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Old
01-15-2012, 04:36 PM
  #51
jbeck5
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Originally Posted by jeffl97 View Post
You're acting like we're just oh so happy to dish Ryan out to anyone that will take him. Like he's a burden in ANA, and he's regressed to a 50point player permanently. Ryan's asking price is sky high and there is 28 other teams besides yours that would be interested in Ryan.
Aslong as you understand you're far to one end of the argument.

"you're acting like we're just oh so happy to dish out Nick Foligno, Matt Puempel, And a 1st in a very deep draft to anyone who will take them.

The fact you're arguing that ryan is vastly superior to 3 first round picks is astonishing.

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01-15-2012, 04:37 PM
  #52
Gil Gunderson
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
You should get your eyes checked then.
That one flew right by you, didn't it? I didn't feel i needed the sarcasm smiley.

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Old
01-15-2012, 04:37 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
Someone doesn't watch ducks game

Please stop embarrassing yourself.
My guess is that you watch more Sens games?

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Old
01-15-2012, 04:38 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
Someone doesn't watch ducks game

Please stop embarrassing yourself.
Someone doesn't watch sens games.

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

My argument was as good as yours.

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Old
01-15-2012, 04:38 PM
  #55
duckaroosky
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Originally Posted by rodwan553 View Post
That one flew right by you, didn't it? I didn't feel i needed the sarcasm smiley.
It did... but the way the thread was going I just assumed all the sens fans were forgetting the sarcasm smiley and then realized most of them were serious.

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01-15-2012, 04:39 PM
  #56
Gil Gunderson
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
It did... but the way the thread was going I just assumed all the sens fans were forgetting the sarcasm smiley and then realized most of them were serious.
Fair enough. I agree, it's getting ridiculous.

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Old
01-15-2012, 04:40 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Someone doesn't watch sens games.

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

My argument was as good as yours.
I don't have an argument... you obviously have no idea what you're talking about is my only argument really. I'm not pretending like I've scouted your players and know their innermost secrets and can see into the future as to what a worthless player they are. So once again... step away from the keyboard, go outside, play in the snow because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

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Old
01-15-2012, 04:45 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Aslong as you understand you're far to one end of the argument.

"you're acting like we're just oh so happy to dish out Nick Foligno, Matt Puempel, And a 1st in a very deep draft to anyone who will take them.

The fact you're arguing that ryan is vastly superior to 3 first round picks is astonishing.
Um you're the one who proposed the trade, not me, so apparently you are. What does being a first round pick have to do with anything? Pysyk + Hayes + Howden for Bobby Ryan. There's 3 1st round picks, is that enough value? Not even close. Datsyuk was drafted in the 6th round so 2 first rounders for him should do, no? ... Not to mention this makes no sense for the Ducks as our biggest needs are a #2C and a top 4 shutdown D. Ryan has proved way more in his career than Foligno has, so I don't see him as a centerpiece for Ryan. Not to also mention the asking price for Ryan is roster players, not picks. But let's just say he does go for picks, here is what MURRAY (read, not me, the actual GM) is looking for: two high-end prospects and two No. 1 picks in return.

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Old
01-15-2012, 04:50 PM
  #59
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Moderator NoteKeep it down. Keep it civil and within the rules, and don't tell people to "gtfo", or I'll have to have everyone stay-tfo of this thread by shutting it down. Enough with the personal and general fanbase attacks.


Last edited by Vipers31: 01-15-2012 at 04:58 PM.
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Old
01-15-2012, 04:51 PM
  #60
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Murray has never traded our 1st.

I don't see now being a good time to either.

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01-15-2012, 05:01 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Just like you guys did for Turris?
Hah hah.
Say what you want about the current proposal but that Turris deal is looking pretty sweet right now for Ottawa. Look at his stats and our record since he was traded to Ottawa.

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01-15-2012, 05:01 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
[Mod Note: Deleted quote.]
Great, so if both fan bases don't know **** all about the other team's players, it brings me back to my original point. It's hilarious *some* duck fans can laugh it off and say the value is way off. I forgot how many petes games you get in cali.

Point is, 2 first rounders for kessel (roughly same value at the time as ryan) was considered a HUGE overpayment(thats even before they ended up being high picks...its when the leafs were predicted to make the playoffs and they would be mid round picks).

So if two 1st mid round picks at the time was an overpayment, then how is 3 first round picks NOT EVEN CLOSE for ryan value wise? It just doesn't make sense.

Once again, i'm not arguing that it solves a need for you guys as i only watch a handful of games and don't know the insides and outs of your organization. But it's pretty clear it's fair value in a vacuum regarldless of if they fit certain needs or not.


Last edited by Vipers31: 01-15-2012 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Deleted quote.
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Old
01-15-2012, 05:08 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
But it's pretty clear it's fair value in a vacuum regarldless of if they fit certain needs or not.
In an attempt to get the discussion away from it's recent track, it doesn't really matter what value there is a vacuum, since especially the Ducks (giving away the requested player) do not exist in such a vacuum. If a GM is looking at Ryan as a 50-point player, it's obvious there's no deal to be found.

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01-15-2012, 05:09 PM
  #64
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To jeff(quote not working): Where they got drafted doesn't matter yet i've heard someone mention bobby's draft position. I'm surprised you didn't quote them to tell them draft position doesn't matter.

Draft position means less and less the farther you go from the draft day. So why is puempel's value not equal to a first rounder anymore? He's producing a tough lower while working a lot more on his defensive and physical game...which was to ottawa's desire. You can notice that by seeing him be a -33 last year, and only -3 now. His value seems to be right on par with where he got drafted.

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01-15-2012, 05:09 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Great, so if both fan bases don't know **** all about the other team's players, it brings me back to my original point. It's hilarious *some* duck fans can laugh it off and say the value is way off. I forgot how many petes games you get in cali.

Point is, 2 first rounders for kessel (roughly same value at the time as ryan) was considered a HUGE overpayment(thats even before they ended up being high picks...its when the leafs were predicted to make the playoffs and they would be mid round picks).

So if two 1st mid round picks at the time was an overpayment, then how is 3 first round picks NOT EVEN CLOSE for ryan value wise? It just doesn't make sense.

Once again, i'm not arguing that it solves a need for you guys as i only watch a handful of games and don't know the insides and outs of your organization. But it's pretty clear it's fair value in a vacuum regarldless of if they fit certain needs or not.
Just because it's painfully obvious you don't know what you're talking about and I admitted I don't know about these players does not mean other people in the fanbases don't know about the players...

My point is your argument is invalid because Bobby has been playing musical chairs between various lines for half the season (sometimes with getzlaf and perry and other times with bonino and the beer guy behind section 247 and sometimes in the same game). Until recently has he been exclusively with Getzlaf and Perry and has put up 5 points in 5 games. So I would say your assessment of it being fair value because some guy on the 3rd line has more points is extremely flawed and shows you don't know what you're talking about.

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Old
01-15-2012, 05:10 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
In an attempt to get the discussion away from it's recent track, it doesn't really matter what value there is a vacuum, since especially the Ducks (giving away the requested player) do not exist in such a vacuum. If a GM is looking at Ryan as a 50-point player, it's obvious there's no deal to be found.
I agree with you. But that wasn't what i was arguing against. I talking about some of the first responses that say the value is way off. It's not.

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Old
01-15-2012, 05:12 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by TheZibanejad View Post
Murray has never traded our 1st.

I don't see now being a good time to either.
He traded our first last year for Rundblad and a SJ first we got a few years ago for Campoli.

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01-15-2012, 05:14 PM
  #68
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I agree with you. But that wasn't what i was arguing against. I talking about some of the first responses that say the value is way off. It's not.
It is, or at least can very well considered so, because there isn't one value. That doesn't exist. There's 30 different subjective values to every team, and most of the times, to two teams, those are significantly apart. One may consider the average of those 30 subjective values the "value in a vacuum", but it doesn't change how good the value is to the one other team involved, and only that matters in the end.

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01-15-2012, 05:14 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
Just because it's painfully obvious you don't know what you're talking about and I admitted I don't know about these players does not mean other people in the fanbases don't know about the players...

My point is your argument is invalid because Bobby has been playing musical chairs between various lines for half the season (sometimes with getzlaf and perry and other times with bonino and the beer guy behind section 247 and sometimes in the same game). Until recently has he been exclusively with Getzlaf and Perry and has put up 5 points in 5 games. So I would say your assessment of it being fair value because some guy on the 3rd line has more points is extremely flawed and shows you don't know what you're talking about.
hahaha

Yes, changing lines often will effect your production a bit...but not that drastically if you're that good of a player. Some of you guys have made it seem like ryan is as good as someone like spezza...yet spezza would never put up 50 point paces regardless of who he plays with...like spezza, great players will put up near a ppg even if they play with ahlers/ bottom 6 grinders...not sure about the beer guy though.

You like to throw out insults like "you don't know what you're talking about" like santa claus throws out candy canes at a christmas parade. (yes i made that one up right now, not bad eh? )

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01-15-2012, 05:16 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
To jeff(quote not working): Where they got drafted doesn't matter yet i've heard someone mention bobby's draft position. I'm surprised you didn't quote them to tell them draft position doesn't matter.

Draft position means less and less the farther you go from the draft day. So why is puempel's value not equal to a first rounder anymore? He's producing a tough lower while working a lot more on his defensive and physical game...which was to ottawa's desire. You can notice that by seeing him be a -33 last year, and only -3 now. His value seems to be right on par with where he got drafted.
Lot of posts got deleted for whatever reason. Anyways, looking back at the topic I misquoted you instead of the guy I was replying too. No wonder things got weird.

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01-15-2012, 05:18 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
It is, or at least can very well considered so, because there isn't one value. That doesn't exist. There's 30 different subjective values to every team, and most of the times, to two teams, those are significantly apart. One may consider the average of those 30 subjective values the "value in a vacuum", but it doesn't change how good the value is to the one other team involved, and only that matters in the end.
I agree for sure. But once again, it just brings me back to those posts and how they were said.

with what you have said in mind,(and i agree with you) it should have been like: "Ducks say no. though 3 first round picks is a lot, to us,and the way our organization is built, bobby ryan has more value then your 3 assets proposed. no deal" not "haha terrible! NOT EVEN CLOSE! value way off" or what was that quote of the day..."foligno and puempel suck"?

I hope now, you can understand where im coming from, just like i understand where you're coming from.

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01-15-2012, 05:19 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by jeffl97 View Post
Lot of posts got deleted for whatever reason. Anyways, looking back at the topic I misquoted you instead of the guy I was replying too. No wonder things got weird.
Haha it's all good!

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Old
01-15-2012, 05:21 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
hahaha

Yes, changing lines often will effect your production a bit...but not that drastically if you're that good of a player. Some of you guys have made it seem like ryan is as good as someone like spezza...yet spezza would never put up 50 point paces regardless of who he plays with...like spezza, great players will put up near a ppg even if they play with ahlers/ bottom 6 grinders...not sure about the beer guy though.

You like to throw out insults like "you don't know what you're talking about" like santa claus throws out candy canes at a christmas parade. (yes i made that one up right now, not bad eh? )
How often does Spezza get changed from center to a winger? How often are he's linemates changed? A daily basis? A weekly basis? There is something to be said for consistency in position and linemates... that's how you develop chemistry. And IMO the constant thrashing around of Bobby Ryan has greatly affected his production as evident the small the sample size that once he is exclusively on the RPG line he produces.

It's not an insult in saying you don't know what you're talking about if it's true. Did you know Bobby was being put on different lines... did you know Bobby was being used as a center at sometimes as well? If you take it as an insult then maybe you should get some thicker skin.

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01-15-2012, 05:23 PM
  #74
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I hope now, you can understand where im coming from, just like i understand where you're coming from.
I can. And for sure, I am not going to pin the blame for the escalation in this thread on any one side or user. That subjective value to teams is something that would help out whenever one base rejects a proposal, even when it's not as explicitly stated as you perfectly put it.

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01-15-2012, 05:29 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
How often does Spezza get changed from center to a winger? How often are he's linemates changed? A daily basis? A weekly basis? There is something to be said for consistency in position and linemates... that's how you develop chemistry. And IMO the constant thrashing around of Bobby Ryan has greatly affected his production as evident the small the sample size that once he is exclusively on the RPG line he produces.

It's not an insult in saying you don't know what you're talking about if it's true. Did you know Bobby was being put on different lines... did you know Bobby was being used as a center at sometimes as well? If you take it as an insult then maybe you should get some thicker skin.
Spezza only plays center because he's one of the best faceoff guys in the league. Why would you put one of the best faceoff guys on the wing? Doesn't make sense. Our coach isn't brain dead.

His linemates? Can you tell me who's on his line right now? Butler's played on his wing. Filatov has played on his wing. Alfredsson has played on his wing. Greening has played on his wing. Michalek has played on his wing. etc.

Since we're saying "you don't know what you're talking about" sometimes spezza has michalek on his wing...other times michalek plays with alfie on the second line. We rotate lines too, you know.

What are you even trying to prove? That you know more about the senators then i know about the ducks? This is ridiculous!

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