Probert - one of my all time favorite Red Wings...His book is a good read - def worth checking it out...Made an interesting comment on how much $$$ he'd make in todays game when ya consider how there is a depletion of players in the "power forward" mold (as in 20 plus goals with 150 plus pims).
To say Berube "shouldn't be anywhere near a best fighter discussion" knocks Probert down another few pegs -- very similar guys. Pretty much an equal amount of fights against much of the same opposition and with basically the same sort of W-L record -- and as I mentioned Berube was better than Probert head-to-head.
As far as Kocur goes, since you like putting up clips, go ahead and put up a clip of Kocur's fight vs Dave Richter. It pretty much puts to rest any discussion of Kocur in a best fighter discussion -- hard puncher, not a great fighter
Glad I changed your name, your post is all kinds of dumb and so disingenuous that I honestly think you are just a nonsensical troll.
Lol wow Kocur lost a fight, heavens to Bettsy. Players I have spoken to, that played in the NHL during this time, say those 2 to a man, were the consensus toughest, with Kocur getting the nod by most. But I should take your word over them...............yeah ok.
Probert was/is "The King." As far as enforcers are concerned, he is #1 all-time... and no one touches him. Not Wendel Clark... not Schultz... not Twist. No one. As a matter of fact, most "top three" lists are 1) Probert; 2) Behn Wilson; and 3) Dave Brown. Who's #2 and #3 is debatable.
Probert is #1 for a few reasons. When judging fighters, you have to look at:
- Fight Card - His is top three.
- Results - He beat just about everyone he fought.
- Avenging Losses - He lost some too; but he came back to beat guys like Domi, Ewen, D. Brown, and Crowder.
- KO/TKOs - Curran, Nylund, Semenko, D. Brown, McGill, Crowder, Maguire, Grimson, Odgers, Smith, Quintal, Simpson, Kimble, Domi, Parker.
- Enforcing - He was a legendary enforcer. He protected Yzerman. Look no further than --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOI3mwK5YLw
funny thing is on the tribute video there's no clark vs probert.why is that maybe because clark would beat his ass down.close those eye' clarkie and swing.it was fun to watch R.I.P PROBIE
Like Ken Belanger for one. That loss all by itself drops Probert at least 1 place on any all-time list; probably the most lopsided and embarrassing loss ever suffered by an elite heavyweight.
His chin was suspect on more than one occasion -- dropped by Todd Ewen, Morrisette, and Chris Tamer. These guys are not all-time fighters; the last two are run-of-the-mill guys.
Chris Simon gave Probert a lopsided beating. Sandy McCarthy easily beat Probert even after Probert jumped him. Probert was so soundly beaten and embarrassed he resorted to headbutting McCarthy. Troy Crowder manhandled Probert twice -- Probert fans brag up his "revenge" win over Crowder, but don't remember Crowder beat Probert worse than the first beating later in the same game. Paul Laus ragdolled and busted Probert open. Way too many lopsided beatings
Probert is a top 5 guy in DET. In CHI he embarrassed himself more than anything
Man you are ignoring a lot, pretty much any decent list composed has Probie number 1. Taking fight card, longevity, win loss, everything like that, there are some guys you can debate with about it but none that are decisively better. And even the "losses" on Probies fight card usually came with a beating much worse then the previous loss.
You clearly are off your rocker, especially saying probie was a top 5 in Detroit. You take away his Chicago years and its easily Probie number 1
I guess people have different opinions about how head to head fights went, living in Calgary, I go to every flames wings games, saw probie fight berube and sandy live, and saw probie destroy both. (great games those were, also got to see Mccarty fight stern and kruse lots)
Larry Robinson was a great player, but not a great fighter. He might've won the odd fight against a tough guy, but that wasn't his role. Bouchard, Lupien, or Lambert did that. Wendel was a SUPER tough guy, but again, that wasn't his main role. Same with Cam Neely. You don't waste that sort of talent by having them be the team's fighter. Al Secord and Ted Lindsay would be two examples of players that straddled the line between goon and player
Probert was right up there with best. I always thought John Ferguson was one of the best punchers i ever saw. Probert was like that, but bigger and with more boxing skills.
Kocur was a rung below.
Berube shouldn't be anywhere near a best fighter discussion.
Most of the guys you mentioned were never near as prolific. Crowder, Twist, Worrell etc. please, I played with a few of them (not professionally) and they weren't even good beer league players. Every fighter has taken his lumps if he fights 15 + times a season. That means double when said fighter actually fights and doesn't hold on he is dancing with his girlfriend, like some of the above you mention.
That said Probert wasn't the toughest guy on his own team, Kocur was.
Wasn't that berube's rookie season? read the book goon and the writer in there said he heard stories after those two losses berube contemplated another career.. who could blame him. He fought two pretty tough dudes there and he was a rookie... anyways i think the way it should be said is that Shultz made the enforcer position and probert perfected it. Shultz scared the crap out of guys of his generation but they still fought him. Probert scared the crap out of guys in his generation and some of them were very tough. I'm only 28 but from the youtube videos i've seen this is my quick list.. its obviously not the be all end all
I was gonna give them rankings but it would be a **** show of crap flying everywhere. Others can add to that list if they want. I'm sure theres more.