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Milbury disects Habs management/team

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Old
01-15-2012, 12:09 PM
  #126
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It should be noted if every GM knows you are shopping player X, the value of return would likely be diminished for the seller GM, unless the player in Question elicits a bidding war...

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01-15-2012, 12:10 PM
  #127
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I totally understand the disdain for Milbury but at the end of the day, PG has done a terrible job of GM of this team.

That's the bottom line.

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01-15-2012, 12:18 PM
  #128
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Milbury = Bumsweat!

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01-15-2012, 12:21 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by giovannicanella View Post
It should be noted if every GM knows you are shopping player X, the value of return would likely be diminished for the seller GM, unless the player in Question elicits a bidding war...
So, if you are selling your house do you instruct your real estate agent to stop accepting offers once he's found 1 customer?

If you are hiring an employee do you stop the hiring process once you've interviewed one person?

You cannot improve the club by operating this way.

I am so glad that this mode of operation is being exposed by the Elliott Friedmans of the world as to make it difficult for the ownership group to ignore it.

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01-15-2012, 12:30 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
I totally understand the disdain for Milbury but at the end of the day, PG has done a terrible job of GM of this team.

That's the bottom line.
It's the popular theory, yes. I think he's been just fine. Things have not gone our way in ways that are out of his control and when the ship rights itself it will be because of things balancing out.

People's complaints have just been increasing proportional to each game we lose, not to isolated moves. It's frustration with the team's performance that is translated as "we as fans thought the team was good on paper, but now since they ended up sucking (despite some great surprises), it's all PGs fault and he should have known from the start".

Cammy ended up being useless to this team. He had 2 good years and excellent playoffs. He is gone now. PG brought in bigger players ever since he's been here. Look at our lineup, it's getting grittier every day. Teams take a while to start playing to their potential. Markov's medical situation is just plain complicated and the things that happened were unforeseen. It's not PG's fault. HE still has Andrei Markov as a member of the Habs. Were he gone, people would be up in arms. He will return as a force. Cole, enough said. Gorges is locked up (and I don't buy the "so much cheaper in summer" argument cuz it counters the Markov deal bashing logic). Eller is going to lead this team in points for years, book it. Emelin is the crushing D we have not had in over two decades. Plekanec (haters gonna hate) is IMO one of the most underrated forwards in the game. Once all the burden is not on him, watch him be such an integral part of a Cup. Gill is gone next year and we won't have to deal with Hammer. He's also the reason Gorges and PK have elevated their games from where they were previously (PK's "maturity" is actually quite good because of him).

The Gomez deal, which was BG but peple say the scouting was all PG. Gainey re-tooled and wanted guys who were proven winners. The Gionta-Gomez thing looked great and Gomez used to put up some very good numbers. The kind you'd see on a team where scoring was distributed between lines. Gomez was good the first season, awful the second and hasn't had an opportunity this season and likely won't given Gio is gone (again, we blame the result of freak injuries on Gauthier). Price's current deal was pretty good. Be happy we have this goalie at that...price. It's totally fair.

Halpern, Moore, Nokaleinen. I'm actually a big fan of Blunden. He may look awkward, but he is not just a hard worker - he gets the puck and backchecks like a mother. Moen has been very useful to us.

The hate for PG is attributed to under performing and injuries (which are linked). A healthy Habs lineup this year would have been much much better. You can say that we should have had more depth, but it simply doesn't just appear out of nowhere. DD has stepped up big. LL will be a very solid player. The season has gone awry, but I can see us as one of those teams that comes back with a vengeance next year.

He's not as bad as he looked, but oh, I forgot Milbury, he sucks cuz we have Carey Price and PK Subban. Please do not try out for a debate team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
So, if you are selling your house do you instruct your real estate agent to stop accepting offers once he's found 1 customer?

If you are hiring an employee do you stop the hiring process once you've interviewed one person?

You cannot improve the club by operating this way.

I am so glad that this mode of operation is being exposed by the Elliott Friedmans of the world as to make it difficult for the ownership group to ignore it.
Friedman explicitly said that PG never talked to anyone else?


Last edited by Habsfan18: 01-15-2012 at 12:37 PM. Reason: merge
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01-15-2012, 12:36 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
I totally understand the disdain for Milbury but at the end of the day, PG has done a terrible job of GM of this team.

That's the bottom line.
How so?

The team's struggles are 80% linked to the gainey era.

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01-15-2012, 12:43 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How so?

The team's struggles are 80% linked to the gainey era.
PG was here then as well.

The way he does business doesn't work. Hasn't worked any where else he has been. Will not work here.

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01-15-2012, 12:47 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
How so?

The team's struggles are 80% linked to the gainey era.
You really have a hard time understanding that Gauthier is just as responsible. Everyone in the media says this as well, Gainey made the final decisions cause he is the GM but Gauthier as pro scout is the one scouting these players.

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01-15-2012, 12:48 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
It's the popular theory, yes. I think he's been just fine. Things have not gone our way in ways that are out of his control and when the ship rights itself it will be because of things balancing out.

People's complaints have just been increasing proportional to each game we lose, not to isolated moves. It's frustration with the team's performance that is translated as "we as fans thought the team was good on paper, but now since they ended up sucking (despite some great surprises), it's all PGs fault and he should have known from the start".

Cammy ended up being useless to this team. He had 2 good years and excellent playoffs. He is gone now. PG brought in bigger players ever since he's been here. Look at our lineup, it's getting grittier every day. Teams take a while to start playing to their potential. Markov's medical situation is just plain complicated and the things that happened were unforeseen. It's not PG's fault. HE still has Andrei Markov as a member of the Habs. Were he gone, people would be up in arms. He will return as a force. Cole, enough said. Gorges is locked up (and I don't buy the "so much cheaper in summer" argument cuz it counters the Markov deal bashing logic). Eller is going to lead this team in points for years, book it. Emelin is the crushing D we have not had in over two decades. Plekanec (haters gonna hate) is IMO one of the most underrated forwards in the game. Once all the burden is not on him, watch him be such an integral part of a Cup. Gill is gone next year and we won't have to deal with Hammer. He's also the reason Gorges and PK have elevated their games from where they were previously (PK's "maturity" is actually quite good because of him).

The Gomez deal, which was BG but peple say the scouting was all PG. Gainey re-tooled and wanted guys who were proven winners. The Gionta-Gomez thing looked great and Gomez used to put up some very good numbers. The kind you'd see on a team where scoring was distributed between lines. Gomez was good the first season, awful the second and hasn't had an opportunity this season and likely won't given Gio is gone (again, we blame the result of freak injuries on Gauthier). Price's current deal was pretty good. Be happy we have this goalie at that...price. It's totally fair.

Halpern, Moore, Nokaleinen. I'm actually a big fan of Blunden. He may look awkward, but he is not just a hard worker - he gets the puck and backchecks like a mother. Moen has been very useful to us.

The hate for PG is attributed to under performing and injuries (which are linked). A healthy Habs lineup this year would have been much much better. You can say that we should have had more depth, but it simply doesn't just appear out of nowhere. DD has stepped up big. LL will be a very solid player. The season has gone awry, but I can see us as one of those teams that comes back with a vengeance next year.

He's not as bad as he looked, but oh, I forgot Milbury, he sucks cuz we have Carey Price and PK Subban. Please do not try out for a debate team.



Friedman explicitly said that PG never talked to anyone else?
Gauthier wanted Bourque. Period.

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01-15-2012, 12:54 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
I totally understand the disdain for Milbury but at the end of the day, PG has done a terrible job of GM of this team.

That's the bottom line.
Could you back that up with some evidence? I know he is a PR disaster but he has made a lot of good moves, too. And all of his moves were made without the benefit of hindsight.

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01-15-2012, 01:00 PM
  #136
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Milbury is criticizing Gauthier for not talking to every single team about Cammalleri? Really? Are you telling me he actually talked to 28 GM's and not one of them offered a deal better than Oleg Kvasha and Mark Parrish for Roberto Luongo and Oli Jokkinen? I find that hard to believe.

And can we please stop whining about the anonymous GM's who claim they didn't know Cammy was available. We've seen this happen on basically every trade that everyone makes.

Do you think it would have helped if Gauthier called up all 7 teams on Cammy's no-trade list? "Yeah hi Islanders, what will you give me for Cammalleri? Hypothetically of course because he has your crap team on his list of 7 teams he can't be traded to, but I don't want to annoy anyone at HNIC so I have to talk to you and get an offer out of you anyway".

Do you think it would have helped to call bottom dwellers who refuse to spend more than $42 million a year on salaries? "Yeah hi Coyotes, you guys are losing gobs of money and may or may not be there next season, and you always scrape up against the cap floor, wanna pick up 19-goal Cammy and pay him $13 million over the next 2 seasons?"

Has anyone verified that Jay Feaster talked to every single GM to let them know that 27 goal scorer Rene Bourque and 2nd Rounder 2013 were available before pulling the trigger for Cammalleri? Maybe he could have got something better than a tiny uncaring winger who gets paid $6 million this year and had 9 goals halfway through the season. Why don't Milbury and Friedman roast him too?

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01-15-2012, 01:02 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
You really have a hard time understanding that Gauthier is just as responsible. Everyone in the media says this as well, Gainey made the final decisions cause he is the GM but Gauthier as pro scout is the one scouting these players.
Ah yes, as a scout Gauthier was making the decisions on the structure of the team.

As for scouting Gomez, do you really believe that anything Gauthier said would have made a difference. Gomez had been in the league for a long time and the evaluation process probably had as much to do with Gainey's perception of his play as it had to do with anything Gauthier would have said. The same goes for Gionta and Cammalleri. These were high profile players and there skill set was well known around the league.

Gainey obviously thought a bunch of smurfs would work. His fingerprints are all over this and making accusations about Gauthier's role in this are completely unfounded. They are based in speculation and not fact. Something that is rampant on this board and in the media.

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01-15-2012, 01:03 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
Milbury is criticizing Gauthier for not talking to every single team about Cammalleri? Really? Are you telling me he actually talked to 28 GM's and not one of them offered a deal better than Oleg Kvasha and Mark Parrish for Roberto Luongo and Oli Jokkinen? I find that hard to believe.

And can we please stop whining about the anonymous GM's who claim they didn't know Cammy was available. We've seen this happen on basically every trade that everyone makes.

Do you think it would have helped if Gauthier called up all 7 teams on Cammy's no-trade list? "Yeah hi Islanders, what will you give me for Cammalleri? Hypothetically of course because he has your crap team on his list of 7 teams he can't be traded to, but I don't want to annoy anyone at HNIC so I have to talk to you and get an offer out of you anyway".

Do you think it would have helped to call bottom dwellers who refuse to spend more than $42 million a year on salaries? "Yeah hi Coyotes, you guys are losing gobs of money and may or may not be there next season, and you always scrape up against the cap floor, wanna pick up 19-goal Cammy and pay him $13 million over the next 2 seasons?"

Has anyone verified that Jay Feaster talked to every single GM to let them know that 27 goal scorer Rene Bourque and 2nd Rounder 2013 were available before pulling the trigger for Cammalleri? Maybe he could have got something better than a tiny uncaring winger who gets paid $6 million this year and had 9 goals halfway through the season. Why don't Milbury and Friedman roast him too?



edit: oh I just noticed you said 19 goal Cammy. We must be talking about someone else. Unless that's the total amount of goals over the past 2.5 years in the regular season. Is it? If it is...thank you PG. Thank you.

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01-15-2012, 01:04 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
You really have a hard time understanding that Gauthier is just as responsible. Everyone in the media says this as well, Gainey made the final decisions cause he is the GM but Gauthier as pro scout is the one scouting these players.
The media hates PG because he doesn't kiss their collective *****. He isn't buddy buddy with them or give them inside "scoops", we don't hear anything until deals actually happen.

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01-15-2012, 01:05 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by CGG View Post
Milbury is criticizing Gauthier for not talking to every single team about Cammalleri? Really? Are you telling me he actually talked to 28 GM's and not one of them offered a deal better than Oleg Kvasha and Mark Parrish for Roberto Luongo and Oli Jokkinen? I find that hard to believe.

And can we please stop whining about the anonymous GM's who claim they didn't know Cammy was available. We've seen this happen on basically every trade that everyone makes.

Do you think it would have helped if Gauthier called up all 7 teams on Cammy's no-trade list? "Yeah hi Islanders, what will you give me for Cammalleri? Hypothetically of course because he has your crap team on his list of 7 teams he can't be traded to, but I don't want to annoy anyone at HNIC so I have to talk to you and get an offer out of you anyway".

Do you think it would have helped to call bottom dwellers who refuse to spend more than $42 million a year on salaries? "Yeah hi Coyotes, you guys are losing gobs of money and may or may not be there next season, and you always scrape up against the cap floor, wanna pick up 19-goal Cammy and pay him $13 million over the next 2 seasons?"

Has anyone verified that Jay Feaster talked to every single GM to let them know that 27 goal scorer Rene Bourque and 2nd Rounder 2013 were available before pulling the trigger for Cammalleri? Maybe he could have got something better than a tiny uncaring winger who gets paid $6 million this year and had 9 goals halfway through the season. Why don't Milbury and Friedman roast him too?
This ^^

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01-15-2012, 01:10 PM
  #141
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There were 7 teams that Cammy didn't want to go to per his contract and Gauthier wanted to trade Cammy in the west,so that brings it down to 8 to 10 teams to trade with

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01-15-2012, 01:10 PM
  #142
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The media hates PG because he doesn't kiss their collective *****. He isn't buddy buddy with them or give them inside "scoops", we don't hear anything until deals actually happen.
Yes I understand that part and I agree with that and I'm happy that the Habs don't give them any info CP

That has nothing to do with the point though, Pierre Gauthier was a pro scout scouting for Bob Gainey, not for the medias. At the end of the day, all those that we signed weren't a 100% coming from Gainey. He has a bigger part of the blame making the decision final but Gauthier is also to blame big time. It's time to clean house and start fresh with new blood, someone young that sees the game differently and that can give the Habs an identity cause Gauthier/Gainey didn't!

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01-15-2012, 01:19 PM
  #143
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Yes I understand that part and I agree with that and I'm happy that the Habs don't give them any info CP

That has nothing to do with the point though, Pierre Gauthier was a pro scout scouting for Bob Gainey, not for the medias. At the end of the day, all those that we signed weren't a 100% coming from Gainey. He has a bigger part of the blame making the decision final but Gauthier is also to blame big time. It's time to clean house and start fresh with new blood, someone young that sees the game differently and that can give the Habs an identity cause Gauthier/Gainey didn't!
I'm not saying I wouldn't welcome Julien Brisebois, but I also think Gauthier gets way too much blame. The % attribution from the Gainey moves cannot be attributed to solely PG. Gainey has a very firm opinion of things. It's really leaning on it to say that PG was the strings behind all of Gainey's moves. For all we know he disagreed with many of them including Gomez. As previously mentioned, you didn't need to scout Gomez, or Gionta. Gainey knew who they were. He decided to sign Gio because the Kovy thing was becoming a mess. It wasn't PG who was holding an egg timer. We might have even gotten less in the Gomez deal, maybe PG told him about Pyatt. I know I'll get flamed for this, but I realllly liked Pyatt, wish he was still a Hab. Now yeah, PG let him go, but he's dont a good job filling those voids. Would have helped him if White was back.

Anyway, I think it's just as easy to say that PG should get some of the blame for Gainey's moves as it is to say he should get NO blame. Nobody knows what influence PG had, it's just becoming a commonly accepted "fact". I can't wait for his tell all book though. He should call it the name of the beer that is constantly promoted. Just call it:

M

BTW, when is Carbo's book about Gainey coming out?

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01-15-2012, 01:32 PM
  #144
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There were 7 teams that Cammy didn't want to go to per his contract and Gauthier wanted to trade Cammy in the west,so that brings it down to 8 to 10 teams to trade with
So Gauthier could have worked out deals with 29 teams about Cammalleri, 7 of which needed Cammalleri's approval.

So, how many did he contact?

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01-15-2012, 01:38 PM
  #145
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So Gauthier could have worked out deals with 29 teams about Cammalleri, 7 of which needed Cammalleri's approval.

So, how many did he contact?
that's the point...nobody knows. All that's sure is that it was not more than 28.

Also if you assume the West conf. thing, he could maximally have talked to 16 taking into consideration Cammalleri would have to approve. Many of them would have been crap deals I imagine since Cammy has sucked. For weeks, many people have speculated Calgary cuz that was a team that seemed to hold him in high esteem. I really doubt the teams at the top want to disturb their top 6 to insert $6million Cammy in their lineup. In fact, we should be very glad that he went where he went and for what he did. Why is there the assumption that he was such a hot commodity? He was bringing the Habs down, not the other way.

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01-15-2012, 01:42 PM
  #146
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Is this true? I've been busy this year and haven't seen many games. I know Price hasn't been as good this year as he was last year, but "below average"? Any merit in this?
How would Milbury know? This is the guy that demolished the Islanders......he has no clue....

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01-15-2012, 01:43 PM
  #147
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u know the GM sucks when Milburry makes sense

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01-15-2012, 01:46 PM
  #148
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that's the point...nobody knows. All that's sure is that it was not more than 28.

Also if you assume the West conf. thing, he could maximally have talked to 16 taking into consideration Cammalleri would have to approve. Many of them would have been crap deals I imagine since Cammy has sucked. For weeks, many people have speculated Calgary cuz that was a team that seemed to hold him in high esteem. I really doubt the teams at the top want to disturb their top 6 to insert $6million Cammy in their lineup. In fact, we should be very glad that he went where he went and for what he did. Why is there the assumption that he was such a hot commodity? He was bringing the Habs down, not the other way.
Solid assessment of things......some are under the impression that we could have gotten more but they cannot say why other than to point to seasons of seasons long past or a 20 game playoff stints a few years ago. The reality is that Cammie is a one dimensional player and when he is not scoring, he cannot bring ANYTHING else to the table....in fact, as you pointed out, he was hurting the team more often than not.....and this has been ongoing for two seasons now....

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01-15-2012, 01:47 PM
  #149
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So Gauthier could have worked out deals with 29 teams about Cammalleri, 7 of which needed Cammalleri's approval.

So, how many did he contact?
I think his point was that there is quite a few teams that weren't suitable trade partners for one reason or another, which is a fair and valid statement.

I can't say whether or not Gauthier shopped Cammalleri around as much as he should have, but there's really no way for any of us to know that.

In the most simplistic sense, there are 29 teams that are available trade partners is true. However, once practical considerations are taken into account, it's pretty clear that for cap-reasons, trade clause implications and team needs/fit considerations are looked at, the list of suitors is much smaller than you are implying.

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01-15-2012, 01:48 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
that's the point...nobody knows. All that's sure is that it was not more than 28.

Also if you assume the West conf. thing, he could maximally have talked to 16 taking into consideration Cammalleri would have to approve. Many of them would have been crap deals I imagine since Cammy has sucked. For weeks, many people have speculated Calgary cuz that was a team that seemed to hold him in high esteem. I really doubt the teams at the top want to disturb their top 6 to insert $6million Cammy in their lineup. In fact, we should be very glad that he went where he went and for what he did. Why is there the assumption that he was such a hot commodity? He was bringing the Habs down, not the other way.
So Gauthier decides to deal only with Calgary and that's acceptable to you?

The fact that Gauthier didn't shop Cammalleri is getting attention because it is usual for a GM to do precisely that . Do you believe the conspiracy theories that Gauthier is a victim of the media?

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