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Old
01-15-2012, 05:34 PM
  #76
Dick Whitman
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Spezza only plays center because he's one of the best faceoff guys in the league. Why would you put one of the best faceoff guys on the wing? Doesn't make sense. Our coach isn't brain dead.

His linemates? Can you tell me who's on his line right now? Butler's played on his wing. Filatov has played on his wing. Alfredsson has played on his wing. Greening has played on his wing. Michalek has played on his wing. etc.

Since we're saying "you don't know what you're talking about" sometimes spezza has michalek on his wing...other times michalek plays with alfie on the second line. We rotate lines too, you know.

What are you even trying to prove? That you know more about the senators then i know about the ducks? This is ridiculous!
Sometimes fans are content with their bad hockey team, playing bad hockey. We were last year and didn't want to move any of our key guys short of an overpayment. It is what it is. However, I'm fairly confident that Ducks fans will be extremely disappointed with the return they get based on their expectations in this thread... That's assuming Ryan is traded which I doubt he will be.

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01-15-2012, 05:35 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Dick Whitman View Post
Sometimes fans are content with their bad hockey team, playing bad hockey. We were last year and didn't want to move any of our key guys short of an overpayment. It is what it is. However, I'm fairly confident that Ducks fans will be extremely disappointed with the return they get based on their expectations in this thread... That's assuming Ryan is traded which I doubt he will be.
Great points. I agree.

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01-15-2012, 05:44 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Spezza only plays center because he's one of the best faceoff guys in the league. Why would you put one of the best faceoff guys on the wing? Doesn't make sense. Our coach isn't brain dead.

His linemates? Can you tell me who's on his line right now? Butler's played on his wing. Filatov has played on his wing. Alfredsson has played on his wing. Greening has played on his wing. Michalek has played on his wing. etc.

Since we're saying "you don't know what you're talking about" sometimes spezza has michalek on his wing...other times michalek plays with alfie on the second line. We rotate lines too, you know.

What are you even trying to prove? That you know more about the senators then i know about the ducks? This is ridiculous!


Yes... that's exactly what I was doing... you got me

Or I was elaborating on your comparison of Spezza and Bobby by saying Bobby is a great player (close to the player of Spezza) but his numbers this year aren't as good because he gets moved from wing to center and was getting new linemates every game. I was doing so by showing the stability of Spezza versus the stability (more like instability) Bobby has experienced this year. I have and never will claim to know more about the Senators I was merely presenting the facts as to why Bobby's production and your assessment of Bobby vs Foligno is inaccurate even in a vacuum.

So I will ask again... were you aware that Bobby did not play with Getzlaf and Perry exclusively and that he has been switched from wing to center on several occasions?

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01-15-2012, 05:50 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post


Yes... that's exactly what I was doing... you got me

Or I was elaborating on your comparison of Spezza and Bobby by saying Bobby is a great player (close to the player of Spezza) but his numbers this year aren't as good because he gets moved from wing to center and was getting new linemates every game. I was doing so by showing the stability of Spezza versus the stability (more like instability) Bobby has experienced this year. I have and never will claim to know more about the Senators I was merely presenting the facts as to why Bobby's production and your assessment of Bobby vs Foligno is inaccurate even in a vacuum.

So I will ask again... were you aware that Bobby did not play with Getzlaf and Perry exclusively and that he has been switched from wing to center on several occasions?
I didn't know he has been switched between C and W but i know they've switched linemates...as has spezza...which was why i brought him up. He's still producing regardless of who his linemates are and how often they change.

Lots of players switch positions...zetterberg moves to the wing to play with datsyuk...his production doesn't go down from playing on the wing. Same with malkin when he goes up to play with crosby. Lots of players do it...you don't hear it as an excuse.

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01-15-2012, 06:01 PM
  #80
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lol @ nick foligno being mentioned in same breath as Ryan. When all is said and done he'll be 30/30 minimum while that would be a career year for Foligno.

Ottawa doesnt have the right expendable assets to land Ryan. Period. dont try and sell us on b and c level players please

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01-15-2012, 06:04 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
I didn't know he has been switched between C and W but i know they've switched linemates...as has spezza...which was why i brought him up. He's still producing regardless of who his linemates are and how often they change.

Lots of players switch positions...zetterberg moves to the wing to play with datsyuk...his production doesn't go down from playing on the wing. Same with malkin when he goes up to play with crosby. Lots of players do it...you don't hear it as an excuse.
You said 1 guy gets changed and plays on Spezza's wing... does he every get 2 completely new linemates (barring injury) about every other game? I find it hard to believe that you think Spezza being put on a wing on the 3rd line with new AHL caliber linemates that he'd still produce at a respectable level (I could be wrong though). Because that is exactly what they've done to Bobby on more than 1 occasion this season.

And then you try and compare being moved position and playing with 3rd players to being moved position and playing with Datsyuk and Crosby???? The before mentioned beer guy behind section 247 could put up points with those guys especially if the beer guy is as talented as Zetterberg or Malkin, even Bobby could produce with them. But he's not being put with them... he's getting 3rd line minutes in a position that he was only recently moved to (I want to say it was 2 years ago they started the Bobby as a center experiment) and playing with glorified AHL players. Oh and then when we're behind by 2 goals they turn on the random line generator and put him with 2 new linemates half way through the 2nd.

Puts the whole Bobby's point total in perspective when compared to Foglino doesn't it

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01-15-2012, 06:15 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
lol @ nick foligno being mentioned in same breath as Ryan. When all is said and done he'll be 30/30 minimum while that would be a career year for Foligno.

Ottawa doesnt have the right expendable assets to land Ryan. Period. dont try and sell us on b and c level players please
That's probably true given the fact Anaheim doesn't want to take non-NHL assets back as the key part of the deal.

Usually takes a particular situation for these deals to come to fruition. Any deal they could potentially make with Toronto is probably a loss for them anyways.

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Old
01-15-2012, 06:18 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
You said 1 guy gets changed and plays on Spezza's wing... does he every get 2 completely new linemates (barring injury) about every other game? I find it hard to believe that you think Spezza being put on a wing on the 3rd line with new AHL caliber linemates that he'd still produce at a respectable level (I could be wrong though). Because that is exactly what they've done to Bobby on more than 1 occasion this season.

And then you try and compare being moved position and playing with 3rd players to being moved position and playing with Datsyuk and Crosby???? The before mentioned beer guy behind section 247 could put up points with those guys especially if the beer guy is as talented as Zetterberg or Malkin, even Bobby could produce with them. But he's not being put with them... he's getting 3rd line minutes in a position that he was only recently moved to (I want to say it was 2 years ago they started the Bobby as a center experiment) and playing with glorified AHL players. Oh and then when we're behind by 2 goals they turn on the random line generator and put him with 2 new linemates half way through the 2nd.

Puts the whole Bobby's point total in perspective when compared to Foglino doesn't it
Ridiculous exaggerations like '2 completely new linemates every other game' does not help you make your point. Unless you're actually saying that Bobby Ryan will have played with 80 different linemates over the course of the season.

I bolded the above because you are wrong, because that's exactly what Spezza did last year and he performed at a ppg clip. If Nick Foligno isn't half the player Bobby Ryan is, then the same can be said when it comes to Spezza and Ryan.

I've skipped over the rest of the garbage you wrote because it's not relevant. Guys get moved around in the NHL, it happens all the time but this is the first time I've seen someone complain about it as much as you have in this thread. Suck it up, princess. Bobby Ryan is not as good as you think he is. Not even close.

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Old
01-15-2012, 06:21 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by TheZibanejad View Post
Murray has never traded our 1st.

I don't see now being a good time to either.
I really doubt Murray would be reluctant to give up our 1st right now for Ryan.

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Old
01-15-2012, 06:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Dick Whitman View Post
Ridiculous exaggerations like '2 completely new linemates every other game' does not help you make your point. Unless you're actually saying that Bobby Ryan will have played with 80 different linemates over the course of the season.

I bolded the above because you are wrong, because that's exactly what Spezza did last year and he performed at a ppg clip. If Nick Foligno isn't half the player Bobby Ryan is, then the same can be said when it comes to Spezza and Ryan.

I've skipped over the rest of the garbage you wrote because it's not relevant. Guys get moved around in the NHL, it happens all the time but this is the first time I've seen someone complain about it as much as you have in this thread. Suck it up, princess. Bobby Ryan is not as good as you think he is. Not even close.
Bobby Ryan has played with several different linemate combinations, yes... that is an accurate statement. Not as ridiculous as the exaggeration saying Foglino=Ryan

And how long did the "clip" go on for... half a season?

And when guys get moved around it's expected that their production takes a hit... this is the first time I've ever seen people say otherwise. Your opinion on Bobby Ryan is your opinion but it's pretty obvious most of you don't have a clue about what's going on in Anaheim.

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Old
01-15-2012, 07:00 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Whitman View Post
Sometimes fans are content with their bad hockey team, playing bad hockey. We were last year and didn't want to move any of our key guys short of an overpayment. It is what it is. However, I'm fairly confident that Ducks fans will be extremely disappointed with the return they get based on their expectations in this thread... That's assuming Ryan is traded which I doubt he will be.
Holding on to core players for lack of overpayment seems to have worked out quite well for Ottawa this year though, no?

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01-15-2012, 08:12 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
You said 1 guy gets changed and plays on Spezza's wing... does he every get 2 completely new linemates (barring injury) about every other game? I find it hard to believe that you think Spezza being put on a wing on the 3rd line with new AHL caliber linemates that he'd still produce at a respectable level (I could be wrong though). Because that is exactly what they've done to Bobby on more than 1 occasion this season.

And then you try and compare being moved position and playing with 3rd players to being moved position and playing with Datsyuk and Crosby???? The before mentioned beer guy behind section 247 could put up points with those guys especially if the beer guy is as talented as Zetterberg or Malkin, even Bobby could produce with them. But he's not being put with them... he's getting 3rd line minutes in a position that he was only recently moved to (I want to say it was 2 years ago they started the Bobby as a center experiment) and playing with glorified AHL players. Oh and then when we're behind by 2 goals they turn on the random line generator and put him with 2 new linemates half way through the 2nd.

Puts the whole Bobby's point total in perspective when compared to Foglino doesn't it
Why would you change him positions to play him with bad players? You always play the best player on the line where he belongs...or atleast the player who is more versatile.

Look, if he's as good as you think he is, then he would produce regardless...if he's not that good, then foligno,puempel, and a 1st isn't that bad of an offer. You can't have it both ways.

Spezza was given butler and greening after all the trades last year and produced at a 100 point pace when he was used to michalek and alfredson for the past year and a half.

Great players will produce anywhere with anyone. They create their own offense.

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Old
01-15-2012, 09:07 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
Bobby Ryan has played with several different linemate combinations, yes... that is an accurate statement. Not as ridiculous as the exaggeration saying Foglino=Ryan

And how long did the "clip" go on for... half a season?

And when guys get moved around it's expected that their production takes a hit... this is the first time I've ever seen people say otherwise. Your opinion on Bobby Ryan is your opinion but it's pretty obvious most of you don't have a clue about what's going on in Anaheim.
I know more about the Senators than you.

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01-15-2012, 09:14 PM
  #89
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This is a solid roster player, a good prospect and a 1st in a deep draft, you are not getting a better return for most any players, including Ryan. What do people think this kid will fetch? Roster player+ prospect+ 1st round pick is a solid package for anyone being traded, with the exception of the superstar tier.

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01-15-2012, 09:18 PM
  #90
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This is a solid roster player, a good prospect and a 1st in a deep draft, you are not getting a better return for most any players, including Ryan. What do people think this kid will fetch? Roster player+ prospect+ 1st round pick is a solid package for anyone being traded, with the exception of the superstar tier.
This whole thread is dumb.

This is what would happen...

Ottawa to Anaheim: Hey we might be interested in Bobby Ryan....
Anaheim to Ottawa: Ok we want Jared Cowen straight up for him...
Ottawa: We can't trade him....
Anaheim: He is the one guy we need on your team, I guess we will not be able to make a deal.
Ottawa: Guess not. Good luck.

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01-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Why would you change him positions to play him with bad players? You always play the best player on the line where he belongs...or atleast the player who is more versatile.

Look, if he's as good as you think he is, then he would produce regardless...if he's not that good, then foligno,puempel, and a 1st isn't that bad of an offer. You can't have it both ways.

Spezza was given butler and greening after all the trades last year and produced at a 100 point pace when he was used to michalek and alfredson for the past year and a half.

Great players will produce anywhere with anyone. They create their own offense.
I am not saying you should move Spezza... what I am saying is the Anaheim organization has a pipe dream of have Ryan being a center and he's getting moved around a lot and I am merely posing the question that would Spezza score at a PPG if he was switched from center to winger... or would you give him a break? And I've asked repeatedly... how long was he with AHL caliber players? The whole season... half a season?

So to break it down for you:

Constant changes in lines and linemates
Changes in playing position
Playing with less quality linemates

As I mentioned... only recently has Bobby had any sort of stability in his linemates and he's 6 points in 6 games.

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01-15-2012, 09:21 PM
  #92
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I know more about the Senators than you.
I know more about Waffles than you... I've seen him in his boxers

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01-15-2012, 09:22 PM
  #93
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I love how these discussions are always the same.

Fans of team A, try to rip us off and tell us that a bad deal is good,
We Anaheim fans, then explain why it makes no sense.

Then fans of team A start getting bent out of shape that we don't want their third liners and b/c level prospects

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01-15-2012, 11:24 PM
  #94
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Holding on to core players for lack of overpayment seems to have worked out quite well for Ottawa this year though, no?
Yep, and that is why I don't blame Ducks fans for having the same thinking/reasoning as we did a year ago. You've seen these guys win games in the past and there is no reason they can't do it again in the future. What I don't like is when fans try to rip our guys apart in a trade proposal because they don't want to move guys for anything less than what is an unrealistic offer. Politely decline and move on. Don't call guys who are playing very well scrubs and prospects drafted 6 months ago are busts. All it does is create hostile threads and turns into 'my guy is better than your guy'. It's not constructive and it borders on trolling. On both sides.

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01-15-2012, 11:33 PM
  #95
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I love how these discussions are always the same.

Fans of team A, try to rip us off and tell us that a bad deal is good,
We Anaheim fans, then explain why it makes no sense.

Then fans of team A start getting bent out of shape that we don't want their third liners and b/c level prospects
This thread isn't that bad compared to the Twitter rumor thread. Now that was an atrocity.

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01-15-2012, 11:36 PM
  #96
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We dont want to pay what they would need to move him,Ryan wont be moved neither will any of his linemates,this is nothing but sabre rattling by the gm to get some play out his team .The rpg line is something you build around not trade away piecemeal,trade some lessor players for picks and draft well ANA you have the core to make a quick turnaround next season

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01-15-2012, 11:40 PM
  #97
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I know more about Waffles than you... I've seen him in his boxers
Does DVM know this?

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Old
01-15-2012, 11:50 PM
  #98
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Yep, and that is why I don't blame Ducks fans for having the same thinking/reasoning as we did a year ago. You've seen these guys win games in the past and there is no reason they can't do it again in the future. What I don't like is when fans try to rip our guys apart in a trade proposal because they don't want to move guys for anything less than what is an unrealistic offer. Politely decline and move on. Don't call guys who are playing very well scrubs and prospects drafted 6 months ago are busts. All it does is create hostile threads and turns into 'my guy is better than your guy'. It's not constructive and it borders on trolling. On both sides.
Agreed. It's the result of 4 months of being told that the Ducks star players are worthless though - Selanne only worth a 2nd/3rd, Grabovski being a better player than Perry, Getzlaf being worth only a 1st and a couple free agents, etc. Also, Ryan being a worse player than a 3rd liner based on the 3rd liners potential because Ryan was slumping until a couple weeks ago and ignoring the fact he seems to be back to form. The fanbase is getting sensitive, I'm sure you can relate.

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01-15-2012, 11:52 PM
  #99
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Does DVM know this?
I keep trying to convince her (with limited success) what happens in the lounge should stay in the lounge. Waffles gets a pass because he kayaks though.

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01-16-2012, 12:03 AM
  #100
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I keep trying to convince her (with limited success) what happens in the lounge should stay in the lounge. Waffles gets a pass because he kayaks though.
You never give a pass. Milk that **** for all it's worth

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