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What is a re-tool to you anyway? [In defense of the Goat]

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Old
01-15-2012, 03:35 PM
  #201
capebretoncanadien
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Excellent OP agree 100%. With the exception of MillerTime who at least is bringing coherent counters to your arguments the rest of the braying donkeys are bringing nothing but their usual shrill, incoherent babble.

Just a well thought out and excellent post.

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01-15-2012, 03:45 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
another borderline nhler- minor leaguer from another team
habs cant grow there own 4th liners so they get junk from other teams
Yeah, should have kept the amazing Trotter and keep using Engqvist on the 4th... it was working so well afterall...

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01-15-2012, 03:50 PM
  #203
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The way he makes trade... not shopping players around. We could have had much more for Halak and for Cammaleri... This guys improvise like no other GM
We got fleeced on the halak trade

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01-15-2012, 03:51 PM
  #204
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I don't think the man is really thinking about making the POs. if he did, then I have a very hard time understanding the firing of Martin in order to put RC in place, nor the Cammy trade.
I don't think he will publicly admit to not trying to make the POs, and I expect him to keep selling players.

I'd have no problem with him gtfo either, but I'm not gonna pretend like he's the worst gm ever as many here seem to believe.
I think you're right about him trying to make the PO at any price. If they wanted that one of our top 2 picks, Beaulieu, Tinordi etc.. would have been gone at least a month ago. This team has shown they aren't scared of throwing away 2nd round picks for band-aid (hell I think the last time we picked there was 2008) and yet they didn't bother getting a better D than Kab wich could have been availaible for a 2nd (and before people mention how we didn't get the 2nd Carolina offered in a package for him, that was in a package for Brassard not Spacek, not the same thing).

I don't thrust Gauthier and I hope he's gone after this year so we can finally get some longterm vision but I can admit the moves he's made so far don't tell me they are willing to throw the future away for a first round exit.

It looks like they are trying to do an half-assed job of selling the fact that the team is still trying by doing some trades and moves and, as easy as it is for me to have some sort of master rebuild plan in my head where we end up with 5 first round picks and a bunch of 9A prospects (okay not really), I can't actually blame them for still selling hope considering the market we are in.

It's easy for a bunch of hockey freaks who love prospects to say they don't mind losing if they get a top 5 pick out of it (I know I don't) but the average fan, the one who want to trade Subban and Pacioretty for Rick Nash (just an example), the one who still dream of Lecavalier, the one who thinks Eller is a bust at 22 year old, the one who booed Carey Price in a preseason game, they don't want future, they want playoffs NOW.

Now add the crazy media to that, the one willing to throw a 22 year old dman assuming top pairing duties under the bus, despite the fact that same 22 year old dman is the only guy with a positive Corsi on our blue line. Anyone think that the media will accept the growing pains that will come with a rebuild without saying anything ? In the end they won't have a choice but I understand why management is still trying to sell hope.

Says alot about how those situations have been handled in the past when I see the fact that we somehow still have our second round pick as a step in the right direction. Small steps I guess.

Edit: You see how crazy the boards are now, the GTD during a loss. Now imagine what the people who don't GaF about prospects are thinking.


Last edited by EllertoKostitsynGoal: 01-15-2012 at 03:58 PM.
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01-15-2012, 03:54 PM
  #205
larek
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Yeah, should have kept the amazing Trotter and keep using Engqvist on the 4th... it was working so well afterall...
they cant develop there own so they pick i up other teams scrags- Noke will be a no name trivia answer thats about it

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01-15-2012, 03:57 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
I think you're right about him trying to make the PO at any price. If they wanted that one of our top 2 picks, Beaulieu, Tinordi etc.. would have been gone at least a month ago. This team has shown they aren't scared of throwing away 2nd round picks for band-aid (hell I think the last time we picked there was 2008) and yet they didn't bother getting a better D than Kab wich could have been availaible for a 2nd (and before people mention how we didn't get the 2nd Carolina offered in a package for him, that was in a package for Brassard not Spacek, not the same thing).

I don't thrust Gauthier and I hope he's gone after this year so we can finally get some longterm vision but I can admit the moves he's made so far don't tell me they are willing to throw the future away for a first round exit.

It looks like they are trying to do an half-assed job of selling the fact that the team is still trying by doing some trades and moves and, as easy as it is for me to have some sort of master rebuild plan in my head where we end up with 5 first round picks and a bunch of 9A prospects (okay not really), I can't actually blame them for still selling hope considering the market we are in.

It's easy for a bunch of hockey freaks who love prospects to say they don't mind losing if they get a top 5 pick out of it (I know I don't) but the average fan, the one who want to trade Subban and Pacioretty for Rick Nash (just an example), the one who still dream of Lecavalier, the one who thinks Eller is a bust at 22 year old, the one who booed Carey Price in a preseason game, they don't want future, they want playoffs NOW.

Now add the crazy media to that, the one willing to throw a 22 year old dman assuming top pairing duties under the bus, despite the fact that same 22 year old dman is the only guy with a positive Corsi on our blue line. Anyone think that the media will accept the growing pains that will come with a rebuild without saying anything ? In the end they won't have a choice but I understand why management is still trying to sell hope.

Says alot about how those situations have been handled in the past when I see the fact that we somehow still have our second round pick as a step in the right direction. Small steps I guess.
and thats one of the main reason this org if it keeps doing waht its been doing for so many years will NOT be in a final never mind win it for another 20 years maybe more- your post was a good example

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01-15-2012, 04:34 PM
  #207
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The last couple of season, Gainey and Gauthier were quite good at patch work job.

they brought MAB, Moore, WIZ and these 3 guys contributed quite well.

This year, so far, it has been not so successful. Campoli and Kaberle are not saviours. Noke is barely ok. Do you remember Betts ? And Woywitka ?

Have you noticed they were all D-men ? And for what ? mainly to compensate Markov's numerous and long absences...

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01-15-2012, 04:35 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
The last couple of season, Gainey and Gauthier were quite good at patch work job.

they brought MAB, Moore, WIZ and these 3 guys contributed quite well.

This year, so far, it has been not so successful. Campoli and Kaberle are not saviours. Noke is barely ok. Do you remember Betts ? And Woywitka ?

Have you noticed they were all D-men ? And for what ? mainly to compensate Markov's numerous and long absences...
Not all. Moore was a center. my bad.

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Old
01-15-2012, 04:48 PM
  #209
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Another few weeks of losing like this and the GM has got to look at the bright side how to improve the Habs (the way Philly did) for near future as soon as next season even...

Trade almost all UFAs and get as much as you can (and let's also hope for another trade a la Gorges+1stRndPick--->Pacioretty FOR Rivet).

For the record I'm a huge fan of Moen but he may ask for too much...I'd sign him for another 2-3 years if the price is right...if not he is worth a lot to many teams (playoff warrior)...shop him around until a team (with sudden injuries) gets desperate (end of January? February?) and gives a lot more than we could hope for. 'Cause you don't give Moen for nothing in return.

Moen...(sign him to 2 years if price is right, if too expensive...shop him now until February and get a lot for him...I hope he stays...White and Moen will need each other).
Gill...gone.
AKost...gone (if he can't be signed for a decent 2 or 3 year contract)
Campoli...gone (try and get a 3rd or 4th RndPick...play him now to bring up his value or try!).
Kaberle...gone? maybe not? we'll never see markov and Kaberle on the PP...just like I thought! (Kaberle gone only if a team offers a lot...an offer we can't refuse!).
Blunden...gone?? maybe not? (package him with someone else to get something good in return...Blunden and Weber for a 2nd and a decent prospect?)

Anyone else that can go? (to improve our team NOW or in the near future)...for a very good prospect or even a 1st or a 2nd Rnd Pick...

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01-15-2012, 05:40 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
they cant develop there own so they pick i up other teams scrags- Noke will be a no name trivia answer thats about it
So, you would have preffered PG didnt do that trade and we kept the magnificent Trotter is that what you're trying to say ?

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01-16-2012, 10:55 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It's a long post but I'm really sick of people hating on every move. I caught myself yelling at Mitch Gallo and Tony Marinara when I was driving today - they're false prophets who intentionally don't look at things objectively.
*cough*leafs fan*cough*

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01-16-2012, 11:08 AM
  #212
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You can go on and on about every single move he has made if it's good or bad, personally I'm not his biggest fan but the last move he made was a decent one. The Kaberle trade was brutal and shows you exactly that he has no clue on how to build a team and that he ****ed up with the Markov signing. Kaberle is soft, weeks later he says we need to get bigger and bla bla bla.

Gainey wanted a 5 year plan it didn't lead to anything, he blew it all up and built a team the way an expansion team does with all those off season moves years ago.

Gauthier wants a top 10 team in the league and we are far from that, now on what year 3? How long do we we wait for that? The guy IMO is not the guy I want rebuilding the team. Right now we need someone young with different ideas on the game and someone who can bring an identity to this hockey team

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01-16-2012, 12:51 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
not having a set plan befiore you fired him was a mistake- Goat is still here so both should have stayed for the rest of the season and then wholesale changes for the management after the season
But that's Molson's fault for not steeping in when he needed to. Gauthier also fired Pearn after extending him just a couple of weeks before.

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01-16-2012, 02:43 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
You can go on and on about every single move he has made if it's good or bad, personally I'm not his biggest fan but the last move he made was a decent one. The Kaberle trade was brutal and shows you exactly that he has no clue on how to build a team and that he ****ed up with the Markov signing. Kaberle is soft, weeks later he says we need to get bigger and bla bla bla.

Gainey wanted a 5 year plan it didn't lead to anything, he blew it all up and built a team the way an expansion team does with all those off season moves years ago.

Gauthier wants a top 10 team in the league and we are far from that, now on what year 3? How long do we we wait for that? The guy IMO is not the guy I want rebuilding the team. Right now we need someone young with different ideas on the game and someone who can bring an identity to this hockey team
Actually, it will only be 2 years Gauthier is with the team on February 8th. So no it hasn't been three years.

He picked up Gainey's team in 09-10, had his first full season last season and this is technically his second where he has had control of the team from the start.

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01-16-2012, 02:51 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Another few weeks of losing like this and the GM has got to look at the bright side how to improve the Habs (the way Philly did) for near future as soon as next season even...

Trade almost all UFAs and get as much as you can (and let's also hope for another trade a la Gorges+1stRndPick--->Pacioretty FOR Rivet).

For the record I'm a huge fan of Moen but he may ask for too much...I'd sign him for another 2-3 years if the price is right...if not he is worth a lot to many teams (playoff warrior)...shop him around until a team (with sudden injuries) gets desperate (end of January? February?) and gives a lot more than we could hope for. 'Cause you don't give Moen for nothing in return.

Moen...(sign him to 2 years if price is right, if too expensive...shop him now until February and get a lot for him...I hope he stays...White and Moen will need each other).
Gill...gone.
AKost...gone (if he can't be signed for a decent 2 or 3 year contract)
Campoli...gone (try and get a 3rd or 4th RndPick...play him now to bring up his value or try!).
Kaberle...gone? maybe not? we'll never see markov and Kaberle on the PP...just like I thought! (Kaberle gone only if a team offers a lot...an offer we can't refuse!).
Blunden...gone?? maybe not? (package him with someone else to get something good in return...Blunden and Weber for a 2nd and a decent prospect?)

Anyone else that can go? (to improve our team NOW or in the near future)...for a very good prospect or even a 1st or a 2nd Rnd Pick...

I dont get why people around here want Kaberle out. Andrei Markov is a big ?????? in my book. Kaberle at 4M is not that bad.


Now if at the trade deadline 1 team come with a nice offer ....

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01-16-2012, 03:13 PM
  #216
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I dont get why people around here want Kaberle out. Andrei Markov is a big ?????? in my book. Kaberle at 4M is not that bad.


Now if at the trade deadline 1 team come with a nice offer ....
Cause he ain't worth his cap hit especially if he keeps playing like last night under 10 minutes a game

Also PG got bigger by getting Cole, then softer by getting Campoli and Kabs and now says again we need to get bigger by getting Bourque. I honestly don't think he know's himself what type of team he would like to build

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01-16-2012, 03:22 PM
  #217
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Cause he ain't worth his cap hit especially if he keeps playing like last night under 10 minutes a game

Also PG got bigger by getting Cole, then softer by getting Campoli and Kabs and now says again we need to get bigger by getting Bourque. I honestly don't think he know's himself what type of team he would like to build
Kaberle and campoli are supposed to be here to help the powerplay, now find me a player that was available for cheap that fits both the mold of pp helper and rough and tough and big at the same time and I'll start to believe you inane argument

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01-16-2012, 03:29 PM
  #218
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Kaberle and campoli are supposed to be here to help the powerplay, now find me a player that was available for cheap that fits both the mold of pp helper and rough and tough and big at the same time and I'll start to believe you inane argument
Joe Corvo was available in the off season and the Bruins got him for a 4th rounder. It's called being pro active which the Habs aren't( This group ) anyways!

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01-16-2012, 03:31 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Cause he ain't worth his cap hit especially if he keeps playing like last night under 10 minutes a game

Also PG got bigger by getting Cole, then softer by getting Campoli and Kabs and now says again we need to get bigger by getting Bourque. I honestly don't think he know's himself what type of team he would like to build
No.........according to Pierre Gauthier...........

Gauthier said the young players who joined the team this year like David Desharnais and Rafael Diaz are smaller skaters, but the team needs to get bigger.

I could be mistaken but I thought Desharnais was on the team last year but nonetheless Gauthier must have a new ratio of little / bigger players worked out in his mind. So in summary the Habs by retaining Desharnais and signing Diaz need to get rid of some of the other smurfs that were already here. Or something like that.

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01-16-2012, 03:35 PM
  #220
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Joe Corvo was available in the off season and the Bruins got him for a 4th rounder. It's called being pro active which the Habs aren't( This group ) anyways!
Uno: corvo is not close to be an agressive defenseman

Secundo: there was no need at the moment to be fixed, subban was becoming a pp threat and markov was about to come back healthy, and weber was ready to contribute now, it did not happen that way and PG had to do something to try to righten the ship, but since no one posess a crystal ball, it did not reap many benefits, but in the end did not cost much either, which is why I still approve of both moves

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01-16-2012, 03:35 PM
  #221
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Kaberle and campoli are supposed to be here to help the powerplay, now find me a player that was available for cheap that fits both the mold of pp helper and rough and tough and big at the same time and I'll start to believe you inane argument
sheldon souray

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01-16-2012, 03:37 PM
  #222
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Kaberle and campoli are supposed to be here to help the powerplay, now find me a player that was available for cheap that fits both the mold of pp helper and rough and tough and big at the same time and I'll start to believe you inane argument
Exactly

The problem with the PP is not Kaberle ... its the lack of identification (.let me explain)


our PP is a free for all right now. Remember when we were la creme de la creme in the league with Sheldon Souray

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAHSHCEbUmk

he was THE SHOOTER. Dont ask, pass it to Souray.Simple and efficient.


Now give Kaberle the same role (he was doing great in TO). Let him shoot!!!

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01-16-2012, 03:44 PM
  #223
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Exactly

The problem with the PP is not Kaberle ... its the lack of identification (.let me explain)


our PP is a free for all right now. Remember when we were la creme de la creme in the league with Sheldon Souray

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAHSHCEbUmk

he was THE SHOOTER. Dont ask, pass it to Souray.Simple and efficient.


Now give Kaberle the same role (he was doing great in TO). Let him shoot!!!
Kaberle has the worst shot on our blueline. Worse than Gill's.

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01-16-2012, 03:46 PM
  #224
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Kaberle and campoli are supposed to be here to help the powerplay, now find me a player that was available for cheap that fits both the mold of pp helper and rough and tough and big at the same time and I'll start to believe you inane argument
Souray: ridiculous contract (as in good) for what you get.

Wizniewski: Gauthier never even negotiated with him. Probably too high but Gauthier never even bothered.

Hamrlik: 3.0 mil for 2 years

Kaberle: 4.25 mil for 3 years

I'm not saying that Hamrlik would have fixed the PP entirely but it's very possible he would not have allowed it to sink to an all time low. And he would have helped in other areas too. Wiz and Souray would have fixed a few things.

Gauthier was ill prepared for Markov's injury and ended up chasing his tail.

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01-16-2012, 03:46 PM
  #225
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Kaberle has the worst shot on our blueline. Worse than Gill's.
Stop it with all the logic, no place for this here.

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