Now that I've really thought about it, I don't think my opinion of hockey in southern markets would really be different if I didn't live here. I like seeing Americans becoming more and more interested in our game, especially from places where it was thought to be unheard of a generation ago. Its good for the sport and more interested people = more players which = more competition which = better hockey.
Then why don't they hate Colorado? To me, and many others, they're livid with Phoenix and all the southern teams, but Phoenix is the only one who received a former Canadian team. Quebec went to Colorado. I've never once heard a bad thing said about that team on these boards. Is it because they won the Cup right away? I'm sure there's resentment for the team being there, but let's face, it's in a winter area.

Iow, it's an extremely poor excuse to dislike southern teams. Any and all of the "reasons" northerners use to hammer southern teams are just beyond stupid. We live in an age when you can have ice in the summer. Deal with it.

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01-24-2012, 08:43 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by jol View Post
Here's more about grass root ice hockey in Florida (south):
http://fshl.cc/cms/

and Miami-Herald's story about Miami-Dade's team:

"One thing working in their favor is the early-season success of the Panthers, who lead the Eastern Conferenceís Southeast Division."

But then black cloud:
"However, a factor that negatively affects recruiting is the cost to play the sport. Itís $250 an hour for rink time, and cheap skates run $300. With teenage boys, thereís also the concern that they will grow out of their uniforms and equipment."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/2...-ice-with.html

I'm not sure how much price of electricity has gone up, but in future it will be higher. At some point these facilities should start using solar panels etc.

JOL
While I agree, I don't understand what the point of bringing this up is. Are you saying that since we don't have frozen ponds that the game is more expensive here than it is up north, thus...what?

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01-25-2012, 09:21 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
While I agree, I don't understand what the point of bringing this up is. Are you saying that since we don't have frozen ponds that the game is more expensive here than it is up north, thus...what?
No, just saying that there's upside and downside, game is more popular in junior levels, but to managing growth it will be very challenging (costs). Maybe synthetic ice will help, then you could play outdoors. During the holidays downtown Fort Lauderdale had synthetic icesheets for skating, i didn't have a chance to test it.

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