Hey there, maybe I'll call in sometime, and sharply raise the level of discussion.
But then again, best to silent and be thought a fool, than to call in and remove all doubt.
I sort of like to believe that every person that calls in, does so with the belief that they're going to present him/herself as this eloquent, well-spoken, intelligent fan full of great insight. But when then they actually get on-air, the stumbling begins and it all goes to hell.
Overall it was a good effort, can't really say that anyone was bad. Aside from the key players I thought the Miettinen - Stapleton - Fehr line was actually pretty good, they had several good scoring chances early in the game.
Wellwood pissed me off a few times for passing when he had a clear shot from in close. I was even swearing at him when he passed back to Enstrom when he had the goalie moving across late and 1/4 of the net open. Of course Enstrom scored and that shut me up
I've lost all respect for Neil for going after Kane. Neil's job is an enforcer but going after the other teams star player is a ***** move. The refs would have been smart to not give Kane a penalty and give the Jets a 4min PP. Whenever something like that happens there is an opportunity for the game to get out of hand, for example if one of the Jets took a cheap shot at a star on Ottawa or if Thorburn had dropped the gloves and started sucker-punching Spezza. They handled it alright giving the Jets the 2min PP, I just would've liked to have seen more.
I sort of like to believe that every person that calls in, does so with the belief that they're going to present him/herself as this eloquent, well-spoken, intelligent fan full of great insight. But when then they actually get on-air, the stumbling begins and it all goes to hell.
I'd put money on that. It's much easier to sit and think and have backspace on an internet messageboard, but when you are sitting on hold waiting to go on, you start thinking too much then SHOWTIME!
As for the discussion about Miettenen, I think he has been pretty much as advertised. Unfortunately some people measure forwards exclusively by goals for, so Mitts will never win in their eyes.
Miettenen has been great defensively, awesome pk'er. Besides a couple of ugly games we have been pretty great defensively and he is a reason why.
Sure, he will need to chip in more but him and Fehr seem to have chemistry (that great pass from behind the next back against the flow of play to Fehr was nice), so I think those guys would make a great 3rd line with Ladd, given some time.
Ottawa deserved to lose that one. God I hate divers. I really like Karlsson, but I just wanted someone to destroy his stupid little diving body in that game.
Overall it was a good effort, can't really say that anyone was bad. Aside from the key players I thought the Miettinen - Stapleton - Fehr line was actually pretty good, they had several good scoring chances early in the game.
Wellwood pissed me off a few times for passing when he had a clear shot from in close. I was even swearing at him when he passed back to Enstrom when he had the goalie moving across late and 1/4 of the net open. Of course Enstrom scored and that shut me up
I've lost all respect for Neil for going after Kane. Neil's job is an enforcer but going after the other teams star player is a ***** move. The refs would have been smart to not give Kane a penalty and give the Jets a 4min PP. Whenever something like that happens there is an opportunity for the game to get out of hand, for example if one of the Jets took a cheap shot at a star on Ottawa or if Thorburn had dropped the gloves and started sucker-punching Spezza. They handled it alright giving the Jets the 2min PP, I just would've liked to have seen more.
Still have no idea why Kane ended up in the box there. He didn't do anything to warrant a penalty. It really should have been a four minute PP.
As for the discussion about Miettenen, I think he has been pretty much as advertised. Unfortunately some people measure forwards exclusively by goals for, so Mitts will never win in their eyes.
Miettenen has been great defensively, awesome pk'er. Besides a couple of ugly games we have been pretty great defensively and he is a reason why.
Sure, he will need to chip in more but him and Fehr seem to have chemistry (that great pass from behind the next back against the flow of play to Fehr was nice), so I think those guys would make a great 3rd line with Ladd, given some time.
this isnt true...he and fehr were both advertised as potential 20/40 players....what you are describing are the attributes of a 4th (checking) line player...we already have a 4th line that cant score...we need a third line that can.
defence is obviously important but it cant be a third line winger's exclusive contribution....when your role is to be on the third line, being outscored by the goalie isnt acceptable.
the issue brought up is why is he playing on the power play?...he is almost getting the same minutes as kane.....if he cant be measured by offensive output then why would he be used in that situation....it cant be for his defence.
this isnt true...he and fehr were both advertised as 20/40 players....what you are describing are the attributes of a 4th (checking) line player...we already have a 4th line that cant score...we need a third line that can.
defence is obviously important but it cant be a third line winger's exclusive contribution....when your role is to be on the third line, being outscored by the goalie isnt acceptable.
the issue brought up is why is he playing on the power play?...he is almost getting the same minutes as kane.....if he cant be measured by offensive output then why would he be used in that situation....it cant be for his defence.
Miettenen a 20/40 guy? Where are you getting that from?
As a matter of fact, people from Minnesota warned us he was not going to score for us. He returned to the NHL well into the season and is still, in my mind working his way back into NHL game shape. If you thought he was a 20/40 guy you were listening to the wrong people, thats why you do a little digging before letting expectations get the best of you and calling the guy a terrible player.
As for Fehr, its starting to come. I think he will finish the year strong (barring injury) and will have a much better year next year (if he is re-signed)
Miettenen at best is a 15/35 guy. AT BEST. He is a great defensive forward who is versatile and has smarts. There is nothing wrong with a guy like that on your 3rd line.
As for him on the PP? He moves the puck around nicely. I'll leave it up to the coach to decide who he thinks has EARNED the cherry minutes on the PP
As a matter of fact, people from Minnesota warned us he was not going to score for us. He returned to the NHL well into the season and is still, in my mind working his way back into NHL game shape. If you thought he was a 20/40 guy you were listening to the wrong people, thats why you do a little digging before letting expectations get the best of you and calling the guy a terrible player.
As for Fehr, its starting to come. I think he will finish the year strong (barring injury) and will have a much better year next year (if he is re-signed)
Miettenen at best is a 15/35 guy. AT BEST. He is a great defensive forward who is versatile and has smarts. There is nothing wrong with a guy like that on your 3rd line.
As for him on the PP? He moves the puck around nicely. I'll leave it up to the coach to decide who he thinks has EARNED the cherry minutes on the PP
well, considering that in his last 4 seasons he has averaged 17 goals and 41 points, i would hardly consider calling him a potential 20/40 guy out of line....he has had more than 40 points 2 of his last 3 seasons....i dont see your logic.
he is a -7...the 4th worst +/- on the entire team and he has played 1/3 the number of games as everyone else.....how exactly is that a great defensive forward?...he's only been a plus once in his entire career.
he moves the puck around nicely?....really?...he is being outscored by pavalec while playing 2 minutes a night on the PP.
i admire your optimism, but i find it difficult to justify the offensive performance of both fehr and miettenen.
I like Miettinen's defensive game to date, even though he does have a -7, that's not always a true reflection of ones defensive game. Sometimes it is, I won't deny that, I just don't think it always is. For example, while Miettinen is a -7, most of that number (-5, to be exact) has come after the new year here where our entire team has hit the wall, so to me, this is more of a number that reflects the poor play of the team right now. I'm not saying Miettinen is not apart of it, he is, but I won't go as far to say his -7 is a distinct example of him playing poor defensively.
I would like to see a little bit more offense though, and I don't think that's asking too much. A few goals would help, and we do indeed NEED some sort of production from him at some point here, that is a fact. He has given us a player that Noel likes and can trust to play more than 5-7 minutes a game, which is good.
I really liked Miettinen vs. Boston last week, he had no fear and was getting right in the mix, taking hits, playing hard along the boards, etc. That aspect of his game really stood out to me in that game. I loved it.
I do believe he will come along here. I have liked what I've seen out of Miettinen and Fehr recently, so if these efforts can turn into a bit of production for us from the 3rd line, i'll be very pleased.
Haven't read the balance of this thread but the stars of last night's game were Noel & his staff. They had the Jets as a group trapping, checking, and blocking the passing lanes incredibly well. Ottawa couldn't get anything started. The way to hide a defense that is shorthanded due injury is to limit the opposition's quality of opportunities as a group; that is exactly what the coaching staff accomplished last night for 55+ minutes of the game.
The forwards were also head-manning the puck consistently.
this isnt true...he and fehr were both advertised as potential 20/40 players....what you are describing are the attributes of a 4th (checking) line player...we already have a 4th line that cant score...we need a third line that can.
defence is obviously important but it cant be a third line winger's exclusive contribution....when your role is to be on the third line, being outscored by the goalie isnt acceptable.
the issue brought up is why is he playing on the power play?...he is almost getting the same minutes as kane.....if he cant be measured by offensive output then why would he be used in that situation....it cant be for his defence.
I agree. The third line still needs to be upgraded. Unfortunately, it needs to be upgraded by upgrading the 1st and 2nd lines and sliding some guys like Antro down to the 3rd so that they can easily roll four lines. It's going to take awhile for that to happen though, but I believe it will. Meanwhile, I'm not worried about the 4th line's scoring pace...
"We didn’t play as planned and they did a good job in the neutral zone and they limited us to only a few scoring chances and their goalie played great,” said defenceman Erik Karlsson. “We didn’t come up to our normal standard.”
I'd personally like to see Noel roll with Mason tonight. What we had last night was to a tee, perfect. I would try everything in my power to have an identical performance tonight and hope we carry over exactly what we did last night to tonight's game vs. NJ.
Mason hasn't played a whole lot of games, he'll still be fresh. I'd roll with with worked so well last night.
I agree. The third line still needs to be upgraded. Unfortunately, it needs to be upgraded by upgrading the 1st and 2nd lines and sliding some guys like Antro down to the 3rd so that they can easily roll four lines. It's going to take awhie for that to happen though, but I believe it will. Meanwhile, I'm not worried about the 4th line's scoring pace...
Good points. I agree. It is as much a cascading effect as it is underperformance by fehr and mietenen.
In the end though I see no justification for mietenen being on the first line power play.
I'm not concerned about our fourth line scoring either, but I am concerned that our fourth line is better than our third line.
I think GST should not be broken up the way they have been. Keep them together as a shut down line. They are great.
this isnt true...he and fehr were both advertised as potential 20/40 players....what you are describing are the attributes of a 4th (checking) line player...we already have a 4th line that cant score...we need a third line that can.
defence is obviously important but it cant be a third line winger's exclusive contribution....when your role is to be on the third line, being outscored by the goalie isnt acceptable.
the issue brought up is why is he playing on the power play?...he is almost getting the same minutes as kane.....if he cant be measured by offensive output then why would he be used in that situation....it cant be for his defence.
I understand your position Peter, but I think that there are reasons for both Fehr and Mittens numbers. I'm not trying to make "excuses", but just looking at goals and points per game for these guys isn't really a deep enough analysis IMO.
Fehr came to the Jets with probably more hooplah than he deserved mainly due to him being a local kid. Nobody really knew what to expect from him. He was a high scoring junior player, high draft pick, and put up decent numbers without top line minutes in Washington. But, he also had some terrible shoulder injuries, and no one knew how he would recover.
So, to this point he has played 21 games, and has 1 goal and 1 assist. That is obviously not good. But how many games did it take for him to get much more than 5 or 6 minutes a game? I would consider the first 5-10 games as almost irrelevant considering he didn't get a training camp, and was coming off major shoulder surgery. I think we are really only looking at a sample size of 11-16 games on this guy. Plus, looking at the stats, he has the lowest ice time of any of our "starters". He is averaging a little over 9 minutes a game. Stapleton is the next closest at 10, and then you have GST which is 13, 15, and 10 respectively.
Not trying to say that Fehr doesn't need to pick it up. I just think there are factors involved in his stats to this point. It seems like he has picked it up lately as his last 5 games or so have been better than anything all year. Let's see how he does in the second half.
I think Mittens is kind of in the same boat. Sure he only has 2 assists in 13 games. I would defiantly like to see more from him. He came from the KHL, hadn't played for a while, didn't go through training camp with the team, and moved his family across the world. I think like Fehr he is also playing better lately.
Not saying that either of them couldn't be upgraded at some point. I just think both have been playing better in the last 5 or 6 games or so, and I also think their points per game stat doesn't tell the whole story with these guys. Plus, we don't have anyone to replace them with anyway.
As for Mittens powerplay time, besides last night I haven't really noticed him a lot out there. His 51 seconds per game is only ahead of Fehr (19 seconds), Slater (10 seconds), Thorburn (5 seconds), and Glass (5 seconds). A lot of that might be coming lately though.
Friendly ManiBROba
deserved to lose that one. God I hate divers. I really like Karlsson, but I just wanted someone to destroy his stupid little diving body in that game.
