HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > St. Louis Blues
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Blues at the Deadline (my take)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-22-2012, 09:58 AM
  #101
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 11,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
You posted that Okposo needed a change of scenery.

I suggested you poll nyi fans,asking if they agreed.

Okposo's play and stats since being a healthy scratch for 3 straight games, would indicate otherwise.
I'm pretty sure that the prevailing attitude toward Okposo over the last year and a half is that he needed a change of scenery. Earlier this year, there were NYI fans agreeing. Sure, he has had a hot streak the last ten games, but that doesn't necessarily change anything. If he continues playing the way he is now, then we'll all agree. But until then, I'll take the sample size of the last couple years over the last couple games. Either way, there's no need to be so condescending.

bluesfan94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:04 AM
  #102
Bluesnatic27
Registered User
 
Bluesnatic27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 648
vCash: 500
With the Boyes and Stewart issue, in no way do I think he'll be turning into another Boyes, and with Stewie's disappointing performance this year, has anyone ever actually though of how Stewart gets most of his goals?

He's said this before in an interview and has been stated in some coaching analysis when he came over from Colorado, he scores most of his goals from being in front of the net and getting a redirection, he does not get most of his goals from taking shots like Backes does, this is why in the beginning he was able to score so much, because Payne put him in a position to compliment his strengths, but now under Hitch, he has to get used to a different style of coaching and isn't in front of the net anymore to get his re-directions in, it's that simple

Just a side note for Boyes, his stories kind of a tragic one being that he had to be someone he just wasn't, during his play when he was drafted and all through his development, he was a top notch playmaker, he was never actually a sniper to begin with, so after that fluke 40 goal season, everyone put this unneeded pressure on him to become something he just wasn't, so I always argue that getting that 40 goal season was probably the worst mistake in his career

Bluesnatic27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:17 AM
  #103
Mike Liut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,968
vCash: 50
Stewart doesn't score, hit, fight or set up goals. I really don't see the fascination that most Blues fans have with him. If a team with a top 15 pick offered their 1st for him AFTER the season, I would be all over it. Unless we can include him in a bigger deal for a better player. There is no part of Stewart's game that I like.

Mike Liut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:21 AM
  #104
frostyflo
#peskyblues
 
frostyflo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Austria
Country: Austria
Posts: 3,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesnatic27 View Post
With the Boyes and Stewart issue, in no way do I think he'll be turning into another Boyes, and with Stewie's disappointing performance this year, has anyone ever actually though of how Stewart gets most of his goals?

He's said this before in an interview and has been stated in some coaching analysis when he came over from Colorado, he scores most of his goals from being in front of the net and getting a redirection, he does not get most of his goals from taking shots like Backes does, this is why in the beginning he was able to score so much, because Payne put him in a position to compliment his strengths, but now under Hitch, he has to get used to a different style of coaching and isn't in front of the net anymore to get his re-directions in, it's that simple
Just a side note for Boyes, his stories kind of a tragic one being that he had to be someone he just wasn't, during his play when he was drafted and all through his development, he was a top notch playmaker, he was never actually a sniper to begin with, so after that fluke 40 goal season, everyone put this unneeded pressure on him to become something he just wasn't, so I always argue that getting that 40 goal season was probably the worst mistake in his career
can`t agree at all. at the beginning of this season, under Payne`s regime, he wasn`t scoring either. other wingers on this team get those goals so IMO its his fault and Hitch said before yesterdays game he wants more bodies infront of the net so he just has to get his a** there.

frostyflo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:23 AM
  #105
stlweir
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,516
vCash: 500
Liut, I'm wondering if you liked his game at the end of last year?

2 Minute - Boyes after his 33 goal season dropped to 14 with the Blues and then scored 17 the year he was dealt to Buffalo. Boyes gets more assists and is a good in the shoot outs. I don't see Stewart collapsing like Boyes. Stewart has been very frustrating to watch this year but there is no way I would give up on him. He and Berglund are struggling but the Blues continue to battle for first place overall. Lets hope they both step up their production so that the team has some breathing room in their victories.


Last edited by stlweir: 01-22-2012 at 10:43 AM.
stlweir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:44 AM
  #106
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 30,102
vCash: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
I'm pretty sure that the prevailing attitude toward Okposo over the last year and a half is that he needed a change of scenery. Earlier this year, there were NYI fans agreeing. Sure, he has had a hot streak the last ten games, but that doesn't necessarily change anything. If he continues playing the way he is now, then we'll all agree. But until then, I'll take the sample size of the last couple years over the last couple games. Either way, there's no need to be so condescending.
Isles and their fans were very happy with KO's first two pro seasons.

Rookie season:39 pts,played very physical.
Sophmore season:52 pts,played very physical.

3rd season:Okposo missed the first 42 games last season,after getting hurt in training camp and having major shoulder surgery.He never looked good last season.Always looked a step behind everyone else.

4th season:Okposo's first 14-15 gamesof 2011-2012 were pure crap,with him admitting he played scared,not physical at all because of last season's shulder injury.

His improved play hasn't been over the last 10 games.His physical play,scoring and aggressive puck pursuit improved about 30 games ago,after being scratched for 3 straight games.

And there is nothing condescending about saying the 23 yr old is a core player,who because of his play and contract,won't be moved for spare parts.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 10:48 AM
  #107
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 11,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Isles and their fans were very happy with KO's first two pro seasons.

Rookie season:39 pts,played very physical.
Sophmore season:52 pts,played very physical.

3rd season:Okposo missed the first 42 games last season,after getting hurt in training camp and having major shoulder surgery.He never looked good last season.Always looked a step behind everyone else.

4th season:Okposo's first 14-15 gamesof 2011-2012 were pure crap,with him admitting he played scared,not physical at all because of last season's shulder injury.

His improved play hasn't been over the last 10 games.His physical play,scoring and aggressive puck pursuit improved about 30 games ago,after being scratched for 3 straight games.

And there is nothing condescending about saying the 23 yr old is a core player,who because of his play and contract,won't be moved for spare parts.
What's condescending is calling D'Agostini, who is only 25 himself and has scored more goals in a single season than Okposo, and Ben Bishop, who, at the very least, will be a 1B type goaltender (he almost beat out Elliott, who is now an all-star), spare parts.

bluesfan94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 11:07 AM
  #108
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 30,102
vCash: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
What's condescending is calling D'Agostini, who is only 25 himself and has scored more goals in a single season than Okposo, and Ben Bishop, who, at the very least, will be a 1B type goaltender (he almost beat out Elliott, who is now an all-star), spare parts.
Isles have 3 quality goalie prospects.All with potential to develop into #1 nhl goaltenders.It's nice that Bishop almost beat out Elliot,but not somethng that concerns the NYI or their fans.

It's also nice that 25 yr old D'Agostini has more goals in a single season then 23 yr old Okposo,but again not a concern for the NYI or their fans.Since the Isles and Isle fans, are satisfied that Okposo's development is back on track and he's creating space on the top line for Tavares.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 11:21 AM
  #109
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 11,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Isles have 3 quality goalie prospects.All with potential to develop into #1 nhl goaltenders.It's nice that Bishop almost beat out Elliot,but not something that concerns the NYI or their fans.

It's also nice that 25 yr old D'Agostini has more goals in a single season then 23 yr old Okposo,but again not a concern for the NYI or their fans.Since the Isles and Isle fans, are satisfied that Okposo's development is back on track and he's creating space on the top line for Tavares.
So you'll admit at the very least that they aren't spare parts? I understand that Bishop may be superfluous to the NYI organization, but he's not a spare part, and neither is D'Agostini. And if I remember correctly, there was a tweet of some sort that suggested the Islanders and the Blues had been talking in regards to Okposo and Bishop.

bluesfan94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 12:05 PM
  #110
STL fan in IA
Registered User
 
STL fan in IA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,149
vCash: 500
While I'm a fan of Okposo and am glad he's turned things back around, I don't see him as a great need at this point. The Blues are already very deep at forward, although they don't have any superstars. If they need anything, I'd try to add a legit elite forward (say 2 good forwards for 1 very good/great forward) or get a legit top pairing left d-man to pair with Petro.

STL fan in IA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 12:16 PM
  #111
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 30,102
vCash: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
So you'll admit at the very least that they aren't spare parts? I understand that Bishop may be superfluous to the NYI organization, but he's not a spare part, and neither is D'Agostini. And if I remember correctly, there was a tweet of some sort that suggested the Islanders and the Blues had been talking in regards to Okposo and Bishop.
Not 1 credible source, has reported the Isles have been in trade talks to move Okposo.

A fan/blogger on hockeybuzz wrote a nonsense article last Dec.,about how Hemsky for Okposo made sense for both teams.Of course he failed to mention the isles budget restrictions and how the oft injured Hemsky is a ufa this July

As for Bishop and D'Agostini being spare parts...I don't kniow how the Blues view them,but with the isles high on Poulin/Nilson/Koskinen,Bishop would be a spare part for the NYI.

Isles count on Okposo not just for scoring,but to do the grunt work on his line:fighting for pucks along the boards and behind the net,going hard to the net,aggressive puck pursuit.These aren't strong suits for Moulson,Grabner or Parenteau their other top 6 wingers.Isles would not be interested in a D'Agostini for KO swap.They'll keep KO and see if Nino develops into a top 6 winger.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 12:18 PM
  #112
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,744
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlweir View Post
Liut, I'm wondering if you liked his game at the end of last year?
How did you like Boyes during his 43 goal season? Only difference, Boyes did what he did for a full season, then he followed it up with 72 points.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 12:19 PM
  #113
Chojin
Tiny Panger...
 
Chojin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,534
vCash: 500
Barring any injuries in the next month, I only foresee Bishop being moved. Varlamov got a 1st, but I Bishop has much less NHL experience, so the best we can hope for is a 2nd from an Eastern team (I really don't want to trade him to a conference rival). I would definitely do something like Bishop for Tampa's 2nd or Bishop + 1st for Tampa's 1st.

Oh, I could also see us picking up P. A. Parenteau as a rental, but I wouldn't want to give up our 1st for him. I'd do it for a 2nd, though.

Chojin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 12:25 PM
  #114
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 500
Okposo is a long way from his promise. There really isn't any need for him on the Blues' roster.

D'Agostini is the 10th or 11th forward in ice time when McDonald and Steen are back. He is a bit of a spare part on this very deep Blues team, was less so last year. He'd probably get 6th or 7th most forward minutes on the Isles.

Bishop is a spare part. However, so are all those Isles goalies mentioned.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 01:17 PM
  #115
CREW99AW
Registered User
 
CREW99AW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 30,102
vCash: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Okposo is a long way from his promise. There really isn't any need for him on the Blues' roster.

D'Agostini is the 10th or 11th forward in ice time when McDonald and Steen are back. He is a bit of a spare part on this very deep Blues team, was less so last year. He'd probably get 6th or 7th most forward minutes on the Isles.

Bishop is a spare part. However, so are all those Isles goalies mentioned.
Those goalie prospects are only spare parts, if Snow and his scouts sour on them or decide the team's future in goal lies elsewhere.Either way,no interest in Bishop or moving KO for D'Agostini.

CREW99AW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 02:57 PM
  #116
Bluesnatic27
Registered User
 
Bluesnatic27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
can`t agree at all. at the beginning of this season, under Payne`s regime, he wasn`t scoring either. other wingers on this team get those goals so IMO its his fault and Hitch said before yesterdays game he wants more bodies infront of the net so he just has to get his a** there.
Did you include last season? Didn't he have like 16 goals in 24 games or something, anyway, that's the point I was trying to bring up

Bluesnatic27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 03:02 PM
  #117
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,744
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesnatic27 View Post
Did you include last season? Didn't he have like 16 goals in 24 games or something, anyway, that's the point I was trying to bring up
No one is forgetting what he did last season, but we can use the same logic with Boyes. Remember when he scored 43? Now he is terrible.

Stewart's stats with the Blues:

70 games, 25 goals, 17 assists, for 42 points.

Looking at Stewart as a whole, he still isn't that impressive. He has had essentially an entire season with us and overall, it has been just average and below average if you consider his talent level.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 03:24 PM
  #118
PocketNines
Only a 2 year window
 
PocketNines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Crested Butte, CO
Posts: 9,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Those goalie prospects are only spare parts, if Snow and his scouts sour on them or decide the team's future in goal lies elsewhere.Either way,no interest in Bishop or moving KO for D'Agostini.
I just mean they're kind of NHL spare parts in that there's nothing special or unique about them, but of course sometimes you plug spare parts in. I agree there's no need to acquire what you already have. And Okposo's contract versus D'Agostini's, the value isn't all that close right now.

PocketNines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 05:51 PM
  #119
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 11,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
No one is forgetting what he did last season, but we can use the same logic with Boyes. Remember when he scored 43? Now he is terrible.

Stewart's stats with the Blues:

70 games, 25 goals, 17 assists, for 42 points.

Looking at Stewart as a whole, he still isn't that impressive. He has had essentially an entire season with us and overall, it has been just average and below average if you consider his talent level.
In twelve more games, if he scores five more goals, then he's at a 30 goal pace. Not his best, but he also had a big slump.

bluesfan94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 05:59 PM
  #120
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,744
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
In twelve more games, if he scores five more goals, then he's at a 30 goal pace. Not his best, but he also had a big slump.
Do you honestly believe he gets 5 goals in the next 12 games? None in his past 5, 3 in his past 12, he will get 3 at the most.

In his 70 games as a Blue, over an 82 game pace it looks like this:

29 goals, 20 assists, for 49 points.

That isn't very good and I don't know how it can realistically be defended, especially when I am including his torrid hot streak. I'm not just using his terrible numbers this season. I don't understand why people are putting more stock in a smaller sample size, that doesn't make any sense.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 06:01 PM
  #121
Mike Liut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,968
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
In twelve more games, if he scores five more goals, then he's at a 30 goal pace. Not his best, but he also had a big slump.


He has 3 goals in his past 12 games and is on pace for 18 for the season. I have seen enough of him to know he's a floater. Not a scorer, hitter, fighter or playmaker.

Mike Liut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 06:28 PM
  #122
HooliganX2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,465
vCash: 500
We are winning games. We are one of the top teams in the NHL. I really wish our fans would enjoy having a winning team. Instead some need to find things to complain about it seems. Some players are under performing. Who cares we are still winning. It's a team sport our team is good even if some pieces are not performing up to expectation. We are one of if not the best team in the league defensively.

Boston's top two point players last season got 62 points. They only had one 30 goal scorer. Three 20 goal scorers and you know what they won the cup.

HooliganX2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 06:33 PM
  #123
Mike Liut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,968
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
We are winning games. We are one of the top teams in the NHL. I really wish our fans would enjoy having a winning team. Instead some need to find things to complain about it seems. Some players are under performing. Who cares we are still winning. It's a team sport our team is good even if some pieces are not performing up to expectation. We are one of if not the best team in the league defensively.

Boston's top two point players last season got 62 points. They only had one 30 goal scorer. Three 20 goal scorers and you know what they won the cup.


That's why I said I would wait until after the season to move him. I don't want to ruin any chemistry this team has.

Mike Liut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 06:34 PM
  #124
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,744
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
We are winning games. We are one of the top teams in the NHL. I really wish our fans would enjoy having a winning team. Instead some need to find things to complain about it seems. Some players are under performing. Who cares we are still winning. It's a team sport our team is good even if some pieces are not performing up to expectation. We are one of if not the best team in the league defensively.

Boston's top two point players last season were 62 points. They only had one 30 goal scorer. Three 20 goal scorers and you know what they won the cup.
It's not like we aren't enjoying it and I wouldn't say I'm complaining. I was at all the games during the Kitchen years and I just want the best possible team in the playoffs. We are becoming a one line team and that isn't a good recipe for success. Boston didn't have elite production, but that had a balanced attack and got production out of everyone, at least the top 3 lines. What happens if Backes, Oshie, or Perron get hurt, we are going to be in trouble.

I don't think we can win the Cup, unless we get at least 2 lines scoring consistently. Right now we got one line scoring and the other lines or the PP chipping in, but not consistently.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-22-2012, 06:34 PM
  #125
Mike Liut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,968
vCash: 50
New owner trades Stewart and signs Parise

Mike Liut is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.