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01-17-2012, 03:39 AM
  #26
PocketNines
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I gotta say, there is something intriguing in a Stewart-for-Iginla based swap, provided a few things:

1. New ownership arrives and oks the deal. Similar to Kariya's acquisition, new ownership wants to show willingness to bring in someone slightly on the expensive side. Iginla at the deadline would be due about 2M this year, 7M next then his contract is up, right at the same time new ones are due for Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Cole, Berglund, D'Agostini (and only the first two should be pricey).

2. The Blues do not trade Schwartz, Tarasenko or Rattie.

Here's the rationale. Schwartz is ultimately McDonald's replacement, so Perron-Steen-McDonald becomes Perron-Steen-Schwartz. With a trade around Stewart for Iginla, you've got Iginla-Oshie-D'Ags now, Iginla-Oshie-Tarasenko next year, and Rattie ultimately phases out Iginla even if Iginla signs on for a bit cheaper in his final two seasons or so.

So, the wings stay loaded now and well into the long-term future, even losing Stewart. Backes is a long-term center. Berglund either takes a leap forward and becomes the other top-two center, settles into a #3C role, or moves on in trade.

Iginla is a playoff difference maker. How much would you like the Blues' chances if they had Iginla, Arnott and Langenbrunner mixed in with all that young talent feeling good about itself up front? Those guys could teach the young inexperienced-but-talented core how to win. They'd provide resilience when inevitable adversity happens. How much would you love throwing Backes and Iginla at the Hawks, Wings, Canucks and Sharks?

What would they really be giving up? Stewart? Pfft. I can totally live with that if it means being a legitimate Cup threat this year. Halak was brought in to be a playoff goalie. So what if Iginla isn't the 80-90 pt Iginla of old? He's still on pace for about 64pts this year and knows how to lead a team deep in the playoffs by performing on the ice. That's what you're buying him for – the playoffs and a legit shot.

The Blues would have to add for sure. Not necessarily something unpalatable but Stewart + Grachev/Crombeen + 1st, Stewart + Grachev/Crombeen + decent prospect (but not one of the three top forward prospects).

And since the Flames just added Cammalleri it's definitely a deadline acquisition or until the 12th-place Flames realize just how futile a playoff berth is this season.

McDonald–Backes–Iginla
Perron–Arnott/Berglund-Oshie
Steen–Berglund/Arnott–D'Agostini
Sobotka–Nichol–Langenbrunner
Reaves, Crombeen

Perhaps add one more defenseman, but only a UFA rental since Iginla 7M on the books next year.

That's a serious playoff threat, to me. And if they wind up clinching home ice somehow, with the way this team plays at home? Whoa. Let's just say the idea has its merits.

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01-17-2012, 04:02 AM
  #27
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Hellsbells, certainly Iggy is a better player than Stewart and I think Iggy would make the Blues a better team today but there is more to consider. Iggy turns 35 July 1rst. He makes $7MM. Stewart turned 24 Oct 30th and makes $2.5MMish. Iggy gets 3+ minutes in ice time more per game than Stewart in large part because Stewart has underachieved. If the Blues thought Iggy was the missing piece to win the cup that could be a gamble worth taking however some in my opinion some are ready to give up far too early on Stewart and are the Blues at that point?

Iggy is 10+ years older than Stewart, makes $7MM, is a warrior, a leader and a sniper who is on the downside of his career. I believe he will be an UFA either after this season or next.

Stewart has not played as well as expected but is still young and has time to turn it up this season. Power forwards are tough to come by and Stewart will hopefully be a key cog in this Blues team and it's future. This management group has shown one of their best attributes is patience. In this thread some would make this deal, some wouldn't. It doesn't strengthen your position to say you need a new GM if he wouldn't make the deal.

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01-17-2012, 09:51 AM
  #28
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I whole-heartedly agree with PocketNines

I'd take Iggy for Stewart in a heartbeat. You can complain all day long about how he's so old, or his numbers are declining.

Well guess what? You don't make a trade like that for 10 years down the road. You make a trade like that for right here and right now. its so you have a shot today. We'll deal with tomorrow when it comes. If you've got a shot today, you better make it a darn good shot.

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01-17-2012, 10:41 AM
  #29
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The fickleness of Blues fans is no more apparent then threads like these. If asked to trade him last year while MBP was scoring at a 40 goal pace, everyone would call you crazy. Now that a young player is struggling, he has to be traded. May I remind you that the Blues are first in the west and this team has earned the right to play together, success of failure. If there is a no brained move for the FUTURE then you can consider moving a 24 year old power forward, but not until after the post season. By the end of the year he will be around 25 goals, we will be able to sign MBP long term at a lower value then once he hits 25 he will be the 30+ goal scorer we expected him to be. You don't sell the future because we have had a 1/2 season of success. You make the move when the team is a proven winner and you are one piece from winning the cup. Until then, enjoy the ride and LGB! This team has grown together and now is not the time to dismantle the team for some short term success. I would rather be a long term success, than a one and done. Maybe it's just me, but I trust army to manage his assets properly and a move like the OP is not a good use of our assets.

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01-17-2012, 11:16 AM
  #30
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First of all, with the Blues ownership questions still not answered, I do not see them taking on such a large salary right now. I would love to add Iginla but it depends on the cost on what else is available. The Blues have enough picks and quality prospects that they can probably make a trade for someone and not give up the farm. For a lot of trades like this in the past it has been a pick (1st round), and player who can fill a current NHL roster spot and a prospect and it goes from there. You could add value by adding draft picks or improving the player/prospect in the deal or whatever. My point is that the Blues could put together a package that includes their 1st, a player such as Dags/Berglund/Cole and a prospect such as Allen/Bishop/Macrae and probably get someone. There are other names that interest me like Staal, Getzlaf, Ryan and Parise that are just as appealing as Iginla.

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01-17-2012, 11:18 AM
  #31
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Easily do Stewart-Iginla straight up. No to the first offer though

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01-17-2012, 11:31 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmykay View Post
Well guess what? You don't make a trade like that for 10 years down the road. You make a trade like that for right here and right now. its so you have a shot today. We'll deal with tomorrow when it comes. If you've got a shot today, you better make it a darn good shot.
My opinion may be a little biased when it comes to Iginla, but I honestly think he has a lot more left in the tank than people realize. Yes, he's 34 yrs old, but he really hasn't had ANY major injuries in his pro career. And to me that's VERY signifigant. He did have a slow start at the beginning of this season, but he is now back on a point-per-game pace in his last 27 games on a team that very well may not make the play-offs. He also just came off of a 43 goal/86 point tally season last season. IMO, this guy really hasn't shown many signs of slowing down. Personally, I think he the kind of player that we may see still producing in his late 30's early 40's like Selänne. But again, that's just my opinion. Not saying we should trade for him, but a Stewart for Iginla deal looks awfully tempting to me.

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01-17-2012, 11:58 AM
  #33
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Really, it boils down to this. If Iginla leaves Calgary, it is going to be for a legitimate shot at the cup. The guy deserves it. (See Ray Bourque) It doesnt matter what we offer, if Iginla doesnt see us legitimately winning the cup, I doubt that there's any offer we could put up to bring him here.

With that said, I could see us as legitimate contenders. I think the trade deadline will be fun to watch.

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01-17-2012, 12:09 PM
  #34
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Stewie for Iggy straight, I'd go for it. Just wait we need for now to get more points on the board. Long term it sucks, but we have great prospects in Tara and Schwartz that will easy offset Stewie's team value.

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01-17-2012, 12:20 PM
  #35
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No thanks... on any of the proposals in this thread.

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01-17-2012, 01:47 PM
  #36
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For all of Meatwagon's protests otherwise, I've seen a lot of Jarome Iginla in his career, and plenty of Chris Stewart. They are not at all the same player. Yes if Chris Stewart were a 40 goal scorer things might be different. If Chris Stewart were a 50 goal scorer things might be different. You know what would really make it different? If Chris Stewart, were, like, a 60 goal scorer. Cut the 40-goal stuff. Chris Stewart is not a 40-goal scorer. That would make him a different player. Chris Stewart is not a power forward just because that feels good to write on a forum board. Sorry. Not a power forward. He doesn't forecheck all that well, he's not a big hitter, basically there's relatively little power in his game. So all this protest about how you don't trade this fictional Chris Stewart who is some X-men hero called "ManBearPig" for Iginla sure. But Actual Chris Stewart, who is lazy, inconsistent, and has been his whole career? Yeah, that's kind of a no-brainer. I don't think Calgary would do Stewart for Iginla straight, that's the problem. The Blues would have to add. I think they could avoid adding a core piece or prospect but they'd have to add.

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01-17-2012, 02:06 PM
  #37
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I have to admit, one of the things that has been most disappointing about Stewart isn't the lack of scoring. Its that he wins so few puck battles, battles on the boards, etc. He goes against players he seems like he should outmuscle, and then he just....doesn't.

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01-17-2012, 02:12 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I have to admit, one of the things that has been most disappointing about Stewart isn't the lack of scoring. Its that he wins so few puck battles, battles on the boards, etc. He goes against players he seems like he should outmuscle, and then he just....doesn't.
Especially when you see all the little guys win all the battles in the corners, like Perron, Sobotka, and Oshie to an extent, he still is technically a little guy.

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01-17-2012, 04:21 PM
  #39
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I wouldn't even trade Stewart straight up for Iginla. You don't trade a two time 28 goal forward for an aging 30 goal forward. In a few years Stewart will be the next Iginla. Do you want to give that up for a few extra goals. This season Iginla will end up with 10-12 more goals than Stewart. Is that worth Rattie(leading goal scorer and points leader in the WHL as a 18yr old)a first round pick in a deep draft and a second round pick. I don't, and I'm sure army wont either
I don't think you realize how good Jarome Iginla is.

Last season at the all star break, he was "done" as far as the hockey media was concerned. He and his team fended off outrageous trade rumors and calls for retirement. Then the "aging, 30 goal forward" ended up with 43 goals. On the Calgary Flames....

If Stewart can't create any space for himself (and he does it in a blue moon), he's largely useless offensively. He's soft on the boards, loses puck battles, has questionable vision and finds himself out of position frequently. Iginla is none of those things, and even as age takes its inevitable toll on his game, Iginla will be a better scorer now and in the future because he's one of the best shooters in the game and has been for the better part of a decade.

Stewart's young for sure, but since you opened this can, his career high(s) are child's play compared to Iginla, who's scored with a revolving door at center-no one elite, on a pretty dismal team. The guy hasn't scored under 30 goals since 99-00.

Come on now, Iginla for Stewart without any additional pieces. No brainer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I have to admit, one of the things that has been most disappointing about Stewart isn't the lack of scoring. Its that he wins so few puck battles, battles on the boards, etc. He goes against players he seems like he should outmuscle, and then he just....doesn't.
This is absolutely correct. I have the same gripe about Berglund. If you aren't contributing offensively, at least play hard off the puck and play fundamental, smart hockey.

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01-17-2012, 04:58 PM
  #40
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This is absolutely correct. I have the same gripe about Berglund. If you aren't contributing offensively, at least play hard off the puck and play fundamental, smart hockey.
This is what irritates me most about the people upset with Berglund. He may not look it because he's 6'4" with a long stride, but he is always playing hard when he gets out. He's winning a lot of battles in the corners when he goes in, and he's making things happen in the offensive zone. He's had a few bad games, but Berglund gets far more criticism than he deserves with the way he's played this year.

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01-17-2012, 05:18 PM
  #41
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This is absolutely correct. I have the same gripe about Berglund. If you aren't contributing offensively, at least play hard off the puck and play fundamental, smart hockey.
That's not what I'm seeing from Berglund. I see a guy that IS winning puck battles and playing solid defense. Its maddening that he doesn't manage to finish more of his golden scoring opportunities, but he has lots of other elements of his game working....the more important elements in Hitchcock's system. I'm happy with being more patient with him.

I want to see more from Stewart, more growth.

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01-17-2012, 05:28 PM
  #42
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This is what irritates me most about the people upset with Berglund. He may not look it because he's 6'4" with a long stride, but he is always playing hard when he gets out. He's winning a lot of battles in the corners when he goes in, and he's making things happen in the offensive zone. He's had a few bad games, but Berglund gets far more criticism than he deserves with the way he's played this year.
"Making things happen" is vague. He's solid on board battles and good at keeping a cycle alive which is his best offensive asset. But he's not setting guys up and he's not getting in shooting position and when he does (rarely) he's not converting. This isn't a few games thing, either, it's been season-long.

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01-17-2012, 06:43 PM
  #43
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Nacho,
Am I not allowed to protest? Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm wrong. You may disagree with me that's fine, that's what opinions are for.

Saying I don't know how good Iginla, is a little silly. The guys a 1st ballot hall of famer and redefined the "power forward" position. We would be extremely lucky if Stewart came anywhere close to iggy's career. I doubt that he will.

What I don't like about moving Stewart right now is because he is still really young and big bodied forwards take a little time to fully develop. He's a project, he was when he was drafted and he is today. I don't believe he will ever touch 40 goals, hes more likely a guy who produces like Backes does. I would rather have Backes production for 6-7 years than 1-2 years of Iginla. If you disagree that's great. I was simply pointing out that Stewart was considered a budding power forward during his time with the Blues last year. He was on pace for 37 or so goals. Which is why I said he maybe a 40 goal scorer. Natural progression is expected, but he has taken a big step back this year, that is almost undebatable. Does that mean you trade him? I don't think so. You have to let these guys(Stewart/Bergy) play through their struggles and they have to learn from their own personal short comings. The Blues are doing pretty darn good last time I checked even though those two guys aren't producing.

At the beginning of the season, Oshie had a slow start and half of the people were adiment about trading him, and guess what he was allowed to fight through his struggles and now he is our most dynamic forward. I think most people would be kicking themselves if we did trade Oshie. I feel that way about Stewart and even more about Berglund. These guys have all of the potential to be difference makers, they just aren't being fully utilized. Both Bergy and Stewart need play makers to set them up. Stewart needs someone to battle in the corners so he can slide into the quite areas of the ice and use his hands to score. He was showing some of that with Perron but he is too much of a defensive liability to play on Backes' line. Not everyone can play like Backes and people need to understand that. Having Steen and Mac out right now REALLY hurts Stewarts production. The Blues gave up their former #1 pick for him, they will give him time to establish what kind of player he will become.

I personally feel that the Blues should stand pat until Steen and Mac are back and see where the offensive production is. If the offense is still struggling to score with those 2 back in the lineup and we finally figure out who is signing the paychecks (probably the Blues biggest hurdle to adding payroll) then a move might make sense. I trust Army's asset management and if he feels that he NEEDS to trade one of Bergy or Stewart then so be it.

Just because the Blues are starting to see the fruits of their labor, shouldn't mean they change the organization's development model. They are building a team that should have sustained success, not a one year blip on the radar. Moving assets that are a big part of the future for a 1-2 year player(I don't know how much longer Iggy's going to play, could be 2 years could be 5, who knows) I just don't want to see the team trade away the future to take one shot and be in a rebuild mode next year.

Player personal aside, the Blues will never be able to spend to the cap and when you add 7+ million dollar contracts, you have to move other players who we would of been able to sign long term but can't because we get saddled with a expensive long term deal(although Iggy's doesn't have a ton of years left in his current deal). But when Oshie, Stewart, Berglund, Pietrangelo,Perron Shattenkirk will all be due large raises in the very near future and when you have big contracts on a small market budget, it means that three of those players will not be re-signed. That's a big issue for me too, we've all waited 6 years for these players to mature and they are finally showing that promise. It would be a shame to develop these guys, have to go through the aches and pains of rebuilding to let them walk because of a knee jerk reaction trade the ruins the teams current payroll structure.

If we had unlimited funds and knew for sure that Tank and Schwartz were going to make the team next year, then you can make a move like the OP's. But when you aren't 100% sure tank is coming over(I do think he will) and that Jaden can step in and contribute(he may need a year in Peoria). It's a hard sell to trade a bunch of young cost controlled players. For one expensive aging player.

Even with all of that said. The Blues are close to being Stanley cup contenders, but they are still on the outside looking in. They aren't playoff tested and that shouldn't be overlooked. But if they are really close and one piece like Iginla makes them favorites, then you have to pull the trigger. I just think the Blues aren't quite there yet, and shouldn't deviate from the model that has gotten them to this point.

That's all, I've said my peace. If you still think my P.O.V. is wrong or stupid, that's fine, but don't act like your opinion is the only one that matters and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong.


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01-17-2012, 06:53 PM
  #44
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That's not what I'm seeing from Berglund. I see a guy that IS winning puck battles and playing solid defense. Its maddening that he doesn't manage to finish more of his golden scoring opportunities, but he has lots of other elements of his game working....the more important elements in Hitchcock's system. I'm happy with being more patient with him.

I want to see more from Stewart, more growth.
I see Berglund winning some battles but I don't think a large amount of his overall game is working. He's incompetent when the puck is on his stick coming over the offensive blue line. He CONSTANTLY overskates the puck or pushes it too far ahead of himself and consequently it's turned over.

The times he does win battles and has a bit of space, he looks clueless as to what comes next. He's indecisive curling out from below the goal line where as a guy like D'agostini (less skilled, less HUGE) makes a good pass to the D, through a seam to the opposite side , or, like the Edmonton and Montreal games, puts the puck on net.

I hate that Berglund has become the whipping boy and I hate that I contribute to that but he's too soft and at this point, he's the embodiment of a guy with all the tools and a small toolbox. With Berglund's raw skill, he should be a two way force. Look at Backes objectively. Now, I love the guy but aside from a thoroughly primal compete level, why is he a better hockey player than Berglund?

I want Berglund to succeed. It was exciting drafting the guy and watching him hit his stride in spots but with the current incarnation of the team, he's had AMPLE opportunity to succeed. He's benefited from playing solid minutes and has been sheltered defensively. He's just so enigmatic.

He's still better than Stewart in all facets of the game. I'm hoping when Steen comes back they'll shuffle the lines around and he'll get time with Backes and Perron up top. They did it for Stewart, and while we have some depth down the middle, I'd like to see Berglund get an opportunity with the captain.

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01-17-2012, 07:08 PM
  #45
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I see Berglund winning some battles but I don't think a large amount of his overall game is working. He's incompetent when the puck is on his stick coming over the offensive blue line. He CONSTANTLY overskates the puck or pushes it too far ahead of himself and consequently it's turned over.

The times he does win battles and has a bit of space, he looks clueless as to what comes next. He's indecisive curling out from below the goal line where as a guy like D'agostini (less skilled, less HUGE) makes a good pass to the D, through a seam to the opposite side , or, like the Edmonton and Montreal games, puts the puck on net.

I hate that Berglund has become the whipping boy and I hate that I contribute to that but he's too soft and at this point, he's the embodiment of a guy with all the tools and a small toolbox. With Berglund's raw skill, he should be a two way force. Look at Backes objectively. Now, I love the guy but aside from a thoroughly primal compete level, why is he a better hockey player than Berglund?

I want Berglund to succeed. It was exciting drafting the guy and watching him hit his stride in spots but with the current incarnation of the team, he's had AMPLE opportunity to succeed. He's benefited from playing solid minutes and has been sheltered defensively. He's just so enigmatic.

He's still better than Stewart in all facets of the game. I'm hoping when Steen comes back they'll shuffle the lines around and he'll get time with Backes and Perron up top. They did it for Stewart, and while we have some depth down the middle, I'd like to see Berglund get an opportunity with the captain.
Berglund can't play the wing and Backes is staying at center, so that won't happen. I wouldn't mind seeing Steen with Berglund or Stewart though, just because every line Steen goes on they seem to produce, so maybe he can get them going.

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01-17-2012, 07:23 PM
  #46
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Nacho,
Am I not allowed to protest? Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm wrong. You may disagree with me that's fine, that's what opinions are for.

Saying I don't know how good Iginla, is a little silly. The guys a 1st ballot hall of famer and redefined the "power forward" position. We would be extremely lucky if Stewart came anywhere close to iggy's career. I doubt that he will.

What I don't like about moving Stewart right now is because he is still really young and big bodied forwards take a little time to fully develop. He's a project, he was when he was drafted and he is today. I don't believe he will ever touch 40 goals, hes more likely a guy who produces like Backes does. I would rather have Backes production for 6-7 years than 1-2 years of Iginla. If you disagree that's great. I was simply pointing out that Stewart was considered a budding power forward during his time with the Blues last year. He was on pace for 37 or so goals. Which is why I said he maybe a 40 goal scorer. Natural progression is expected, but he has taken a big step back this year, that is almost undebatable. Does that mean you trade him? I don't think so. You have to let these guys(Stewart/Bergy) play through their struggles and they have to learn from their own personal short comings. The Blues are doing pretty darn good last time I checked even though those two guys aren't producing.

At the beginning of the season, Oshie had a slow start and half of the people were adiment about trading him, and guess what he was allowed to fight through his struggles and now he is our most dynamic forward. I think most people would be kicking themselves if we did trade Oshie. I feel that way about Stewart and even more about Berglund. These guys have all of the potential to be difference makers, they just aren't being fully utilized. Both Bergy and Stewart need play makers to set them up. Stewart needs someone to battle in the corners so he can slide into the quite areas of the ice and use his hands to score. He was showing some of that with Perron but he is too much of a defensive liability to play on Backes' line. Not everyone can play like Backes and people need to understand that. Having Steen and Mac out right now REALLY hurts Stewarts production. The Blues gave up their former #1 pick for him, they will give him time to establish what kind of player he will become.

I personally feel that the Blues should stand pat until Steen and Mac are back and see where the offensive production is. If the offense is still struggling to score with those 2 back in the lineup and we finally figure out who is signing the paychecks (probably the Blues biggest hurdle to adding payroll) then a move might make sense. I trust Army's asset management and if he feels that he NEEDS to trade one of Bergy or Stewart then so be it.

Just because the Blues are starting to see the fruits of their labor, shouldn't mean they change the organization's development model. They are building a team that should have sustained success, not a one year blip on the radar. Moving assets that are a big part of the future for a 1-2 year player(I don't know how much longer Iggy's going to play, could be 2 years could be 5, who knows) I just don't want to see the team trade away the future to take one shot and be in a rebuild mode next year.

Player personal aside, the Blues will never be able to spend to the cap and when you add 7+ million dollar contracts, you have to move other players who we would of been able to sign long term but can't because we get saddled with a expensive long term deal(although Iggy's doesn't have a ton of years left in his current deal). But when Oshie, Stewart, Berglund, Pietrangelo,Perron Shattenkirk will all be due large raises in the very near future and when you have big contracts on a small market budget, it means that three of those players will not be re-signed. That's a big issue for me too, we've all waited 6 years for these players to mature and they are finally showing that promise. It would be a shame to develop these guys, have to go through the aches and pains of rebuilding to let them walk because of a knee jerk reaction trade the ruins the teams current payroll structure.

If we had unlimited funds and knew for sure that Tank and Schwartz were going to make the team next year, then you can make a move like the OP's. But when you aren't 100% sure tank is coming over(I do think he will) and that Jaden can step in and contribute(he may need a year in Peoria). It's a hard sell to trade a bunch of young cost controlled players. For one expensive aging player.

Even with all of that said. The Blues are close to being Stanley cup contenders, but they are still on the outside looking in. They aren't playoff tested and that shouldn't be overlooked. But if they are really close and one piece like Iginla makes them favorites, then you have to pull the trigger. I just think the Blues aren't quite there yet, and shouldn't deviate from the model that has gotten them to this point.

That's all, I've said my peace. If you still think my P.O.V. is wrong or stupid, that's fine, but don't act like your opinion is the only one that matters and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong.


Well said.

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01-17-2012, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Berglund can't play the wing and Backes is staying at center, so that won't happen. I wouldn't mind seeing Steen with Berglund or Stewart though, just because every line Steen goes on they seem to produce, so maybe he can get them going.
Sure it won't happen but this team is full of pivots. I wouldn't mind seeing Berglund on Backes' line, if for no other purpose than for Berglund to see first hand what a center with a little size and skill can do. A guy needs to be able to dream (and analyze)!

He just does not put complete games together. My guess is they'll bump D'agostini down and go Berglund in between Oshie and Stewart. Christ, if Steen can't inspire you to up your compete level, I'm not sure anyone else can. Thankfully Oshie has chemistry with Berglund (and Backes and Perron...) and Steen will do his thing regardless of who his line mates are, so we have options.

I hope I speak for everybody in saying that I'm very thankful Arnott has come in and handled himself like the true professional he is. He and Nichol have really given the coach/GM quite a bit of alternatives. Not many teams are able to just shuffle underachieving players around in an effort to get them going without suffering a bit throughout the line up.

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01-17-2012, 07:49 PM
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Well said.
+2

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01-17-2012, 10:09 PM
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Nacho,
Am I not allowed to protest? Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm wrong. You may disagree with me that's fine, that's what opinions are for.

Saying I don't know how good Iginla, is a little silly. The guys a 1st ballot hall of famer and redefined the "power forward" position. We would be extremely lucky if Stewart came anywhere close to iggy's career. I doubt that he will.

What I don't like about moving Stewart right now is because he is still really young and big bodied forwards take a little time to fully develop. He's a project, he was when he was drafted and he is today. I don't believe he will ever touch 40 goals, hes more likely a guy who produces like Backes does. I would rather have Backes production for 6-7 years than 1-2 years of Iginla. If you disagree that's great. I was simply pointing out that Stewart was considered a budding power forward during his time with the Blues last year. He was on pace for 37 or so goals. Which is why I said he maybe a 40 goal scorer. Natural progression is expected, but he has taken a big step back this year, that is almost undebatable. Does that mean you trade him? I don't think so. You have to let these guys(Stewart/Bergy) play through their struggles and they have to learn from their own personal short comings. The Blues are doing pretty darn good last time I checked even though those two guys aren't producing.

At the beginning of the season, Oshie had a slow start and half of the people were adiment about trading him, and guess what he was allowed to fight through his struggles and now he is our most dynamic forward. I think most people would be kicking themselves if we did trade Oshie. I feel that way about Stewart and even more about Berglund. These guys have all of the potential to be difference makers, they just aren't being fully utilized. Both Bergy and Stewart need play makers to set them up. Stewart needs someone to battle in the corners so he can slide into the quite areas of the ice and use his hands to score. He was showing some of that with Perron but he is too much of a defensive liability to play on Backes' line. Not everyone can play like Backes and people need to understand that. Having Steen and Mac out right now REALLY hurts Stewarts production. The Blues gave up their former #1 pick for him, they will give him time to establish what kind of player he will become.

I personally feel that the Blues should stand pat until Steen and Mac are back and see where the offensive production is. If the offense is still struggling to score with those 2 back in the lineup and we finally figure out who is signing the paychecks (probably the Blues biggest hurdle to adding payroll) then a move might make sense. I trust Army's asset management and if he feels that he NEEDS to trade one of Bergy or Stewart then so be it.

Just because the Blues are starting to see the fruits of their labor, shouldn't mean they change the organization's development model. They are building a team that should have sustained success, not a one year blip on the radar. Moving assets that are a big part of the future for a 1-2 year player(I don't know how much longer Iggy's going to play, could be 2 years could be 5, who knows) I just don't want to see the team trade away the future to take one shot and be in a rebuild mode next year.

Player personal aside, the Blues will never be able to spend to the cap and when you add 7+ million dollar contracts, you have to move other players who we would of been able to sign long term but can't because we get saddled with a expensive long term deal(although Iggy's doesn't have a ton of years left in his current deal). But when Oshie, Stewart, Berglund, Pietrangelo,Perron Shattenkirk will all be due large raises in the very near future and when you have big contracts on a small market budget, it means that three of those players will not be re-signed. That's a big issue for me too, we've all waited 6 years for these players to mature and they are finally showing that promise. It would be a shame to develop these guys, have to go through the aches and pains of rebuilding to let them walk because of a knee jerk reaction trade the ruins the teams current payroll structure.

If we had unlimited funds and knew for sure that Tank and Schwartz were going to make the team next year, then you can make a move like the OP's. But when you aren't 100% sure tank is coming over(I do think he will) and that Jaden can step in and contribute(he may need a year in Peoria). It's a hard sell to trade a bunch of young cost controlled players. For one expensive aging player.

Even with all of that said. The Blues are close to being Stanley cup contenders, but they are still on the outside looking in. They aren't playoff tested and that shouldn't be overlooked. But if they are really close and one piece like Iginla makes them favorites, then you have to pull the trigger. I just think the Blues aren't quite there yet, and shouldn't deviate from the model that has gotten them to this point.

That's all, I've said my peace. If you still think my P.O.V. is wrong or stupid, that's fine, but don't act like your opinion is the only one that matters and anyone who doesn't agree is wrong.
First of all, what the? Please, go beat up that strawman some more. "Saying I don't know how good Iginla (is), is a little silly." Yeah, way to be all outraged. Oh wait, I never said you said that? (Insert Citizen Kane clap).

Your last paragraph is total horse---t. YOU began by calling any Blues fans "fickle" who think Stewart is exactly what Avs fans said he was – that's what I was referring to by your "protests." That's an accurate description of your position. You were protesting Blues fans talking about trading him. Your frothingly tiresome tirade against what I didn't say is nice and all, but even Ken Hitchcock in JR's piece later tonight is citing Stewart's lack of offensive production. Berglund basically called him lazy when he said in one of JR's Morning Skates that not everyone on his line was working hard every shift. So spare me all this self-pity that I've said you can't have an opinion or nobody can have an opinion but me. What a joke. What a freaking strawman and I can't believe two people actually bought into it. That's some real mental softness there. You find me where I said that or "acted like" that or realize that you're out of line here. It really does piss me off when I get accused of things I don't do. Do I argue my positions forcefully? Yes. But spare me the pity party.

Look, I get that you want him to be a power forward. If Stewart were a power forward, it would give the argument "You can't trade a young budding power forward" much more oomph, more zazz. But he plays nothing like a power forward. Honestly. Are you even watching these games? You really think any objective measure of Stewart's play this year can be characterized as "power forward?" Wigga please. It's not Blues fans who are fickle, it's Chris Stewart's on ice performance that's fickle and some are capable of soberly noticing it.

As for your whole piece about spending, I will simply point you to the very first condition I said where the trade might make sense. I think it's pretty obvious I understand exactly what the budget issues are. Iginla's contract expires before the two big raises are due, and McDonald's contract comes off the books at the end of next year too. Iginla's never going to get 7M on his next deal. He's already made his money. He'll finish his career like most top vets do, taking a salary that fits with the team he thinks will help him win a Cup.

It's fine you think Stewart will become something special. Nobody ever said you couldn't believe that so spare me the fainting vapors.

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01-17-2012, 10:49 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
First of all, what the? Please, go beat up that strawman some more. "Saying I don't know how good Iginla (is), is a little silly." Yeah, way to be all outraged. Oh wait, I never said you said that? (Insert Citizen Kane clap).

Your last paragraph is total horse---t. YOU began by calling any Blues fans "fickle" who think Stewart is exactly what Avs fans said he was – that's what I was referring to by your "protests." That's an accurate description of your position. You were protesting Blues fans talking about trading him. Your frothingly tiresome tirade against what I didn't say is nice and all, but even Ken Hitchcock in JR's piece later tonight is citing Stewart's lack of offensive production. Berglund basically called him lazy when he said in one of JR's Morning Skates that not everyone on his line was working hard every shift. So spare me all this self-pity that I've said you can't have an opinion or nobody can have an opinion but me. What a joke. What a freaking strawman and I can't believe two people actually bought into it. That's some real mental softness there. You find me where I said that or "acted like" that or realize that you're out of line here. It really does piss me off when I get accused of things I don't do. Do I argue my positions forcefully? Yes. But spare me the pity party.

Look, I get that you want him to be a power forward. If Stewart were a power forward, it would give the argument "You can't trade a young budding power forward" much more oomph, more zazz. But he plays nothing like a power forward. Honestly. Are you even watching these games? You really think any objective measure of Stewart's play this year can be characterized as "power forward?" Wigga please. It's not Blues fans who are fickle, it's Chris Stewart's on ice performance that's fickle and some are capable of soberly noticing it.

As for your whole piece about spending, I will simply point you to the very first condition I said where the trade might make sense. I think it's pretty obvious I understand exactly what the budget issues are. Iginla's contract expires before the two big raises are due, and McDonald's contract comes off the books at the end of next year too. Iginla's never going to get 7M on his next deal. He's already made his money. He'll finish his career like most top vets do, taking a salary that fits with the team he thinks will help him win a Cup.

It's fine you think Stewart will become something special. Nobody ever said you couldn't believe that so spare me the fainting vapors.
This deserves some claps too.

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