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Caps vs Isles - 7:00 PM - Verizon Center - 1-17-2012

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01-17-2012, 10:52 PM
  #301
hb11xchamps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Winning the game doesn't really mean you played well. It didn't under Boudreau, and it doesn't under Hunter. The more I see of this team, the more I'm drawn to the idea of something of a rebuild. The team has no fundamentals. I think Boudreau is partly to blame for some of the things they don't do well, but a lot of these players...I just don't know at this point.

Really think Ovechkin needs to be traded. He's been almost entirely invisible without Backstrom playing and I just don't think he's someone around whom you try to build a team at this point. The $9.5M of cap space could be benefiting the team so much more with him gone.
Really? Ovechkin needs to be traded? That's the last thing we need to do right now. As soon as we trade Ovechkin the whole league then realizes that the Washington Capitals are in panic mode by trading their young superstar captain and everything that has been done the past couple of years goes out the door. If you trade Ovechkin we won't attract any high quality free agents because they will be too scared that if they underperform for a bit they too will be shipped out. Not a smart idea

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01-17-2012, 10:55 PM
  #302
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I don't think the 8 of 11 crowd are going to enjoy the next 8 very much...

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01-17-2012, 10:59 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
Really? Ovechkin needs to be traded? That's the last thing we need to do right now. As soon as we trade Ovechkin the whole league then realizes that the Washington Capitals are in panic mode by trading their young superstar captain and everything that has been done the past couple of years goes out the door. If you trade Ovechkin we won't attract any high quality free agents because they will be too scared that if they underperform for a bit they too will be shipped out. Not a smart idea
I am quite sure it won't cause problems with free agents. Like I said, I'm leaning towards some kind of small rebuild at this point. Establish a new core of Backstrom, Johansson, Kuznetsov, Alzner, and Carlson. I guess you can count Orlov in there. Keep some of the complimentary players, particularly Brouwer and Chimera. Find a new coach. It would have to happen under a new GM probably, and there would be a transition period, but hopefully not a long one. Maybe acquiring the right center or something would fix enough of the team's issues, but I really don't know. The team just has so many flaws.

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01-17-2012, 10:59 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
I don't think the 8 of 11 crowd are going to enjoy the next 8 very much...
Are we headed into brutal stretch? Seems like it's still littered with plenty of Lightning, Jets, Carolina, Montreal, etc. Yes, I see the Bruins, but otherwise, it seems fairly routine.

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01-17-2012, 11:00 PM
  #305
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Look where the games are and take a look at the Caps splits.

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01-17-2012, 11:02 PM
  #306
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Trading Ovechkin is the last thing they need to do. The team needs to be re-formed to more emulate it's captain: aggressive and physical with a high-powered offense.

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01-17-2012, 11:02 PM
  #307
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Any update on Backstrom? Is he skating yet? Absence of him and Green certainly hurts.

As for the BB v. DH stat breakdown above, yes, our shots per game is down, and yes, their shots per game is up, but isn't Goals Against down? that's the main stat, in my book.

I'm glad we are playing again tomorrow. Maybe they will redeem themselves.

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01-17-2012, 11:05 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by troyerlaw View Post
Any update on Backstrom? Is he skating yet? Absence of him and Green certainly hurts.

As for the BB v. DH stat breakdown above, yes, our shots per game is down, and yes, their shots per game is up, but isn't Goals Against down? that's the main stat, in my book.

I'm glad we are playing again tomorrow. Maybe they will redeem themselves.
I think that's got everything to do with Vokoun's improved play.

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01-17-2012, 11:05 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Trading Ovechkin is the last thing they need to do. The team needs to be re-formed to more emulate it's captain: aggressive and physical with a high-powered offense.
I don't want to trade him either, and I still love the guy. But cynically, I wonder who would even take him at this point. That's a lot of damned money for someone trending toward 30 goals per year.

But hey, as long as people are *****ing about Ovie being overpaid, what about Laich? My god, does that guy really earn $4.5? And Ward, whatever he makes is way too much, too. At least Ovie is a threat to score or throw a hit. Laich, Ward, Knuble ... those guys have been AWOL, too, IMO.

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01-17-2012, 11:07 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
my eyes and my memory. It's actually pretty obvious.
Guess you forgot what we were like under BB so quick. A few less than stellar recent games doesn't mean we are just as bad/worse.
My eyes have watched every game. Nothing has improved. We have actually taken a step back.

You know why we sucked under BB? The team quit on him. That is the lazy ass players, not bruce. Under dale, they are playing his system and still suck.

So what gives?

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01-17-2012, 11:15 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I think that's got everything to do with Vokoun's improved play.
Bingo.

Shots are defense. Whats allowed is the goalie.

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01-17-2012, 11:16 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Trading Ovechkin is the last thing they need to do. The team needs to be re-formed to more emulate it's captain: aggressive and physical with a high-powered offense.
Sure. Ovechkin does not represent that last trait anymore though, it seems. I just think the assets he could return and the cap space that could be freed up are more valuable to the team than he is. I think he needs to be traded before it's too late. He really could become untradeable. I think the team needs a new identity, and I think Backstrom and Alzner are the future leaders of the team. Imagine this core in a couple of years, supplemented by free agency and the assets returned from trading a bunch of players this year/off-season:

?-Backstrom-Brouwer
Johansson/?-Johansson/?-Kuznetsov
Chimera-Eakin-?
Hendricks(I guess)-?-?
Beagle

Alzner-Carlson
?-Orlov
?-?
Erskine

Holtby/Neuvirth/whatever

Alzner as captain in a couple of years, I guess. Fill in the rest of the lineup with smart players with decent habits.

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01-17-2012, 11:16 PM
  #313
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Here are some stats on Dale's Caps and Bruce's Ducks since Christmas
Caps

7-4 record

Goals for: 27
Goals against: 26

Wins:
Rangers
Sabres
Bluejackets
Flames
Penguins
Lightning
Hurricanes

With the exception of the Rangers and the Penguins, this is a list of teams that are not in the playoffs as of today. Plus the Penguins were also without Crosby, Letang, and had a hurt Neal

Loses:
Sabres
Sharks
Kings
Islanders

The Sabres and Islanders are not in the playoffs in this list and the Kings and Sharks are battling it out for their division lead. BUT if it wasnt for a team winning the division being in the top three, they would be 7th and 8th place in the West.



Ducks

6-3-1 record

Goals for: 33
Goals against: 25

Wins:
Sharks
Islanders
Bluejackets
Dallas
Edmonton
Vancouver

Loses:
Vancouver
Colorado
Sharks
Flames

Bruce's Ducks have more goals for and less goals against but the teams he has faced have been mainly non playoff teams

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01-17-2012, 11:17 PM
  #314
troyerlaw
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
You know why we sucked under BB? The team quit on him. That is the lazy ass players, not bruce.
He hasn't worked any miracles with the Ducks either, and they have plenty of talent.

As good as our team looked on paper, it just isn't translating into actual success. Sort of like the Eagles this year in the NFL.

The bummer is, after the heartbreak of Game 7 losses to Pittsburgh and Montreal, respectively, I was still feeling as if the best was yet to come, and that talent and youth would still eventually be served. In hindsight, those losses are looking more like the highwater mark for this particular crop of players.

But hey, it's still the NHL -- all you have to do is to sneak into the playoffs, and then all bets are off. As dominant as the Bruins and Rangers look right now, it won't surprise me at all if either or both of them get bounced in the first round, possibly even by the (now) lowly Caps. There really are two separate seasons. We used to be good at the one and not the other. Maybe it'll be the other way around this year. Especially if Vokoun pulls a Halak and erects a force field around the pipes.

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01-17-2012, 11:22 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
I'm leaning towards some kind of small rebuild at this point.
Can you imagine what Holmgren would be doing with this group? He blows up teams that are WINNING. I'm not sure a 'small rebuild' will do the trick with this current group. They aren't coming together at all, at least not that I can see.

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01-17-2012, 11:24 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Sure. Ovechkin does not represent that last trait anymore though, it seems. I just think the assets he could return and the cap space that could be freed up are more valuable to the team than he is. I think he needs to be traded before it's too late. He really could become untradeable. I think the team needs a new identity, and I think Backstrom and Alzner are the future leaders of the team. Imagine this core in a couple of years, supplemented by free agency and the assets returned from trading a bunch of players this year/off-season:

?-Backstrom-Brouwer
Johansson/?-Johansson/?-Kuznetsov
Chimera-Eakin-?
Hendricks(I guess)-?-?
Beagle

Alzner-Carlson
?-Orlov
?-?
Erskine

Holtby/Neuvirth/whatever

Alzner as captain in a couple of years, I guess. Fill in the rest of the lineup with smart players with decent habits.
That lineup has one guy that's ever scored 30 goals in a season or been a point-per-game player. Not a recipe for sustained success.

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01-17-2012, 11:35 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
I did the Math

BB Shots average: 30.6 per game.

DH Shots average: 25 per game

BB SA: 29.7 per game

DH SA: 30.7 per game


Sooooo....

We are taking less shots under DH but yet giving up more than BB.... let me quote somethings:
It’s shocking how short sighted you are.

“I did the Math” LOL

Did your Math also tell you that the team was giving up 3.4 goals a game under BB?

Or maybe your Math told you the team is giving up 2.4 goals a game under Hunter?

Math is a treble thing to waste in the wrong hands.

You should look at numbers that matter.

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01-17-2012, 11:42 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by troyerlaw View Post
I don't want to trade him either, and I still love the guy. But cynically, I wonder who would even take him at this point. That's a lot of damned money for someone trending toward 30 goals per year.

But hey, as long as people are *****ing about Ovie being overpaid, what about Laich? My god, does that guy really earn $4.5? And Ward, whatever he makes is way too much, too. At least Ovie is a threat to score or throw a hit. Laich, Ward, Knuble ... those guys have been AWOL, too, IMO.
Hypothetically, we could ship him to a team like Columbus for Nash+. Save about $2mil and Nash is more than capable of 30+ goals and upwards of 40. Assuming it gets to that point, a change of scenery could benefit both. Also assuming if DH is here for the long haul, Nash would be his guy from junior.

Stressing the word hypothetically, it will never get to the point of trading Ovechkin.

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01-17-2012, 11:48 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
That lineup has one guy that's ever scored 30 goals in a season or been a point-per-game player. Not a recipe for sustained success.
It also has a ton of cap room. At least one very significant top-six forward would be added, either through free agency or trade. Like Appreci8 said, though, Ovechkin will never be traded. Regardless, I'm almost hoping for a collapse in this next stretch of games. With or without Ovechkin -- and I do think it's possible that he will return to form enough to be valuable -- I think the roster needs some serious turnover.

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01-17-2012, 11:49 PM
  #320
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I am 100% with OV playing like a 7mill player. But if its going to happen that way. We can't have guys like Green not playing, Semin 50% of the time. 55 anytime or a 3rd liner making 4.5mill a season.

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01-17-2012, 11:57 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Appreci8 View Post
Hypothetically, we could ship him to a team like Columbus for Nash+. Save about $2mil and Nash is more than capable of 30+ goals and upwards of 40. Assuming it gets to that point, a change of scenery could benefit both. Also assuming if DH is here for the long haul, Nash would be his guy from junior.

Stressing the word hypothetically, it will never get to the point of trading Ovechkin.
You'd ship Ovechkin out for Nash??? Ovy's contract is a bargain compared to that.

That's quite literally insane. Ovechkin's worst season of his career (last year) would have been Nash's best.

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01-18-2012, 12:06 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You'd ship Ovechkin out for Nash??? Ovy's contract is a bargain compared to that.

That's quite literally insane. Ovechkin's worst season of his career (last year) would have been Nash's best.
Thought I stressed hypothetically enough. I was addressing a scenario for the poster, not so much what I wanted.

Fwiw, I don't think Nash would be all that bad here especially playing alongside a legitimate #1C.

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01-18-2012, 12:19 AM
  #323
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Nash in addition to Ovy sure, never as a replacement.

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01-18-2012, 12:34 AM
  #324
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Nash in addition to Ovy sure, never as a replacement.
for 7mil?
No thanks.

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01-18-2012, 12:35 AM
  #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
I'm leaning towards some kind of small rebuild at this point. Establish a new core of Backstrom, Johansson, Kuznetsov, Alzner, and Carlson. I guess you can count Orlov in there.
I think you will like a gifted skinny cherrypicker and a defenceman that is better in offensive zone than in his own zone as key parts of your team.

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