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How good was Bob Probert? (Awesome Tribute Video @ Post #1)

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Old
01-23-2012, 09:13 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
Not at all. Schultz, in the enforcer role, was the most effective tough guy in the history of the game. He was the most effective on-ice policeman.



I get what you're saying with Gillies, but Tocchet? C'mon man. Go look at his fight card and tell me he's not a heavyweight. And since when does size decide who's a heavyweight fighter? Engelland, Domi, and Berube were/are all smaller than Tocchet and wouldn't you consider them heavyweights?
Youre in the minority on the first part, Probert is pretty much unanimously considered the best enforcer of all time. Not only as the top fighter, but he could also play unlike 99% of the guys who are even close to comparable to him.

As for the second part, Tocchet broke into the league scrapping and had 2 seasons with 20 fights but after that he averaged around 8, not exactly close to a guy like Probie who regulary put up around 20 a season against the absolute toughest players and hardly lost.

Tocchet fought Probert once, got his ass kicked and resorted to headbutting him a couple times cause he was so outmatched lol

I dont really think Schultz 7 year career playing in an era with less tough guys and being the best matches up with Proberts 16 year career in the toughest era of hockey when it came to enforcers

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Old
01-23-2012, 09:18 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
Not at all. Schultz, in the enforcer role, was the most effective tough guy in the history of the game. He was the most effective on-ice policeman.



I get what you're saying with Gillies, but Tocchet? C'mon man. Go look at his fight card and tell me he's not a heavyweight. And since when does size decide who's a heavyweight fighter? Engelland, Domi, and Berube were/are all smaller than Tocchet and wouldn't you consider them heavyweights?
Probert would likely beat Schultz 9 times out of 10.

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01-23-2012, 09:38 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
Not at all. Schultz, in the enforcer role, was the most effective tough guy in the history of the game. He was the most effective on-ice policeman.



I get what you're saying with Gillies, but Tocchet? C'mon man. Go look at his fight card and tell me he's not a heavyweight. And since when does size decide who's a heavyweight fighter? Engelland, Domi, and Berube were/are all smaller than Tocchet and wouldn't you consider them heavyweights?
Schultz was most certainly not the best enforcer ever... that's your bias talking. I'd like to say Tie Domi was the best enforcer in history but that simply isn't true even though I love him.

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01-23-2012, 11:04 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
I get what you're saying with Gillies, but Tocchet? C'mon man. Go look at his fight card and tell me he's not a heavyweight. And since when does size decide who's a heavyweight fighter? Engelland, Domi, and Berube were/are all smaller than Tocchet and wouldn't you consider them heavyweights?
You're right, Tocchet did fight the HW's, but his record against them is nowhere near as impressive. If you look at his fight card, he mostly fought other tough MW's... and did very well. Hell, his most common opponent was Scott Stevens, who was no pushover at all. But still, you see a lot of Diduck's, May's, Hunter's and so forth... and no Twist's or Grimson's or even Domi's. He fought Probert once, and lost... Kocur once, and lost, Barry Beck once, and lost.

Size does matter to the extent it effects strength and leverage. You can work around it (Domi was an expert at getting opponents to land punches on the back of his head, while spinning them so that the punches lost power because they were punching into the spin), but all else being even, a small guy is at a disadvantage fighting a big guy.

Look at Probert's fight card compared to Tocchet's and you will see the difference between Probert and one of the toughest players ever to play the game.

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01-23-2012, 11:29 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
Not at all. Schultz, in the enforcer role, was the most effective tough guy in the history of the game. He was the most effective on-ice policeman.
Schultz was a bad ass, but he also had Moose Dupont, Battleship Kelley, etc., along for the ride. Probert had titantic battles with Domi, Grimson & McSorely & was certifiably nuts. Not to mention, he had 2 inches & about 30 pounds on Schultz. I'll take Probert any day of the week....

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01-23-2012, 12:37 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by edog37 View Post
Schultz was a bad ass, but he also had Moose Dupont, Battleship Kelley, etc., along for the ride. Probert had titantic battles with Domi, Grimson & McSorely & was certifiably nuts. Not to mention, he had 2 inches & about 30 pounds on Schultz. I'll take Probert any day of the week....
I think the Bob Kelly Schultz played with was called the Hound. Battleship(Bob) played with the Pens. Had twenty goals one season. His name should be in this mix. Schultz was a wild man, but not really that tough. Terry Oreilly used to hand him his behind.

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01-23-2012, 12:58 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Probert; Definition: One of the top 3 fighters in the league that can play on the 1st line and score 20 goals.

One of the best "enforcers" to ever play.

He'll never be Clark but he's ahead of Domi.
Even then at least domi was a solid fourth liner, unlike most of the enforcers in today's game

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01-23-2012, 01:01 PM
  #33
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Guys like Clark Gillies, Wendell Calrk and Rick Tocchet were really good Players that were also good fighters, but they werent on there to fight, they werent enforcers

guys like Probert & Odjick were guys that were enforcers but could also play.
probert in his prime was far and away the best of those type of players in my opinion

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Old
01-24-2012, 09:19 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ogie Goldthorpe View Post
Tocchet was a far better scorer, and although a good fighter in his own right, I wouldn't really qualify him as a "heavyweight"... just not quite big enough. He fought significantly less than Probie too, although that was probably a product of not wanting to have a 50 goal scorer sitting in the penalty box all the time. See also, Clark and Neely.
Clark never had 50, and he only had 40 once.

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01-24-2012, 02:56 PM
  #35
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Definitely an incredible fighter. However, he was terrible at smuggling cocaine.

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Old
01-25-2012, 08:08 AM
  #36
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Berube beat Probert 2 out of 4 and drew on a 3rd.

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01-25-2012, 08:45 AM
  #37
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There were some great fighters to say the least, and Probie wasn't afraid of anyone. He lost his fair share but he could throw them with anyone. He was also a very skilled player who contributed in more than one aspect of the game. As for strictly fighting, I would say Tony Twist may be the best.

One thing I know for sure is that Probert is still loved by any Wings fan I have talked to. RIP Probie.

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01-25-2012, 11:40 AM
  #38
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In my mind Probert was the best mix of skill and toughness ever in the game.

He was absolutely fearless and absolutely feared.

he was conversely skilled enough to play with the best players and not drag them down, even to contribute.

Probert would absolutely destroy the modern league.

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01-25-2012, 11:43 AM
  #39
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Probert is simply THE KING!

No one can come close to him; even if he lost some fights he would come back for revenge and boy he would get it big time (Domi, Ewen, Crowder...)
He was the top dog for years in the NHL's toughest era, fought everyone and beat everyone, including the second toughest fighter ever Dave Brown and crazy mofos like Gaetz. I think he only missed Odjick in his fight card, because he was suspended.
He was a good player and an excellent enforcer (Yzerman without him patrolling hte ice wouldn't have been the same player), in his role I can't think of someone else better than him.


Last edited by Fighter: 01-27-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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Old
01-27-2012, 04:50 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
Not at all. Schultz, in the enforcer role, was the most effective tough guy in the history of the game. He was the most effective on-ice policeman.

Bull****.

The only thing that made the flyers "tough" was the entire team would jump in on every fight and the NHL let them get away with it. That's the reason that the third man in rule was instituted. There wasn't one fighter on that team that was top 25 of all time, let alone number one. And Dave Schultz wrote in his book that he was scared to death to fight Nick Fotiu and would never come near Fotiu on the ice.

That's your tough guy.

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01-28-2012, 09:00 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Bull****.

The only thing that made the flyers "tough" was the entire team would jump in on every fight and the NHL let them get away with it. That's the reason that the third man in rule was instituted. There wasn't one fighter on that team that was top 25 of all time, let alone number one. And Dave Schultz wrote in his book that he was scared to death to fight Nick Fotiu and would never come near Fotiu on the ice.

That's your tough guy.
LOL. You have got to be a bitter Rags fan. I personally believe the 80s Flyers were tougher, but saying that the Bullies weren't tough and that Schultz isn't top 25 makes me question your sanity.

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01-28-2012, 11:44 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
LOL. You have got to be a bitter Rags fan. I personally believe the 80s Flyers were tougher, but saying that the Bullies weren't tough and that Schultz isn't top 25 makes me question your sanity.
True. Not just anyone can lay a beating on Dale Rolfe.

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01-30-2012, 11:16 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Kenny Bania View Post
True. Not just anyone can lay a beating on Dale Rolfe.
As if Dale Rolfe is the only Rag who's had his arse kicked in by a Flyer. The Flyers have been pushing the Rags around for the past 40 years.

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Old
01-30-2012, 11:19 AM
  #44
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And back on topic, while Probert did have one 60 point year and a few 40 point years, these years were during a period when scoring was at an all-time high with numerous guys getting 100. I don't think it's fair to call him the best combination of skill and toughness. I honestly would have to say that that one goes to Lindros. While I think it would have been a decent fight, had Probie ever gone after Lindros, I feel like Kordic and LaCroix would've collectively murdered him.

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01-30-2012, 02:56 PM
  #45
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Although I prefer Twist, Probert was more consistent in his fights, was a way better all-around player and had a longer career. However, if you needed a goon's face broken, Twist was the guy.

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01-30-2012, 06:17 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
And back on topic, while Probert did have one 60 point year and a few 40 point years, these years were during a period when scoring was at an all-time high with numerous guys getting 100. I don't think it's fair to call him the best combination of skill and toughness. I honestly would have to say that that one goes to Lindros. While I think it would have been a decent fight, had Probie ever gone after Lindros, I feel like Kordic and LaCroix would've collectively murdered him.
LOL, Twist, Odjick and McSorley all went after Lindros and nobody did jcksht to them. Why don't you take off the homer glasses and stop pimping ex-flyers nonstop.

BTW, Probie was absolutely the best enforcer of all-time, not the best fighter maybe, but he would go with anybody, anytime, anywhere, didn't hesitate to go after guys below his "weightclass" if it was necessary or even if it wasn't. He would also play mean and nasty ie. run the goalie if he felt like it and he was actually a pretty good player. Twist was a more devastating fighter, but that was all he could do - the guy could hardly skate.

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Old
01-31-2012, 05:43 PM
  #47
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Lots of quotes on his fighting abilities came out at the time of his unfortunate early passing.

My favorite was probably this and speaks to his fighting skills.

Quote:
Kronk boxing founder Emanuel Steward, who guided Hilmer Kenty, Tommy Hearns and Milton McCrory, among others, to titles, would have loved to have trained and managed former Red Wings enforcer Bob Probert, who died suddenly Monday at age 45. Steward gave Probert and fellow Bruise Brother Joey Kocur private sparring lessons during their hockey careers.

"He could have been a world champion," Steward said Tuesday. "He had the coordination, reflexes and toughness. He was also extraordinarily humble and gracious. He was a tough guy. He was afraid of nobody, including heavyweights I trained in the gym. I taught him to tighten up his punches. Make them short and hard. Oh, my God, dead at 45. It's just too young to die."
That guy knows a thing or two about fighters.

Full article

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2010...y_emmanue.html

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Old
02-01-2012, 11:29 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Nab77 View Post
LOL, Twist, Odjick and McSorley all went after Lindros and nobody did jcksht to them. Why don't you take off the homer glasses and stop pimping ex-flyers nonstop.
When I say "go after" I mean take a run at or jump. If that happened, then yes, the Flyers' enforcers would have responded. But an outright challenge? There's no need to really to protect Lindros as he could hold his own with almost anybody. Twist and Lindros came close to fighting and Lindros was very willing but the refs wouldn't allow it. Lindros and McSorley had clean fight, in which Lindros controlled at first but eventually, McSorley's experience allowed him to overcome the Big E. Also, when Odjick suckered Lindros, Kordic fought him later that game and Odjick *****ed out. Kordic also cut Brashear later that game so I don't try and say nobody did anything.

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Old
02-01-2012, 11:41 AM
  #49
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Probie had all kinds of skill. Hell of a fighter and could play good hockey too. His style of fighting was great in the way he could time out his punches, pull guys in and drive them so every punch counted big.

He was smart about it too. He prepared for his scraps. He studied other tough guys.

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Old
02-04-2012, 03:12 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Kryb View Post
As if Dale Rolfe is the only Rag who's had his arse kicked in by a Flyer. The Flyers have been pushing the Rags around for the past 40 years.

For the past 10 they've been doing it on their *****.

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