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Caps vs Isles - 7:00 PM - Verizon Center - 1-17-2012

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Old
01-17-2012, 10:39 PM
  #276
Mr Gone
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
So Mike Knuble, Roman Hamrlik, Joel Ward, Troy Brouwer, Dennis Wideman, Jeff Halpern, and Jason Chimera aren't part of the problem? They're not playing poorly, making stupid decisions, etc.?

Was Bruce Boudreau's influence so toxic that he killed off any good habits learned in the thousands of games those players played under other coaches?

I call ********.

Ovechkin and Semin are basically the only ones on the ice tonight that fell into your description of 20-24 year old super skilled players under Boudreau.
Any player not being held responsible can pick up bad habits.

What you do in practice you do in the game.

What other reason do you have for the player not being able to pick up the new system? And have such low hockey IQs?

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01-17-2012, 10:43 PM
  #277
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I'm talking in general.... Not today. The overall aspect of these kids hes been a the main mentor. As I said I agree **** all that he's a main problem, especially with many of the morons you mentioned. Ive said many times that theres an issue with the makeup even if green/backis are healthy.

But I think you went too far in closing off the influence BB had on ao, as, backis, green, mojo, sarge, laich, alzner, Carlson.

Now many of those players have varying amounts of issues in there development. But if you don't agree or can't understand the point that I believe, and mr gone more strongly, then perhaps that's why you didn't get why many of us wanted him gone in first place. Zero confidence in development and worried that we're wasting away the two oldest players on my list, including the most important.

I'm personally just glad that era is over and hope that we just bag the season, trade semin and green, re-sign Wideman, and start over fresh.

But let me re-iterate..... It does have **** all to do with losing one game or having improper roster makeup.... Which is the most important factor. BB should not be the blame for a loss now or any more. But it won't stop those of us from wondering if it came sooner.

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01-17-2012, 10:46 PM
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gone View Post
That is a really good point. And may be part of what we are seeing now. Its like with a collage football player. As soon as you put the ball in the hands of a RB that is as fast as the D backs. Half the D backs cant make a tackle. They never had to learn the angle of pursuit. They were always bigger faster then everyone. So they run at the guy with the ball and end up behind them.

Maybe our guys never had to work for it like they are doing now.
And I will NEVER hate on BB for doing what he did. He found a niche that worked.... Worked well. And he parlayed it into success for himself and franchise. I would likely have done the same if I spent years scrapping the bread lines in a brown suit and someone gave me the yellow ticket.

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01-17-2012, 10:50 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
It's why the entire Leonsis 'youth most be served' plan--be it Caps or Wiz--is so terribly short-sighted if the culture, the stability, is not there alongside it. It's more a catch phrase than actual plan.
Was my first worry/complaint when we started bringing in those end of career idiots in order to "build through youth".

The MINUTE they saw what they had in ovi (ie Calder) and with draft in backstrom, they should have went into real FA and trade mode to work on the culture.... But not with Hanlon there.

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01-17-2012, 10:52 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gone View Post
Any player not being held responsible can pick up bad habits.

What you do in practice you do in the game.

What other reason do you have for the player not being able to pick up the new system? And have such low hockey IQs?
You can't blame BB for how those guys are playing though. I fully agree with nbtw there. I don't think those guys.

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01-17-2012, 10:57 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
It's why the entire Leonsis 'youth most be served' plan--be it Caps or Wiz--is so terribly short-sighted if the culture, the stability, is not there alongside it. It's more a catch phrase than actual plan.
Yep.

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01-17-2012, 10:58 PM
  #282
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You're not making a good case against Boudreau in the least by citing the development of Backstrom, Laich, Alzner, or even Mojo. I don't know what bad habits those players displayed under Boudreau, or are displaying now. I mean, Laich and Backstrom developed pretty much as well as anyone could have imagined, and Alzner and Mojo are on a track to become really good, really smart players in all three zones.

You could also argue that Boudreau go the most out of both Ovechkin and Semin. And without Bruce Boudreau, Mike Green would never have become the player he did. Carlson's development certainly wasn't hindered at all by Boudreau.

Jeff Schultz just sucks, yet Boudreau made him look like an NHL player for a while.

The more I see this team under Hunter, the more I think Boudreau was even better than I thought he was. He looks like he may have been a damn miracle worker.

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01-17-2012, 11:03 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
Well I believe it's nothing short of idiotic to think that 20-24 year old super skilled players aren't influenced and build habits based on surroundings.
What are these mysteriously neglectful habits that we have no proof ever even existed, where the assistants, McPhee, Patrick, or Leonsis and hell, even their more responsible teammates, wouldn't have noticed and have already interceded at some point, if not multiple times?? <sarcasm alert>Maybe the players would even call them out in the press after they leave for other teams, or a departed member of the coaching staff. <end sarcasm alert>

I seem to remember Bruce expressing frustration about a certain forward making the same dumb boneheaded moves over and over and saying he doesn't know what else to do. Is it at least possible that having that kind of older influence as a best friend to a young superstar could impact the young guy(s) negatively?

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01-17-2012, 11:05 PM
  #284
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Evgeni Malkin is prone to all kinds of stupid on a quite regular basis.

Did Dan Bylsma instill those bad habits?

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01-17-2012, 11:07 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
Well I believe it's nothing short of idiotic to think that 20-24 year old super skilled players aren't influenced and build habits based on surroundings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You're not making a good case against Boudreau in the least by citing the development of Backstrom, Laich, Alzner, or even Mojo. I don't know what bad habits those players displayed under Boudreau, or are displaying now. I mean, Laich and Backstrom developed pretty much as well as anyone could have imagined, and Alzner and Mojo are on a track to become really good, really smart players in all three zones.

You could also argue that Boudreau go the most out of both Ovechkin and Semin. And without Bruce Boudreau, Mike Green would never have become the player he did. Carlson's development certainly wasn't hindered at all by Boudreau.

Jeff Schultz just sucks, yet Boudreau made him look like an NHL player for a while.

The more I see this team under Hunter, the more I think Boudreau was even better than I thought he was. He looks like he may have been a damn miracle worker.
Great post. Not sure if it's true, but it's certainly a strong possibility.

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01-17-2012, 11:08 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Evgeni Malkin is prone to all kinds of stupid on a quite regular basis.

Did Dan Bylsma instill those bad habits?
NO but clearly the country club atmosphere he runs allows for players to do whatever they want. I mean that's what we're being force fed to believe that Bruce did.

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01-17-2012, 11:10 PM
  #287
G3 LesPaul
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I did the Math

BB Shots average: 30.6 per game.

DH Shots average: 25 per game

BB SA: 29.7 per game

DH SA: 30.7 per game


Sooooo....

We are taking less shots under DH but yet giving up more than BB.... let me quote somethings:

"Anyonezzz can coach this team!1111!"
"BB doesn't know defense!1111!1"
"Defense first hockey winzz gamess1!11"
"Dale Hunter is the answer to all our problems!11!!"

Give me a break. Dales system sucks. Plain and simple

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01-17-2012, 11:14 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
Was my first worry/complaint when we started bringing in those end of career idiots in order to "build through youth".

The MINUTE they saw what they had in ovi (ie Calder) and with draft in backstrom, they should have went into real FA and trade mode to work on the culture.... But not with Hanlon there.
This.

Furthermore, while this is clearly not the year to do it, the anxiety around mortgaging the future was overdone. They never took the chance and traded real assets for a real shot, choosing instead to make half-assed pick-ups and go with hope.

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01-17-2012, 11:14 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
I did the Math

BB Shots average: 30.6 per game.

DH Shots average: 25 per game

BB SA: 29.7 per game

DH SA: 30.7 per game


Sooooo....

We are taking less shots under DH but yet giving up more than BB.... let me quote somethings:

"Anyonezzz can coach this team!1111!"
"BB doesn't know defense!1111!1"
"Defense first hockey winzz gamess1!11"
"Dale Hunter is the answer to all our problems!11!!"

Give me a break. Dales system sucks. Plain and simple

Stats stats stats stats, stats stats stats stats.
They just show everything and are the undeniable truth, aren't they.

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Old
01-17-2012, 11:15 PM
  #290
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Stats stats stats stats, stats stats stats stats.
They just show everything and are the undeniable truth, aren't they.
Well yes, stats are, by definition, undeniable truth.

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01-17-2012, 11:17 PM
  #291
um
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
I did the Math

BB Shots average: 30.6 per game.

DH Shots average: 25 per game

BB SA: 29.7 per game

DH SA: 30.7 per game


Sooooo....

We are taking less shots under DH but yet giving up more than BB.... let me quote somethings:

"Anyonezzz can coach this team!1111!"
"BB doesn't know defense!1111!1"
"Defense first hockey winzz gamess1!11"
"Dale Hunter is the answer to all our problems!11!!"

Give me a break. Dales system sucks. Plain and simple
i agree **** wins lets get shots

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Old
01-17-2012, 11:24 PM
  #292
G3 LesPaul
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Originally Posted by um View Post
i agree **** wins lets get shots
You want the stats for that?

Both BB and DH have 12 wins. BUT WE ARE PLAYING THE RIGHT WAY NOW!!11!11

Eat it

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01-17-2012, 11:28 PM
  #293
Carlzner
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
You want the stats for that?

Both BB and DH have 12 wins. BUT WE ARE PLAYING THE RIGHT WAY NOW!!11!11

Eat it

Well, 8 of our last 11... again, you're just looking at the top of the stats.
Calm down, we have been playing better under Dale. Don't know why you expected us to be a superpower team already with a new coach...

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01-17-2012, 11:30 PM
  #294
G3 LesPaul
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Well, 8 of our last 11... again, you're just looking at the top of the stats.
Calm down, we have been playing better under Dale. Don't know why you expected us to be a superpower team already with a new coach...
Playing better yet have the same amount of wins. At least we are playing better. All that matters.

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01-17-2012, 11:32 PM
  #295
Carlzner
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
Playing better yet have the same amount of wins. At least we are playing better. All that matters.
Don't think you got the part where we've won 8 of our last 11... that is called playing better. Doesn't matter what the games before that were, because they were before we started playing better.

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Old
01-17-2012, 11:39 PM
  #296
G3 LesPaul
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Don't think you got the part where we've won 8 of our last 11... that is called playing better. Doesn't matter what the games before that were, because they were before we started playing better.
What proof do u have that we are playing better under Dale?

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01-17-2012, 11:40 PM
  #297
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
Don't think you got the part where we've won 8 of our last 11... that is called playing better. Doesn't matter what the games before that were, because they were before we started playing better.
While I'm happy with the results the Caps have been getting, they've been dominated all three games during the easiest stretch that any team in the NHL will face all season. Doesn't bode well.

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01-17-2012, 11:40 PM
  #298
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bleh.

they have one player who can score right now, and he's not scoring a ton.

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01-17-2012, 11:41 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
What proof do u have that we are playing better under Dale?

my eyes and my memory. It's actually pretty obvious.
Guess you forgot what we were like under BB so quick. A few less than stellar recent games doesn't mean we are just as bad/worse.

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01-17-2012, 11:41 PM
  #300
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Winning the game doesn't really mean you played well. It didn't under Boudreau, and it doesn't under Hunter. The more I see of this team, the more I'm drawn to the idea of something of a rebuild. The team has no fundamentals. I think Boudreau is partly to blame for some of the things they don't do well, but a lot of these players...I just don't know at this point.

Really think Ovechkin needs to be traded. He's been almost entirely invisible without Backstrom playing and I just don't think he's someone around whom you try to build a team at this point. The $9.5M of cap space could be benefiting the team so much more with him gone.

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