I apologize... "Tanking" wasn't the best use of words.
What I meant was to simply sell some of our older assets (Jagr, Briere)... NOT TIMONEN. And in the process of getting rid of Jagr and Briere, I thought it would bring our team down to a higher draft position than we would get if we keep those 2.
I didn't mean to intentionally lose games or to trade guys away for nothing just to improve our draft slot.
I just meant that naturally, trading away guys like Briere + Jagr would likely leave us with a higher draft pick.
I'm okay with trading Briere, but Jagr has been a big part of The Flyers/Girouxs success this year. He was great until injured in the WC, and hasn't looked the same since. He doesn't look like he's having fun anymore, but I'm hoping he can turn it back around. It seems like Jagr's helping the young guys too.
How could we move up our draft spot by trading Briere? Getting picks, and trading up? I'm just wondering your strategy to impove our draft spot. What could they get for Briere? Where would he waive his NMC to go? Who would be interested? Also Couturier lives with him, so it seems very unlikely.
Do you realize that teams don't just tank on purpose? They may lose steam and play unmotivated, but they don't simply lose on purpose.
The reason that everyone disagrees with you is because what you're saying is flat out stupid.
You are an idiot.
This is the 4th time now that I've stated that "TANKING" WAS A BAD CHOICE OF WORDS.
I did not mean that the team should intentionally lose games. I meant that by trading pieces like Briere or Jagr for younger guys or picks, the team would inevitably do worse, thus lowering where we finish, thus improving our draft spot.
If you would actually read the whole thread instead of attacking me, you'd see that this is the 3rd or 4th time I've said this.
This is the 4th time now that I've stated that "TANKING" WAS A BAD CHOICE OF WORDS.
I did not mean that the team should intentionally lose games. I meant that by trading pieces like Briere or Jagr for younger guys or picks, the team would inevitably do worse, thus lowering where we finish, thus improving our draft spot.
If you would actually read the whole thread instead of attacking me, you'd see that this is the 3rd or 4th time I've said this.
Buy Buy Buy! I'd deal JVR (or more) for the right defenseman, then if any cap room is left go after a winger with an expiring contract (I like Tuomo Ruutu for that position). Otherwise I say just go after a Gleason-type defenseman to anchor that last pair with one of the rookies.
I wouldn't sell. I don't see why people have absolutely no faith in this team's chances to make a cup run. They've played pretty damn well all season. Everyone knows the playoffs are a completely different animal anyway.
Move high priced older players and upcoming UFA's for picks and young players.
Does not mean I gave up. Just do not think we can win it all with current older guys especially since Pronger went down. Unless Bryzgalov turns into mosnter and starts playing like Roy or Brodeur.
2. Our #1 goalie has a .890 save percentage and our backup is a 23 year old who has never shown the ability to carry a team for a long stretch of time.
And the team is still in 4th place with him playing like crap. So this teams pretty good.
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Originally Posted by sandlansd
3. Our starting lineup has 5 or 6 rookies (Couturier, Schenn, Read, Zolnierczyk / Rinaldo, Gustafsson / Bourdon (sometimes only 1 of those 2, but usually both))
A.) Last night was the first time Bourdon and Gus played together.
B.) Right now all thoose rookies are bottom 6 guys. They are not relied to score on and play well enough on both zones to where they could help contribute in the playoffs.
C.) You go out and sure up the defense, like people think they will and you bump a couple of those rookies out.
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Originally Posted by sandlansd
4. Our #1 scoring line relies heavily on a 39 year old legend who has lost a step and seems to have consistent groin problems and a scrappy winger having a career year?
Ok? I'm not sure your point here. I don't care how old he is and he didn't lose a step magically over a months time. He's hurting.
That scrappy winger was a winger on the best line of a team that went to the cup fianls and came within 2 wins of winning in, so not sure what you're getting at with that.
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Originally Posted by sandlansd
5. One of the only reasons we made it out of the first round last year, JVR, who was a playoff beast, is injured and he has been ineffective playing w/ said injury and it seems as if the current plan of the Flyers' brass is to have him continue playing injured until the offseason.
Huh? Come on man. Don't over exaggerate on this just to prove a point. He had 4 goals in that Buffalo series. He helped, but he wasn't a huge reason why they won. That kind of production is easily replaceable.
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Originally Posted by sandlansd
6. We have been consistently dominated by the Bruins and the Rangers... and we'd likely have to go through one or both of them in a physical 7 game series in order to make it to the Cup Finals.
I don't think the Flyers have been dominated by either. They are 1-1 against the Bruins this year, and although the Rangers are 3-0 against the Flyers i wouldn't call any of those games dominating wins. But to play to your point the years when the Flyers knocked the Canadians out of the playoffs the Flyers were owned by them in the regular season. So things can change.
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Originally Posted by sandlansd
7. Our defense is horrendous.
No it isn't. Sure its struggled, but it's not horrendous. Like I said earlier, you go sure up the defense and get in a couple steady guys to play as your #5/6 then guys like Carle and Meszaros don't have the be "the guy" on a pair with a rookie or a guy like Lijla.
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Originally Posted by sandlansd
I mean look, I know making the playoffs is really exciting and all, and maybe I'm spoiled, but I'm sick of just making it and "seeing what happens". This team isn't winning anything this year. It's blatantly obvious.
No it really isn't blatantly obvious. This time last year I don't think many people had Boston pegged to win the Cup, but you know what they did? They BOUGHT at the deadline and improved their team.
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Originally Posted by sandlansd
So why not look to the future? Why not see if guys like Jagr and Briere would be willing to go elsewhere for a legitimate chance @ a cup if trading them would improve our team? The hot start was fun, but it was always unsustainable.
Jagr's not gonna fetch you much on the trade market. He might draw you a mid round pick and a borderline prospect, but the Flyers have enough of those.
Also with regards to Jagr he has more value here. He's Voracek's idle. Voracek is also a RFA, it could be possible that Voracek would be open to taken a little less money to stay on the same team as his idle. Not saying it will happen, but it is possible.
And Briere isn't moving. He has kids and his ex wife also lives in the area I believe, so I find it hard to believe he'd be willing to wave, even if the Flyers asked him.
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Originally Posted by sandlansd
This team is exactly what we thought it was when the year began... a fringe playoff team. Why not move some of our older assets for some younger pieces / picks / prospects and in the process, improve our draft slot?
Lol a fringe playoff team? Since when does a 4th place team in the conference and 4 points out of the division race qualify as a fringe playoff team?
I honestly can't believe you would bring this up. Even though the Flyers haven't won a cup in 35 years, one thing I love and i'm sure other fans do(maybe except for you?) is the fact that this organization does everything in it's power to win a cup.
I do believe it would make sense to get promising youth on Defense to align with the rebuild the forwards are going through.
Many of us said the youth movement up front made little sense given how old our key D is, before the season started
Problem is there isn't much to sell of value. Briere won't waive and still has too much left on his contract. Jagr maybe you could get something but he's slowing down badly. Hartnell and timonen make sense to keep
I would love to move Briere but that's cause I can't stand him (I've said this numerous times before, I like what he's done for the team in the playoffs as well as for the young guys but I still don't like him). I would only move Jagr for the right price cause I feel like his work ethic is a good example for the younger guys. I'm almost positive the Flyers would still make the playoffs and like you said its not "tanking". This of course will never happen, Paul will no doubt go out overpay for a rental maybe at the expense of a decent player like Bourdon and a high draft pick
You guys are aware that Briere has a NMC, is a divorced father whose wife lives in the area, right? He's not going anywhere without his kids and since his wife shares custody, I can't see her willingly following her ex husband around to a new city. Briere isn't going anywhere. He picked Philly and rejected the Habs because of the media there so really, where would both he and his wife go? Back to Buffalo? Doubt it.
I think there will be a mini re-build at year's end. There are way too many defensive liabilities and with Pronger and Jagr likely done and who knows what Kimmo's plans are, things are going to look different next season...again.
I do believe it would make sense to get promising youth on Defense to align with the rebuild the forwards are going through.
Many of us said the youth movement up front made little sense given how old our key D is, before the season started
Problem is there isn't much to sell of value. Briere won't waive and still has too much left on his contract. Jagr maybe you could get something but he's slowing down badly. Hartnell and timonen make sense to keep
I wonder if Jagr would even report to another team if he were traded.
Carle can bring 1st round pick. Possible.
Timonen can bring 1st round pick. Why not?
Jagr can bring at least a 2nd
Briere is a tough one. I also do not think he agrees to waive his NTC but if Gomez was moved I believe in anything.
Thats almost 20Mil in salary, add Pronger LTIR and no Shelley. Young players, draft picks and huge amount of cap room. We can rebuild in one year.
Bryzgalov is basically untradable and a dead weight at this point. Give him another shot or send his ass to KHL.
So if Flyers decide to make some changes I would look into trading these guys.
Carle can bring 1st round pick. Possible.
Timonen can bring 1st round pick. Why not?
Jagr can bring at least a 2nd
Briere is a tough one. I also do not think he agrees to waive his NTC but if Gomez was moved I believe in anything.
Thats almost 20Mil in salary.
Bryzgalov is basically untradable and a dead weight at this point.
So if Flyers decide to make some changes I obviously I would look into trading these guys.
Timonen has a NTC
No way Carle gets a first
And Briere is not moving. Why even bring him up? Part of the reason Gomez got moved is because he has a limited no trade.
Timonen has a NTC
No way Carle gets a first
And Briere is not moving. Why even bring him up? Part of the reason Gomez got moved is because he has a limited no trade.
Ok read my ****ing post. You'll see possible, maybes and **** like that.
and I know TImonen has NTC but I also know he wants to win the cup
right, Calre who is on pace to score 50pts can not bring 1st.. wtf would you know?
If Pronger was healthy, we would not be having this conversation. Bruins mapped the floor with us last year, they did it this year too. If Pens get healthy they will do it too. I am not sure about NYR. Seems like they have our number this year too but I think we can take them. So why not fantasize about mini rebuild?
