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Leafs to honour Sundin - Feb 11 vs Habs

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01-19-2012, 10:43 AM
  #51
nsleaf
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Good player/leader when he was here, but should be put into perspective because the Leafs never really accomplished very much during his captaincy. Not that it was all his fault, but in the real world leaders are judged by what they accomplish.

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01-19-2012, 11:07 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
What did he do then? Since you're apparently defending that stance.
He was the main reason we were as good as we were.

We have more real core pieces now then we ever did in Mats prime (outside of a goalie). With the team we iced, every year was bound to get worse as aged players declined.

As an individual, Mats contributed more to his team than any Leaf in history. Considering that, I do not know what more one could ask of him. At some point, somebody else has got to step up.

For example, it is true Pittsburgh has the best player in our generation in Crosby but it was Malkin that won the Conn Smythe and Fleury made some huge game saving stops. Dastyuk/Zetterberg, Sakic/Forsberg, Yzerman/Shanahan/Hull/Federov etc...

Not to mention the contribution all of those teams got from their 3rd and 4th line guys (Talbot, Draper, Maltby etc..)

Mats Sundin is tied for the most OT winners, all-time, in NHL history. Top 25, all-time, in NHL history in goals and points. He leads the Leafs, all-time, in goals, points and assists by a forward.

He was the second recipient of the Mark Messier Leadership award after Chris Chelios.

The list goes on...

While he did not win a cup, it is obvious that he has done more than any other Leaf since initial expansion (when the cup actually became hard to win) in that regard. He is a Leaf legend, period.

I understand that you have a personal problem with a guy you do not know personally but that does not mean you are somehow correct in bashing his tenure here before the controversial issue that turned you sour.

He is a first ballot hall of famer

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01-19-2012, 11:10 AM
  #53
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He was the captian of the Swedish national team and look what happend.. He just needed more talent beside him not some scrubs

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01-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsleaf View Post
Good player/leader when he was here, but should be put into perspective because the Leafs never really accomplished very much during his captaincy. Not that it was all his fault, but in the real world leaders are judged by what they accomplish.
Just his Captaincy or any Captain who hasn't accomplished anything since '67?

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01-19-2012, 11:13 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
What did he do again :s apparently that cup he won slipped my mind. And if we're bitter *****es would it be just to call you nuthuggers?
You're totally right, even Wayne Gretzky won stanley cups on his own.

I don't know how Mats wasn't able to accomplish that considering he played all 6 positions on the ice +60 minutes of every game.

Sundin single-handedly carried this team on his back the whole time he was here. If you can't admit to that then you are seriously just hating. If it wasn't for Sundin, we'd possibly be going on over 15 years of no playoff appearances, no conference finals' and no great hockey moments that he personally brought to this city.

And yes, I am totally hugging Mats nuts and not speaking the obvious.


Last edited by kfernandes29: 01-19-2012 at 11:19 AM.
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Old
01-19-2012, 11:17 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
What did he do again :s apparently that cup he won slipped my mind. And if we're bitter *****es would it be just to call you nuthuggers?
It's hard to keep track of who led them to the Cup. Was it Clark, Sittler, Gilmour or Sundin?
I know it wasn't Vaive, he sucked.

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01-19-2012, 11:21 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
It's hard to keep track of who led them to the Cup. Was it Clark, Sittler, Gilmour or Sundin?
I know it wasn't Vaive, he sucked.
lol No kidding!

Here's a good question.

Having accomplished less, why do Clark, Sittler, Gilmour, or even Vaive deserve more praise in this city than Mats Sundin?

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01-19-2012, 11:24 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
It is on a Saturday, Feb 11.

Some of the comments here are pretty entertaining.
thanks tips. it's not like the date was mentioned in the thread title or anything.

i said i'm glad it's not this saturday because i'll be at the game.

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01-19-2012, 11:27 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by kfernandes29 View Post
lol No kidding!

Here's a good question.

Having accomplished less, why do the above players deserve more praise in this city than Mats Sundin?
He's not Canadian?

When things got tough Mats stayed loyal to his Team and Teammates instead of taking the easy way out. That makes him a Villain to the few who don't understand loyalty.

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01-19-2012, 11:27 AM
  #60
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Sundin wanted to stay and he's hated.

Gilmour asks to be traded and he's loved.

Roberts refuses to re-sign over a relatively small amount of money and he's loved.

Do some Toronto fans have such a persecution complex that they can only love those who decide they don't want to be here?

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01-19-2012, 11:27 AM
  #61
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FACTS ONLY:

Sundin accomplished an enormous amount as a Leaf.

Sundin tarnished his legacy for MANY fans by the way he left and not retiring a Leaf (a poll would help determine how many is many).

You can argue the details all you want but those are the facts.

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01-19-2012, 11:28 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Goodman View Post
thanks tips. it's not like the date was mentioned in the thread title or anything.

i said i'm glad it's not this saturday because i'll be at the game.
I hope you get booed wearing ur habs jersey..

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01-19-2012, 11:28 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Saul Goodman View Post
thanks tips. it's not like the date was mentioned in the thread title or anything.

i said i'm glad it's not this saturday because i'll be at the game.
It's in the Title that I can see.

I'll be at both, looking forward to it.

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Old
01-19-2012, 11:32 AM
  #64
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Anyone who knocks Sundin should be dragged out onto the street and shot. He never wanted to leave but was forced out by the club. How can you possibly hate a player for not letting himself be traded for the good of the club? Hes a player not a GM, thats not his job. he should of played his last game as a leaf.

And you wonder why some players would never want to play in Toronto when they get treated like this, after pouring their heart and soul into the club for over a decade..

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01-19-2012, 11:32 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kfernandes29 View Post
lol No kidding!

Here's a good question.

Having accomplished less, why do Clark, Sittler, Gilmour, or even Vaive deserve more praise in this city than Mats Sundin?
probably because they didn't go on a big speech about how they wouldn't want to go to another team as a rental and the road to the cup starts in training camp, only to turn around and do the complete opposite and sign with vancouver half way through the next season.

the man is a hypocrite and doesn't give a crap about the city of toronto. it's completely hillarious watching a bunch of grown men get their panties in a bunch when someone says something bad about their precious mats.

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01-19-2012, 11:32 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 666 View Post
FACTS ONLY:

Sundin accomplished an enormous amount as a Leaf.

Sundin tarnished his legacy for MANY fans by the way he left and not retiring a Leaf (a poll would help determine how many is many).

You can argue the details all you want but those are the facts.
20,000 on their feet Feb 11th say otherwise, certainly a truer representation of the fans feeling than a poll here.

Only the 1st sentence is a fact.

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01-19-2012, 11:34 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Goodman View Post
probably because they didn't go on a big speech about how they wouldn't want to go to another team as a rental and the road to the cup starts in training camp, only to turn around and do the complete opposite and sign with vancouver half way through the next season.

the man is a hypocrite and doesn't give a crap about the city of toronto. it's completely hillarious watching a bunch of grown men get their panties in a bunch when someone says something bad about their precious mats.
He wanted to come back to Toronto, the club didn't want him back..

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01-19-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 666 View Post
FACTS ONLY:

Sundin accomplished an enormous amount as a Leaf.

Sundin tarnished his legacy for MANY fans by the way he left and not retiring a Leaf (a poll would help determine how many is many).

You can argue the details all you want but those are the facts.
How the **** is the 2nd one a fact

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01-19-2012, 11:45 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
20,000 on their feet Feb 11th say otherwise, certainly a truer representation of the fans feeling than a poll here.

Only the 1st sentence is a fact.
I can assure you that there are more than 20,000 fans who feel that his legacy has been tarnished.

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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
How the **** is the 2nd one a fact
I carefully used the word MANY. What about the facts don't you comprehend?

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01-19-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 666 View Post
I can assure you that there are more than 20,000 fans who feel that his legacy has been tarnished.



I carefully used the word MANY. What about the facts don't you comprehend?
Show me facts on MANY leafs fans.. No proof well its not a fact

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01-19-2012, 11:50 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by 666 View Post
I can assure you that there are more than 20,000 fans who feel that his legacy has been tarnished.
Even if this is true, which you could never prove (FACT), out of the millions of fans, I have seen nothing anywhere that would suggest people of like mind are anything other than a fringe minority.

Sundin bleeds more blue and white than you guys ever will

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01-19-2012, 11:51 AM
  #72
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"many" could mean 666 leaf fans out of 666 million

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01-19-2012, 11:51 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
He wanted to come back to Toronto, the club didn't want him back..
how do you know that he wanted to come back? can you back that up?

what actually happened is he didn't know if he wanted to play, and dicided mid season that he did want to play. he said he didn't want to be a rental and turned around and did the exact opposite. had he signed with another team right from the biginning of the season i would have been able to respect that. it's the hypocrisy that bothers me.

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01-19-2012, 11:52 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by 81inblueandwhite View Post
"many" could mean 666 leaf fans out of 666 million
That would be many more than a few

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01-19-2012, 11:53 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Goodman View Post
how do you know that he wanted to come back? can you back that up?

what actually happened is he didn't know if he wanted to play, and dicided mid season that he did want to play. he said he didn't want to be a rental and turned around and did the exact opposite. had he signed with another team right from the biginning of the season i would have been able to respect that. it's the hypocrisy that bothers me.
You should look up hypocrisy as in your own post you display the apples and oranges of the two situations.

Now had he signed for Vancouver then accepted a trade at the deadline, I would agree with you but you can not label something as hypocrisy when the details and circumstances of two situations are completely different.

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