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01-15-2012, 01:54 PM
  #151
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Word on the street is Cammy wasn't a popular guy in the dressing room, and not many teams wanted him, he has a reputation. Not sticking up for the chief misfit, but it could be not many teams were willing to discuss things anyways.

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01-15-2012, 02:06 PM
  #152
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Word on the street is Cammy wasn't a popular guy in the dressing room, and not many teams wanted him, he has a reputation. Not sticking up for the chief misfit, but it could be not many teams were willing to discuss things anyways.
I was wondering whether anyone would bring that up. I thought given it's rumours (although widddely supported) that it shouldn't factor in cuz I think the deal was great either way, but yeah, seriously, people act as if Cammy was the hottest player in the NHL and the most coveted. I was hoping for him to sort stuff out, but he took the easy way out and didn't help the team. It was his way or the highway (out of town). yes I will miss his sniped (from a year ago +), but at the end of the day, he is what he is and we made the right choice. I'm sure in Calgary he's insulated enough to not be the go to guy and get by. His stock rose in Montreal cuz of those playoffs and the first regular season. In Calgary he will be ONE of many different types of attack and he'll probably do well there. If he struggles, CBC will have forgotten about him.Given he's in the west, all the best to him, but I hold him accountable for his struggles this year. He did nothing to help us and it's disappointing cuz I really liked him.

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01-15-2012, 02:10 PM
  #153
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So Gauthier decides to deal only with Calgary and that's acceptable to you?

The fact that Gauthier didn't shop Cammalleri is getting attention because it is usual for a GM to do precisely that . Do you believe the conspiracy theories that Gauthier is a victim of the media?
You do not know who he was offered to and who had discussions with whom about him......You are making up facts to support your viewpoint. Mature people collect facts first then make up their mind as to what they think about it.....

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01-15-2012, 02:11 PM
  #154
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I think Cammy needs a true star and leader like Iggy around, it makes him easier to ignore (and probably quiets him up a bit - I don't think even he is delusional enough to think he deserves a C before Iginla) and makes it easier for him to do his own thing. Trying to make him The Man was a terrible miscalculation.

While I still think Boston "won" the Kessel trade, just imagine what would have happened if Toronto tried to build around Cammalleri instead of Kessel!

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01-15-2012, 02:25 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
You do not know who he was offered to and who had discussions with whom about him......You are making up facts to support your viewpoint. Mature people collect facts first then make up their mind as to what they think about it.....
I'm not sure if you're serious given your history.

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01-15-2012, 02:28 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
You do not know who he was offered to and who had discussions with whom about him......You are making up facts to support your viewpoint. Mature people collect facts first then make up their mind as to what they think about it.....
Fwiw, Elliote Friedman talked to a number of GMs and said Cammalleri wasn't shopped at all.

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01-15-2012, 02:29 PM
  #157
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Fwiw, Elliote Friedman talked to a number of GMs and said Cammalleri wasn't shopped at all.
When do GM ever admit to specific trade discussions? When? In baseball, football and hockey, trade discussions almost never become public....unless a trade actually happens.......this is pure speculation.....is all!

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01-15-2012, 02:33 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
Fwiw, Elliote Friedman talked to a number of GMs and said Cammalleri wasn't shopped at all.
I'm wont to believe him.

Seems like this (and the previous) administration's M.O. anyway, so it's not hard to believe.

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01-15-2012, 02:44 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
When do GM ever admit to specific trade discussions? When? In baseball, football and hockey, trade discussions almost never become public....unless a trade actually happens.......this is pure speculation.....is all!
Admitting trade discussions and player availability are two different things. The question was, was Cammalleri shopped, Friedman's answer based on the info he gathered was no. The reason for that is, word travels fast when a player is available... look at the players that moved pre-deadline last year: Penner/Fisher/Kovalev/Kaberle/Arnott. The whole world knew these guys were available. Trades no one saw coming were like the St. Louis/Colorado deal where Shattenkirk/Johnson were exchanged. That deal saw two GMs deal with each other, much like what Friedman suggests happened between PG and Feaster.

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01-15-2012, 02:54 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I think Cammy needs a true star and leader like Iggy around, it makes him easier to ignore (and probably quiets him up a bit - I don't think even he is delusional enough to think he deserves a C before Iginla) and makes it easier for him to do his own thing. Trying to make him The Man was a terrible miscalculation.

While I still think Boston "won" the Kessel trade, just imagine what would have happened if Toronto tried to build around Cammalleri instead of Kessel!
Cammalleri, Seguin, Hamilton and Knight

or

Kessel

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01-15-2012, 03:04 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Habit11 View Post
Admitting trade discussions and player availability are two different things. The question was, was Cammalleri shopped, Friedman's answer based on the info he gathered was no. The reason for that is, word travels fast when a player is available... look at the players that moved pre-deadline last year: Penner/Fisher/Kovalev/Kaberle/Arnott. The whole world knew these guys were available. Trades no one saw coming were like the St. Louis/Colorado deal where Shattenkirk/Johnson were exchanged. That deal saw two GMs deal with each other, much like what Friedman suggests happened between PG and Feaster.
Again, you are expecting that a GM would share inside info with Friedman about possible knowledge of availability or direct discussion with PG.......which is highly unlikely as GMs do not want to talk about what discussions they are having so to not send the wrong message to their players.....so you are basing this on one man`s attempt of getting inside info which is typically not shared with the media......thus the label of speculation....

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01-15-2012, 03:08 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
You do not know who he was offered to and who had discussions with whom about him......You are making up facts to support your viewpoint. Mature people collect facts first then make up their mind as to what they think about it.....
Nice try. My viewpoint is based on opinions expressed by highly credible observers who have direct access to those who can confirm whether they were or were not informed of Gauthier's wish to trade Cammalleri. If you are arguing with my viewpoint you are arguing with the viewpoints of Friedman and Mackenzie. I have made up my mind based on the opinions and credibility of those people.

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01-15-2012, 03:15 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Nice try. My viewpoint is based on opinions expressed by highly credible observers who have direct access to those who can confirm whether they were or were not informed of Gauthier's wish to trade Cammalleri. If you are arguing with my viewpoint you are arguing with the viewpoints of Friedman and Mackenzie. I have made up my mind based on the opinions and credibility of those people.
So when you say highly credible observers, you are referring to two guys who you believe have access to this answer? Please put up your links so that we can corroborate what you are saying because all I can find from Mackenzie is this (http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=384950) and this is not supporting what you are saying in any way.....do you have links to offer to support your point?

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01-15-2012, 03:15 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Again, you are expecting that a GM would share inside info with Friedman about possible knowledge of availability or direct discussion with PG.......which is highly unlikely as GMs do not want to talk about what discussions they are having so to not send the wrong message to their players.....so you are basing this on one man`s attempt of getting inside info which is typically not shared with the media......thus the label of speculation....
Sarge, we are talking about Friedman and Mckenzie, not Eklund and Garrioch. These guys are connected and the latter is probably the most connected media person in the hockey world.

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01-15-2012, 03:20 PM
  #165
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Over priced, smallish player making 6million/year. Not hard to believe there weren't many suitors. IF the talks were going on for a month, it's unlikely we could've gotten a second, Bourque, and a prospect for Cammy, a 5th and a goalie who will never play in NA again unless he gets a starter's job (which he won't in Calgary.) from any other team. We hosed Calgary on this one.

PS a number of GM's does NOT constitute 29 GM's. Besides, who cares. We got a good deal.

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01-15-2012, 03:22 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
Again, you are expecting that a GM would share inside info with Friedman about possible knowledge of availability or direct discussion with PG.......which is highly unlikely as GMs do not want to talk about what discussions they are having so to not send the wrong message to their players.....so you are basing this on one man`s attempt of getting inside info which is typically not shared with the media......thus the label of speculation....
Mike Gillis tweeted, "We are open for business. We are talking about different players who bring more balance to our team in certain areas." Burke made it clear he was going to move Kaberle. Chiarelli made it clear they were going to move Kessel. GMs across the league have shared player availability in the past publicly. Happens. That also doesn't preclude a GM from telling a guy like Friedman that so and so is available from another team.

Guys like Dreger, McKenzie, and Friedman learn of player availability all the time, hence how we knew that all the players I mentioned were available... and shockingly got traded pre-deadline. You are confusing availability and discussions. The Habs' operate in secrecy. It's no surprise. They have to. There are 10 media outlets in two languages sniffing around all the time, so I don't blame them for making trades and signings out of left field that no one can predict, they have no choice. That only further substantiates that they don't shop a player. It's because people like Friedman find out and announce it on national television, and the circus takes over.

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01-15-2012, 03:22 PM
  #167
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Sarge, we are talking about Friedman and Mckenzie, not Eklund and Garrioch. These guys are connected and the latter is probably the most connected media person in the hockey world.
I understand the source but it does not make it so just because they said it.....I did a google trying to see if I could find anything supporting your viewpoint and I did not so I was asking for the links that lead you to have that opinion so that I can see by myself what was specifically said.....

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01-15-2012, 03:33 PM
  #168
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I understand the source but it does not make it so just because they said it.....I did a google trying to see if I could find anything supporting your viewpoint and I did not so I was asking for the links that lead you to have that opinion so that I can see by myself what was specifically said.....
The link you have has the following quote by Mckenzie:

"And I can tell you there are a number of NHL GMs who had no idea Montreal was prepared to trade Cammalleri. This was not a player who was shopped around the league. "

Elliot Friedman on Hotstove Jan 14, on the Cammalleri and Halak trades "in both those cases Montreal didn't shop them around to the league, they sort of picked a trade partner and said this is where that players going, and that's it..."

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01-15-2012, 03:34 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
I understand the source but it does not make it so just because they said it.....I did a google trying to see if I could find anything supporting your viewpoint and I did not so I was asking for the links that lead you to have that opinion so that I can see by myself what was specifically said.....

I'm in the same camp as you Sarge, I dont really buy into what Friedman said. But for argument's sake we say he is right. Which GMs did he talk to? Were they just certain Eastern teams, were most of them part of the 7 in Cammy's LNTC. It is too subjective unless Friedman mentions the team....which he wouldn't.

Don't get me wrong, I have alot of respect for Friedman, MacKenzie and Dreger. These guys are the most credible everyday sources out there. But how many GMs, despite good relations with Friedman, would divulge specific info like that and risk their reputation in their field?


End of the day, I do feel we could have gotten more for Cammy, but I also feel it was a pretty good deal. A top6 fwd with size who produces about what Cammy did with us (so a sideways move....but add a different dimention to our team) a 2nd and a prospect who could crack the NHL if develloped properly for Cammy (who was a perifery player and easily defended due to the fact he played in our system) a goalie who likely will not come back to NA and a late round pick.

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01-15-2012, 03:37 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
The link you have has the following quote by Mckenzie:

"And I can tell you there are a number of NHL GMs who had no idea Montreal was prepared to trade Cammalleri. This was not a player who was shopped around the league. "

Elliot Friedman on Hotstove Jan 14, on the Cammalleri and Halak trades "in both those cases Montreal didn't shop them around to the league, they sort of picked a trade partner and said this is where that players going, and that's it..."
maybe PGGM had specific players in mind as the return. We are all just guessing here.

As I`ve said before. I think we won out on the Halak deal, A future 2nd line centreman with size and maybe a quality 4th liner who can fight, and I think we`ll win out on this Cammy deal long term. Cap space, size, no real loss of overall goals scored and a good pick in another deep draft.

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01-15-2012, 03:41 PM
  #171
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When I first heard about this I honestly thought it was another guy named Mike Milbury. That it wasn't the former GM of the NYI because that just couldn't be possible.

The guy just makes a bigger fool of himself by the day

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01-15-2012, 03:47 PM
  #172
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So Gauthier decides to deal only with Calgary and that's acceptable to you?

The fact that Gauthier didn't shop Cammalleri is getting attention because it is usual for a GM to do precisely that . Do you believe the conspiracy theories that Gauthier is a victim of the media?
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
The link you have has the following quote by Mckenzie:

"And I can tell you there are a number of NHL GMs who had no idea Montreal was prepared to trade Cammalleri. This was not a player who was shopped around the league. "

Elliot Friedman on Hotstove Jan 14, on the Cammalleri and Halak trades "in both those cases Montreal didn't shop them around to the league, they sort of picked a trade partner and said this is where that players going, and that's it..."
Well, your original quote stated that Gauthier spoke to only one team.....the second quote speak to Gauthier not speaking to 32 GM.....so I am inclined to think that Gauthier spoke to some, but not to all GM....Picking a trade partner does not suggest speaking to only one team........but your original premise was Calgary only, remember?

I don't mean to be argumentative but I doubt Gauthier spoke to one team only.....and so far, no one seem to say that either.....

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01-15-2012, 03:55 PM
  #173
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Another thread to stir the insecure Price fans. Milbury said on Hotstove that Carey Price was "not over .500" , he didn't say "below average". Not that either statement is outrageous.
Sorry if the truth gets in the way of you feeling superior, "Agnostic" but he said it on NBC during the Detroit-Chicago game.

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01-15-2012, 04:00 PM
  #174
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Well, your original quote stated that Gauthier spoke to only one team.....the second quote speak to Gauthier not speaking to 32 GM.....so I am inclined to think that Gauthier spoke to some, but not to all GM....Picking a trade partner does not suggest speaking to only one team........but your original premise was Calgary only, remember?

I don't mean to be argumentative but I doubt Gauthier spoke to one team only.....and so far, no one seem to say that either.....
Results of the trade aside, I have a problem with Gauthier's process, or at least the growing perception of his methods.

A building team should not be worried about trading a player to a team in it's division or conference. See Toronto and Boston last year. A player with a NTC can be approached to waive it, so 7 teams should not be crossed off the list automatically.

Unless this was all about getting Bourque, which if the strategy if Gauthier, would also concern me.

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01-15-2012, 04:06 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
The link you have has the following quote by Mckenzie:

"And I can tell you there are a number of NHL GMs who had no idea Montreal was prepared to trade Cammalleri. This was not a player who was shopped around the league. "

Elliot Friedman on Hotstove Jan 14, on the Cammalleri and Halak trades "in both those cases Montreal didn't shop them around to the league, they sort of picked a trade partner and said this is where that players going, and that's it..."
If that was the truth why would St.Louis let Eller go? Why would Calgary let Bourque, a pick and a prospect for a 6 mil guy that was barely contributing anything?

If PG was only negotiating with one team he must be one heck of a poker player because both teams gave up a lot for the asset they got. I was thrilled when I heard the Cammy trade given everything that's happened this year.

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