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Best goalie in the AHL?

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Old
10-20-2004, 11:54 PM
  #101
Amen evil king
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What was the deal with Chiodo starting over Fleury in the AHL playoffs last year?

If the stats are telling the truth (and if I'm remembering the stats correctly..), Caron was mediocre to start (maybe 1-1 or 1-2 I think?), Fleury got a chance and played horribly in one game, and then Chiodo came in and won 3 straight to get the Pens through the 1st round and held the goaltending duties for the rest of the playoffs.

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10-21-2004, 12:50 AM
  #102
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As good as he was in October and the beginning of November (2.58 GAA, .920 sv%), he was dismal the rest of the time in the NHL (4.72 GAA .883 sv%).
Incorrect. Fleury still put in many strong performances after November, the team was just playing dismal hockey. It was very common for Caron and Fleury to see 5 breakaways/penalty shots per night.

Fleury had some poor games. One in particular was the one against the Senators where he got yanked, or the one against the Wild where the 2-0 lead was blown. But there were a lot where he turned in a tremendous performance despite giving up 4, maybe 5 goals.

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10-21-2004, 11:44 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Reilly311
you're basing his play just off his numbers. I think you're also forgetting he handed the mighty detroit red wings their first loss of the season. An 18 year old goalie shut down the red wings.
And he proceeded to lose to the Rags twice and Minnesota twice shortly there after. Yeah, he beat the Wings, and he was absolutely incredible during October... but that's all everyone talks about.

He'll be a star, just check out his first month in the league.
He's awesome, remember his first month in the leauge?
Remember when he won ROTM in October?

Hey, that's fine, if October shows how good he is going to be, then you'd have to figure that November on can show the other side of the coin. It's a reality check folks.


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The guy has the quickest legs I've ever seen and will be a star once he gets a better team in front of him. You put him on the Red Wings and he'll win 30+ games easy.
The Red Wings aren't stupid enough (or desperate enough) to play an 18 year old in the NHL, and that BS Hypothesizing is pretty useless in a debate.

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10-21-2004, 11:51 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobv2
Incorrect. Fleury still put in many strong performances after November, the team was just playing dismal hockey. It was very common for Caron and Fleury to see 5 breakaways/penalty shots per night.

Fleury had some poor games. One in particular was the one against the Senators where he got yanked, or the one against the Wild where the 2-0 lead was blown. But there were a lot where he turned in a tremendous performance despite giving up 4, maybe 5 goals.
But isn't that the point?

In those early games, he was turning those games into wins or ties, and only giving up 2 or 3 goals... but he got figured out in a hurry, and it went from 2 or 3 to 5 or 6 very quick.

Is he a good young goalie?

Of course he is... but please stop basing it on 1 month of NHL action. You can't just sit there and say, oh, he had a good month, look at what he can do, or look what he will be.

The fact of the matter is, after about 7 starts, the league figured him out in a big way. So what is a better indication about his future?

The 7 starts where there wasn't much of a scouting report?

Or the starts after, where the players and coaches figured him out (lots of traffic in front of the net, and cash in the numerous rebounds)?

It's just some perspective.

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10-21-2004, 01:04 PM
  #105
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But isn't that the point?
No. You said he sucked after November. I'm saying he didn't.

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The fact of the matter is, after about 7 starts, the league figured him out in a big way. So what is a better indication about his future?

The 7 starts where there wasn't much of a scouting report?

Or the starts after, where the players and coaches figured him out (lots of traffic in front of the net, and cash in the numerous rebounds)?

It's just some perspective.
It had nothing to do with figuring him out, in my opinion. As I previously stated, the team got way worse. I really don't feel like explaining it again.

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10-21-2004, 01:34 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jacobv2
No. You said he sucked after November. I'm saying he didn't.
Sorry man, a GAA well over 4 and a sv% around .880 means the goaltender isn't playing well either. Guys like Luongo and Denis manage to put up decent numbers (like Fleury did early), while playing on terrible teams.

Sure, the team as a whole might not have done as well after October, but it's not like Fleury was still keeping them in games, or playing anywhere near what he did in October (because it's not like they were playing good then either).

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It had nothing to do with figuring him out, in my opinion. As I previously stated, the team got way worse. I really don't feel like explaining it again.
He gave up 4 or more goals in 7 of his last 8 starts, while still facing a similar number of shots. Early in October, he was keeping the Pens in those games (and was winning a few of them to boot).

Sorry man, you aren't going to convince me that his GAA rose a full goal, while his sv% dropped almost 50 points because the team in front of him started playing worse, while he maintained his level of play. At what point is it that Fleury couldn't handle the time he had in the NHL? When is it because Fleury couldn't do it?

These aren't bad things... he was over-matched from day 1... he's 18, it was expected. There is nothing wrong with him not being able to play in the NHL at 18, most goalies, especially now, aren't able to do that.

As for the players not figuring him out, you don't give much credit to the players and coaches in the NHL. They exploited his 2 biggest weaknesses, which were his rebound control, and his puck handling.

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Old
10-21-2004, 02:20 PM
  #107
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You lack reading comprehension skills.

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Sorry man, a GAA well over 4 and a sv% around .880 means the goaltender isn't playing well either.
Guess you didn't watch the games, or else you wouldn't make a statement like that.

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Guys like Luongo and Denis manage to put up decent numbers (like Fleury did early), while playing on terrible teams.
Uhm, Luongo is the best goalie in the league. Even so, he did NOT put up numbers ("like Fleury did early") over the course of a full season. Needless to say, neither did Denis.

For the record, Fleury's numbers early were a GAA under 2.

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Sure, the team as a whole might not have done as well after October,
See, now I KNOW you're missing the point. You actually think the team didn't do as well after October, which would mean that had to do something well IN October. They didn't. They were terrible and they got much, much worse afterwards. As I said, the amount of point-blank chances Fleury saw (during that time his GAA was above 4) per game was absolutely insane. This is the time when people were oohing and ahhing, but still clamoring for the Penguins to send him back down. We know why, because no matter how good he might have been, it can't be beneficial to lose despite turning in a tremendous individual effort, over and over again.

I've never said Fleury stayed consistently solid over the course of the year. There's no question his play slipped as the NHL season went on. But he wasn't "terrible" after mid-November as you keep stating.

Quote:
He gave up 4 or more goals in 7 of his last 8 starts, while still facing a similar number of shots. Early in October, he was keeping the Pens in those games (and was winning a few of them to boot).
That's fine that you base your opinion on the numbers. I taped most of the games you're citing, and I can watch them over again, but my opinion won't change. And since I watched the games and you obviously didn't, I think that makes my opinion a little more important.

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As for the players not figuring him out, you don't give much credit to the players and coaches in the NHL. They exploited his 2 biggest weaknesses, which were his rebound control, and his puck handling.
I can probably count on one hand the number of goals he gave up because he made an error in puckhandling. Rebound control, you say? I would think that the coaches and players are then exploiting the TEAM'S weakness of not clearing the rebounds moreso than they are exploiting Fleury's weakness of leaving them in the slot, wouldn't you say? Because his rebounds were there since day one. I can't imagine that it took NHL coaches and players 2 whole months to figure that one out. Heck, I figured it out after training camp.


Last edited by Jacob: 10-21-2004 at 02:23 PM.
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