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What is a re-tool to you anyway? [In defense of the Goat]

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Old
01-14-2012, 12:48 PM
  #151
WhiskeySeven
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Originally Posted by HeShootsHeScores View Post
I agree with the OP on every single point.

Not saying PG is the best. Just saying he isn't half as bad as some people like to repeat all day here.
I didn't even mention Gauthier's amateur dealings, which have been good-to-great as well.

I was so mad last night, this thread literally attracted the scum of hfboards out of the woodwork. I wish a mod would just delete their posts so we can have a sensible discussion based on FACTS and not hearsay.

buddhasmoke1 in the trade thread is trying to fight the good fight as well but the rabble isn't having it. I can understand not liking the trade for whatever reason but the timing and "not shopping him around" excuse is BULL.

You can't criticize anyone on LIES AND NON-TRUTHS.

The fans here are sick of losing but don't seem to remember that defensive, loser coach who destroyed team moral and played boring, losing hockey for half the season. What's his name again?

Hurr durr fire GAUTHIER.

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Old
01-14-2012, 01:09 PM
  #152
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There is a very distinct difference between wanting and expecting.

Becoming the fan of a team based on results is exactly what a band wagon fan is.

As a fan, you certainly want them to win. Expecting them to constantly be dominant has nothing to do with being a fan.
This. I don't get it's so hard for people to understand that as a Habs fan, I want them to win the cup every year, but don't think it's reasonable in any way to expect that to happen. Personally, parity is one reason I'm such a big fan of the NHL, but it makes building a cup contender all that more difficult.

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01-14-2012, 01:10 PM
  #153
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Goat means Greatest of All-Time, right?


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01-14-2012, 01:12 PM
  #154
Et le But
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I didn't even mention Gauthier's amateur dealings, which have been good-to-great as well.

I was so mad last night, this thread literally attracted the scum of hfboards out of the woodwork. I wish a mod would just delete their posts so we can have a sensible discussion based on FACTS and not hearsay.

buddhasmoke1 in the trade thread is trying to fight the good fight as well but the rabble isn't having it. I can understand not liking the trade for whatever reason but the timing and "not shopping him around" excuse is BULL.

You can't criticize anyone on LIES AND NON-TRUTHS.

The fans here are sick of losing but don't seem to remember that defensive, loser coach who destroyed team moral and played boring, losing hockey for half the season. What's his name again?

Hurr durr fire GAUTHIER.
The responses this thread got drove me to drink last night.

Well not really, but it gave me more motivation to finish the bottle of wine.

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01-14-2012, 03:14 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Can you clearly, and succinctly make logical, sound arguments against Gauthier's moves?

Try not to use the words "classless" or "classy" though. I'm here waiting.

btw: I totally srs and not being a dic at all lol i dunno maybe i just cray
- deciding a few games into the season that you need to change your coaching staff, after having all summer to evaluate them and decide on your direction, and then doing so by firing an assistant hours before a game, reflects not just a lack of respect, but also a lack of forethought.

- trading an expiring contract on a serviceable 5-6dman, for another serviceable 5-6dman who is also a strong one-dimensional pp player (but who was playing so poorly as to be a healthy scratch on one of the worst teams in the league) but is signed to a more expensive deal extending 2 extra years, is a bad move... doing so and not getting anything else in return from the GM/team that was desperate and vocal about trying to move him, is a terrible move

- firing a head coach, a few weeks after firing his hand-picked assistant against his wishes (instead of firing both in the first place), and a few games after making the above bad decision (Kaberle), which was made purposefully to improve the area the team was most suffering from (PP), without letting the experienced HC have time to properly adjust to the new addition... which was only a necessary addition due to your (GM) failure in addressing that roster need (PP strong Dman) in the offseason, was a bad move... and I had no particular fondness for JM as our HC, but timing of roster/coaching decisions are almost as important as the actual people you bring in/move out.

- hiring a uni-lingual head coach, and then proceeding to throw him under the bus... forget about class, that was just stupid & created a huge distraction for a team already struggling and not needing any extra excuses for poor on-ice execution.

- trading away a player of Cammy's "potential" without fully exploring what the market would value him at (if only to use that as leverage) is bad management, executing the trade in the middle of a game & being forced to pull the player out of the lineup prior to the start of the 3rd period in a 1-goal game where your struggling team is playing well vs a division rival & one of the top team in the league - which created a clear and unnecessary in-game distraction, showed bad sense of timing.

- being the GM of a team playing in a market where they are always the #1 focal point, and choosing to be both cavalier and guarded in your relationship with the media, makes the coach/players a bigger target & source of focus for that aggressive media. I'd argue that the GM of the habs should take the approach of strategically lightening the burden of the media glare from his coach/players by having it more focused on himself.

- i'd also add, though this is more hindsight, that choosing to go into the season with Engqvist/White pencilled in as 4th line C options, instead of re-signing the veteran that performed very well in his role last year (Halpern, who has continued to play well in his role, at a very reasonable 825K), was a mistake... though i don't fault PG in wanting to give the opportunity to White/Engqvist to win that role, injury hit White & Engqvist proved not ready, forcing PG to go out and address that via trade... this kind of "mistake" is part of the job, and not an issue, although it was a mistake.


prior to this season, I was more or less on the fence with Gauthier.

I think he inherited a difficult situation because his predecessor made several BIG mistakes (and to be fair, as director of pro scouting PG had a hand in some of those mistakes, how much none of us know).
Before this year I thought his moves were more or less "middle of the road". Nothing particularly astute, but nothing terribly bad. I liked the Halak trade (even though it's silly that he didn't get more information on what other teams would have offered, again even if only to try to drive up the price for St.Louis), and his other moves were either decent (d'ago/o'byrne) or small enough failures (lapierre) as to not illicit an overly negative reaction.

the decisions this year, listed above, imo make it clear that he is definitely not the excellent leader/manager this franchise needs if it is to ever return to a top-of-the-league stature. You can't be the best if you don't have "the best" running the ship.

Gauthier isn't the worst, but his decision making and approach to the position leave too much to be desired to warrant him staying in the position any longer.

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01-14-2012, 03:54 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There is a very distinct difference between wanting and expecting.

Becoming the fan of a team based on results is exactly what a band wagon fan is.

As a fan, you certainly want them to win. Expecting them to constantly be dominant has nothing to do with being a fan.
Kriss. I am at a loss for words.

"Constantly be dominant"?????

We havent won a Cup in 18 years and the outlook for winning one any time soon is extremely bleak.

Whiskey 7. So we are "SCUM" for daring to think that Gauthier is an inept GM????

Holy ****. Gotta give you props for that one.

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Old
01-14-2012, 03:59 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Tell me what argument he was trying to counter in your post.

It seems like your suffering from the same "attacking the poster, instead of trying to argue against a point". Why even post if you are not going to say anything, that is the only nonsense (as you put it) in this thread. Stop acting like a child.
I can think of a few posters I'd like to attack, can I please, please, pretty please with a cherry on top?

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01-14-2012, 04:09 PM
  #158
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This is a real troll thread.

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01-14-2012, 04:29 PM
  #159
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This is a real troll thread.
Every single thread over the last few days has been a troll thread. Hell, we have at least 4 threads on the first page discussing this exact same thing (minor variations in the OP doesn't count). I keep losing track of where I posted what comments. lol

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01-14-2012, 04:38 PM
  #160
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A tool is someone who isn't good at anything . Re-tooling is replacing one tool with another tool....LOL. Thats what PG is doing.

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01-14-2012, 04:43 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Kriss. I am at a loss for words.

"Constantly be dominant"?????

We havent won a Cup in 18 years and the outlook for winning one any time soon is extremely bleak.
And blaming PG for an 18 year drought is rather ridiculous as well.

I'm not even trying to defend him, he's been pretty representative of what this team has been, average. But the hate he gets is rather ridiculous.

No matter who gets hired as a new GM, that person deserves multiple years before putting a stamp on its team. That GM might make mistakes early on, might try to stick in a similar mind set as the previous one, but he also might end up changing things.
Look at Brian Burke, this is his 4th year. He had one vision of how to build the Leafs, he realized it wasn't working and opted to go in another direction. Looks like things are finally better in Leafs land.
This is very similar to what we're going through. PG is slowly rebuilding. Will it all pay off down the line? Nobody knows. Some obviously like to say no because they don't like the history, and that's alright, but it doesn't mean that every move is bad, classless and disrespectful.
He realized he needed to add size up front, and went for it. He also stated that he isn't necessarily finished, it's pretty clear that he has other things in mind brewing.

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01-14-2012, 04:46 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by All-Star View Post
Every single thread over the last few days has been a troll thread. Hell, we have at least 4 threads on the first page discussing this exact same thing (minor variations in the OP doesn't count). I keep losing track of where I posted what comments. lol
Basically every thread has turned into the same exact thing.

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01-14-2012, 04:48 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by LastRide View Post
A tool is someone who isn't good at anything . Re-tooling is replacing one tool with another tool....LOL. Thats what PG is doing.


The big question is who are the next tools to come and go. Hopefully Gauthier will replenish some picks but I am fearful of new incoming tools instead.

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01-14-2012, 04:49 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Basically every thread has turned into the same exact thing.
Yeah, but while there is really only one major conversation going on in Habland this week, this gives the illusion of several. I like having a choice between Gauthier/Cammalleri threads.

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01-14-2012, 05:08 PM
  #165
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we cannot do a re-tool with a tool like Gauthier.

Re-tooling should begin upstairs.


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01-14-2012, 05:12 PM
  #166
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Why do people keep defending him? He is not a particularly good GM and while he has a few decent/good trades and signings, he has much more bad ones that will hurt this team in the long term. This team does not need a retool, it needs to start over almost from scratch if not it will continue to be a borderline playoff team or worst like this season.

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01-14-2012, 05:16 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Why do people keep defending him? He is not a particularly good GM and while he has a few decent/good trades and signings, he has much more bad ones that will hurt this team in the long term. This team does not need a retool, it needs to start over almost from scratch if not it will continue to be a borderline playoff team or worst like this season.
Most habs fan here are irrational and lunatic, they threat the Habs like a God who you cannot judge

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01-14-2012, 05:27 PM
  #168
Et le But
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Why do people keep defending him? He is not a particularly good GM and while he has a few decent/good trades and signings, he has much more bad ones that will hurt this team in the long term. This team does not need a retool, it needs to start over almost from scratch if not it will continue to be a borderline playoff team or worst like this season.
Most of the defending has been against hyperbolic statements with no basis in reality like blaming Gauthier for the Gomez trade, refusing for crediting him for anything he did right, already writing off this trade when Cammalleri was playing awful and had an awful contract, and make assumptions that there is no evidence of.

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01-14-2012, 05:29 PM
  #169
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The definition of "re-tool" would be to give Gauthier a contract extension.

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01-14-2012, 05:32 PM
  #170
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The definition of "re-tool" would be to give Gauthier a contract extension.
good one

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01-14-2012, 05:56 PM
  #171
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Miller Time, thanks for a thought out response. Now let's argue!

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- deciding a few games into the season that you need to change your coaching staff, after having all summer to evaluate them and decide on your direction, and then doing so by firing an assistant hours before a game, reflects not just a lack of respect, but also a lack of forethought.
Come on man. The coaching staff was doing fine UNTIL the season started. Then it was obvious that Jacques way was getting tuned out. Goat could not reasonably fire Jacques though - he has too much weight and experience to be fired mid-october. So he fired Perry Pearn, who designed and implemented the failing powerplay. The team was 1-5-2, something had to be done to the coaches.

Quote:
- trading an expiring contract on a serviceable 5-6dman, for another serviceable 5-6dman who is also a strong one-dimensional pp player (but who was playing so poorly as to be a healthy scratch on one of the worst teams in the league) but is signed to a more expensive deal extending 2 extra years, is a bad move... doing so and not getting anything else in return from the GM/team that was desperate and vocal about trying to move him, is a terrible move
I don't disagree that Kaberle is playing like a 5-6. We got good value for him though as Spacek is a brittle, useless d-man and does not have half the offensive upside Kaberle has. The entire team is in a slump though, until they win regularly we won't be able to single Kaberle out as under-performing especially because his PPG has been good so far. Remember that Cammy was the finisher on the failing power-play and Cammy was not finishing, so maybe things will change.

Regarding his contract, I don't understand why people care so much about the dollars. We're a rich team and we can easily find cap room. If Kaberle becomes trade bait, he'll be traded. So what? There's no NTC, there's not NMC and we owe him no loyalty.

Quote:
- firing a head coach, a few weeks after firing his hand-picked assistant against his wishes (instead of firing both in the first place), and a few games after making the above bad decision (Kaberle), which was made purposefully to improve the area the team was most suffering from (PP), without letting the experienced HC have time to properly adjust to the new addition... which was only a necessary addition due to your (GM) failure in addressing that roster need (PP strong Dman) in the offseason, was a bad move... and I had no particular fondness for JM as our HC, but timing of roster/coaching decisions are almost as important as the actual people you bring in/move out.
Your mixing things up here but Jacques was given a lifeline. It makes sense because Jacques was OWED the lifeline. The man is super-experienced, super-patient and had a legitimate injury excuse to lean on. The first time he made it through but the team continued to play uninspired, inconsistent hockey and was losing games because of it. Gauthier said so himself; it wasn't the results it was the consistency that bothered him. Jacques lost the team and they were playing terrible hockey. Down goes the axe, there was no lifeline the second time.

Quote:
- hiring a uni-lingual head coach, and then proceeding to throw him under the bus... forget about class, that was just stupid & created a huge distraction for a team already struggling and not needing any extra excuses for poor on-ice execution.
This is a crock of poop. Randy Cunneyworth was not hired, he was promoted. He was already an assistant - it's not as if he was hand picked to lead the team, he was merely slotted in. The owner and the GM both, reasonably and correctly, assured their fanbase that when they start their real coach search they will take the language issue under consideration. This was to deflect attention from the on-ice team. So what did he do wrong?

Quote:
- trading away a player of Cammy's "potential" without fully exploring what the market would value him at (if only to use that as leverage) is bad management, executing the trade in the middle of a game & being forced to pull the player out of the lineup prior to the start of the 3rd period in a 1-goal game where your struggling team is playing well vs a division rival & one of the top team in the league - which created a clear and unnecessary in-game distraction, showed bad sense of timing.
You're using a lot of weasel words here. The timing of the trade was unfortunate but deliberate, read around and you'll understand why. Dreger has a good article, or you could watch Jay Feaster's press conference. Otherwise you're basing your point on hearsay and LIES. No GM worth his salt would whine about Cammy's market status when he's been slumping and the team's been slumping all season - Cammy was obviously on the market and the onus is on other GMs if they're interested in him. This cuts both ways, all I know is that that whiny GM is the failure, not Gauthier. Also there are other considerations; Cammy's no trade list, Eastern conference/North-east division teams and teams in which Gauthier did not find any value.

Quote:
- being the GM of a team playing in a market where they are always the #1 focal point, and choosing to be both cavalier and guarded in your relationship with the media, makes the coach/players a bigger target & source of focus for that aggressive media. I'd argue that the GM of the habs should take the approach of strategically lightening the burden of the media glare from his coach/players by having it more focused on himself.
I don't understand... Why do you give a crap about this??

Quote:
- i'd also add, though this is more hindsight, that choosing to go into the season with Engqvist/White pencilled in as 4th line C options, instead of re-signing the veteran that performed very well in his role last year (Halpern, who has continued to play well in his role, at a very reasonable 825K), was a mistake... though i don't fault PG in wanting to give the opportunity to White/Engqvist to win that role, injury hit White & Engqvist proved not ready, forcing PG to go out and address that via trade... this kind of "mistake" is part of the job, and not an issue, although it was a mistake.
This is a valid point. White got injured during training camp though and Halpern's play was rather uninspired after the initial first-half of the season last year. If you don't fault Goat for giving Engqvist a shot then how is it a mistake? He corrected it quickly and acquired Nokia. So no harm, no foul.

Quote:
prior to this season, I was more or less on the fence with Gauthier.

I think he inherited a difficult situation because his predecessor made several BIG mistakes (and to be fair, as director of pro scouting PG had a hand in some of those mistakes, how much none of us know).
Before this year I thought his moves were more or less "middle of the road". Nothing particularly astute, but nothing terribly bad. I liked the Halak trade (even though it's silly that he didn't get more information on what other teams would have offered, again even if only to try to drive up the price for St.Louis), and his other moves were either decent (d'ago/o'byrne) or small enough failures (lapierre) as to not illicit an overly negative reaction.
I'm just going to say this: He built this team in the image of his coach. His coach didn't want or play D'Ago, O'Byrne or Lapierre. They were (potentially) worth more to the team than they were on the market, being unproven young guys so you can't be upset at the returns. Lapierre was one of my favorite players but Jacques didn't want him - what could Goat do about it?

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01-14-2012, 07:56 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Miller Time, thanks for a thought out response. Now let's argue!



Come on man. The coaching staff was doing fine UNTIL the season started. Then it was obvious that Jacques way was getting tuned out. Goat could not reasonably fire Jacques though - he has too much weight and experience to be fired mid-october. So he fired Perry Pearn, who designed and implemented the failing powerplay. The team was 1-5-2, something had to be done to the coaches.
disagree. While we were not getting the results we wanted, the team was playing pretty good to start the season. I didn't agree with some of JM's decisions (not playing cole on the pp in particular), but we were outplaying teams in many of our losses.

Firing an assistant coach isn't the solution to that problem, and even if one believed it was, doing it on a game day, just a few hours before puck drop, when the HC is against it, is just stupid.

not too mention that it was PG's decision not to bring Muller back (or at least make him a serious offer), if you let the architecht of your PP go, you gotta give the new guys in charge more than 8 games to work things out.

panic move that had no positive impact. PP still sucks

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I don't disagree that Kaberle is playing like a 5-6. We got good value for him though as Spacek is a brittle, useless d-man and does not have half the offensive upside Kaberle has. The entire team is in a slump though, until they win regularly we won't be able to single Kaberle out as under-performing especially because his PPG has been good so far. Remember that Cammy was the finisher on the failing power-play and Cammy was not finishing, so maybe things will change.

Regarding his contract, I don't understand why people care so much about the dollars. We're a rich team and we can easily find cap room. If Kaberle becomes trade bait, he'll be traded. So what? There's no NTC, there's not NMC and we owe him no loyalty.
agree to disagree on the "value" of that trade. expiring contract in cap era has value, overweight overpaid pp specialist isn't worth 4.25M.

don't think PP problem was just "cammy not finishing"... more complex than that. Kaberle was brought in to "fix" the PP, or at least help it improve, while he's been putting up some pts, PP is no better.

as much as I was not a fan of Spacek (too pricey for a 5-6 dman being the biggest issue), I think an argument could be made that he was/is more effective than Kaberle in a purely defensive pov.

so we, at best, made a lateral move defensively, and have gotten no improvement from our pp.

best thing Kaberle could give us at this point, is a solid return in trade near the deadline from some other "smart" GM who thinks he'll help them be better equipped for the playoffs.


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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Your mixing things up here but Jacques was given a lifeline. It makes sense because Jacques was OWED the lifeline. The man is super-experienced, super-patient and had a legitimate injury excuse to lean on. The first time he made it through but the team continued to play uninspired, inconsistent hockey and was losing games because of it. Gauthier said so himself; it wasn't the results it was the consistency that bothered him. Jacques lost the team and they were playing terrible hockey. Down goes the axe, there was no lifeline the second time.
and go figure, they are still playing terrible hockey without JM... perhaps there is more than the coach that is the problem...

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
This is a crock of poop. Randy Cunneyworth was not hired, he was promoted. He was already an assistant - it's not as if he was hand picked to lead the team, he was merely slotted in. The owner and the GM both, reasonably and correctly, assured their fanbase that when they start their real coach search they will take the language issue under consideration. This was to deflect attention from the on-ice team. So what did he do wrong?
"crock of poop" ? really?

hired or promoted, having a new HC and then immediately throwing him under the bus is a bush league thing to do and does nothing but undermine him for the players, making the job of turning the team around more difficult.

PG's job is to make the team better, not throw wrenches into the spokes and make everyone's job tougher.

"reasonably & correctly"? how about reasonably and correctly standing behind the people they put in place? that would strike me as the first priority of a good manager/owner.

as opposed to deflect attention, the way he and molson handled this was akin to throwing gasoline on a smouldering ember... they ignited the controversy by the ineptitude with which they handled it.

- didn't appreciate the impact of putting a unilingual coach with zero NHL experience in the HC position of a struggling team, as many have pointed out, even non-hockey fans could figure out that this was a risky decision from day one.

- reacted with their commentary AFTER the **** started to hit the fan, and instead of showing the strength of their conviction, made a half-arsed attempt to placate the uproar, which obviously just emboldened those bent on making it a political issue.

i know that neither Gauthier nor Molson are PR experts, but even someone with rudimentary PR skills would have had a more effective plan in place.

reactionary "panic" move that blew up in his face, and instead of taking ownership, threw his employees under the bus.

brutal.

and i'll ignore your next comment, b/c i'm in no mood to deal with juvenile reactions.



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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
This is a valid point. White got injured during training camp though and Halpern's play was rather uninspired after the initial first-half of the season last year. If you don't fault Goat for giving Engqvist a shot then how is it a mistake? He corrected it quickly and acquired Nokia. So no harm, no foul.
When you are the man in charge, you are ultimately responsible for how your decisions work out.

in many ways, none of the things that happen during a season are directly a GM's "fault", players play well, players play poorly, some plans work out, some fail.

the buck stops at the GM, so he gets credit when it works and should take the blame when they don't.

best GM's end up with more decisions that "work" than that "fail", luck plays a huge role, bigger than any of us want to really consider, but the better a GM manages his assets and his decisions, the better prepared his roster is/will be to navigate the ups/downs that come with luck.

Pens, under Shero who has been doing an excellent job, are slumping badly right now, the weight of injuries to key personnel finally taking their toll. his string of good decisions buy him far more leeway than a guy like PG, who has made as many bad decisions as good ones, if not more.

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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I'm just going to say this: He built this team in the image of his coach. His coach didn't want or play D'Ago, O'Byrne or Lapierre. They were (potentially) worth more to the team than they were on the market, being unproven young guys so you can't be upset at the returns. Lapierre was one of my favorite players but Jacques didn't want him - what could Goat do about it?
and then he fired the coach when the team struggled for half a season, while it suffered a league leading amount of injuries to key personnel...

you make your bed, then sleep in it. you don't panic at the first signs of trouble unless you lack conviction.

I didn't particularly believe in JM as our HC. I would have kept Boucher, or Muller, even at the expense of firing JM (assuming neither would have accepted to stay as assistants, which we never had a chance to find out). He believed in JM and went with him...

Look at Burke with Wilson... say what you will, but at the very least, Burke sticks to his guns. Players (and coaches) respond to that over the long term.

When you flip flop and panic as much as Gauthier has this year, you lose credibility not just with fans/media/analysts (whose opinions ultimately don't matter, at least unless the fans stop watching which won't happen anytime soon in mtl), but most importantly with the players.

Cammy's comments (which I didn't agree with, at least not how he delivered them & his own lack of accountability), highlight the poisonous attitude and state of mind that is seeping into that locker room.
the body language of vets like Gio, Pleks & Gill show a defeatist attitude... a lack of confidence. Losing does that, but it gets amplified when you have no confidence in who/how the ship is running.

I don't pin that on RC, whose tenure has been too short to be at the root of the problem, I think you can trace it directly back to how PG has reacted this year.

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01-14-2012, 10:45 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
This is a valid point. White got injured during training camp though and Halpern's play was rather uninspired after the initial first-half of the season last year. If you don't fault Goat for giving Engqvist a shot then how is it a mistake? He corrected it quickly and acquired Nokia. So no harm, no foul.
While I'm don't think PG was 100% wrong in all moves, like some seem to... I do blame him for this one. Engqvist had not shown enough to be given the 4C job on opening day. We should have started the season with a proven player (there were plenty available for cheap through free agency, even on waivers at the end of pre-season - or we could have traded for Noke earlier). Had Engqvist played well enough to win the 14th forward job, he would have eventually gotten plenty of games. Instead, his "shot" consisted of 8 stinky games in which he played a small part in a terrible start for the team. Management missed an easy opportunity to put better players on the ice, when they should have known better.

A side note to the 4C conversation: I don't think the Habs ever intended to use White at center. Although he played C with the Hitmen, he has played RW pretty much exclusively in the Canadiens organization.

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01-14-2012, 11:11 PM
  #174
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And blaming PG for an 18 year drought is rather ridiculous as well.

I'm not even trying to defend him, he's been pretty representative of what this team has been, average. But the hate he gets is rather ridiculous.

No matter who gets hired as a new GM, that person deserves multiple years before putting a stamp on its team..
Not if he's shown gross incompetence.

I've sat and listened to other posters talk about how we should replace this guy and I've waited to see what kinds of moves he'd make. I've seen enough now.

It's one thing to make trades that probably shouldn't be made, it's another to start down the path of panic moves and harming the future. He's tying us to players who have long expensive contracts and he's not improving anything for us down the road.

I really hate the idea of changing GMs quickly. That's part of the reason why I didn't really call for Gainey's head even though I hated a lot of the moves he made near the end of his tenure. But PG has turned our club into a carnival sideshow. Kaberle was a terrible move, the bungling of the coaches with very strange timing and now a knee jerk reaction panic move that gets us nothing for the future. That one was the last straw for me.

Significant moves need to be made in the upcoming weeks and I don't think he's the guy for the job. There's no point in letting this guy manage our assets for the future if he's not going to be the GM of the future. Turn it over to somebody else.
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That GM might make mistakes early on, might try to stick in a similar mind set as the previous one, but he also might end up changing things.

Look at Brian Burke, this is his 4th year. He had one vision of how to build the Leafs, he realized it wasn't working and opted to go in another direction. Looks like things are finally better in Leafs land.
This is very similar to what we're going through. PG is slowly rebuilding. Will it all pay off down the line? Nobody knows. Some obviously like to say no because they don't like the history, and that's alright, but it doesn't mean that every move is bad, classless and disrespectful.
He realized he needed to add size up front, and went for it. He also stated that he isn't necessarily finished, it's pretty clear that he has other things in mind brewing.
There doesn't seem to be any kind of plan here at all. We just make one reactive move after another and load up on other club's retreads. Even if you aren't in favour of the classic rebuild model, this is not the way we're going to win a cup.

The man is scrambling and STILL trying to get pieces that will get us into 8th place. When you have that kind of mentality, you're probably going to do us more harm than good.

Thank you Mr. Gauthier, I wish you well but you need to gtfo now.

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Old
01-14-2012, 11:36 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by ReneBourque27 View Post
Most habs fan here are irrational and lunatic, they threat the Habs like a God who you cannot judge
pretty much, they all think they know better and would do better.

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