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Pierre Gauthier: International Jetsetter (scouted NSH, NYR, NJ, CGY, LA, ANA...)

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Old
02-16-2012, 03:29 PM
  #751
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I hate Gauthier but this BS that he could have gotten more for Halak is ridiculous. Halak's contract that he signed in St. Louis as an RFA was equivalent to a 1st and a 3rd round pick in an offer sheet scenario. We got Eller and Schultz, a 1st and 3rd round pick. A team isn't going to give more than the player's value in an RFA situation. We got what he was worth OR St. Louis got a great deal in signing Halak at that price. Which one is it? He's not worth more than that to me.

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02-16-2012, 03:29 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Plus it's not like it was a CIA secret that a goalie was probably changing address in Montreal the summer of 2010. Both were RFA's and wanted the #1 job. Same with Cammalleri, after his comments in the paper and being unhappy about ice time...I'm sure a team interested in him and willing to make a fair offer would pick up the phone...
That's exactly what St-Louis did after the Habs got eliminated by Philly. Blues GM called up PG and said "we know u need to get rid of one goalie and we're interested in either which one u want to get rid of."

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02-16-2012, 03:32 PM
  #753
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Plus it's not like it was a CIA secret that a goalie was probably changing address in Montreal the summer of 2010. Both were RFA's and wanted the #1 job. Same with Cammalleri, after his comments in the paper and being unhappy about ice time...I'm sure a team interested in him and willing to make a fair offer would pick up the phone...
Or maybe the GMs who knew that Halak was on his way out of Montreal could have been more assertive and inquire about Halak and a possible trade?

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02-16-2012, 03:37 PM
  #754
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To people saying GMs should've known...I mean, they traded him before the draft, before July 1st.

You don't think, MAYBE, some of these guys were busy and possibly thought or were told that Halak would be dealt a bit later than he was?

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02-16-2012, 03:40 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
To people saying GMs should've known...I mean, they traded him before the draft, before July 1st.

You don't think, MAYBE, some of these guys were busy and possibly thought or were told that Halak would be dealt a bit later than he was?
So now not only did he not tell anyone, he possibly told people he'd be dealt later? Are we making up facts now? I hope you don't live in what ifs in your own life lol the possibilities are endless if you do

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02-16-2012, 03:40 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
To people saying GMs should've known...I mean, they traded him before the draft, before July 1st.

You don't think, MAYBE, some of these guys were busy and possibly thought or were told that Halak would be dealt a bit later than he was?
They were busy? They thought he would get traded a few weeks later so didn't even bother to inquire?

These sad little pot-shots at Gauthier are just getting to new levels.

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02-16-2012, 03:44 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Inf1n1te View Post
+16 (ranked 35th in the entire league) on a terrible team, while playing top minutes every game and versus top lines.

1st in the league in block shots (26 more then the 2nd).

I'd give contracts like this anytime to a guy like Gorges.
Other players have blocked shots for the Habs. It's always a Hab near the top or tops. IMHO a lot of it has to do with the "system" that the Habs have been playing under Carbs and JM. Hamrlik was tops too but never got the acclaim that Gorges and Gill get. And Gorges works the PK too so one would expect blocked shots. It takes guts to block them and I won't take that away from Gorges or any other player but I wouldn't want to overvalue that trait either.

His + / - is good but what does it mean really? Surely he's not poor defensively and I never said he was.

My "meh" is more about the contract than the player. Six years to me is too long for a rather average player. I like Gorges but I like Emelin much better because of his physical play. Emelin has a higher ceiling IMO. Paying D specialists like Gorges is okay I just wish he'd be more physical and not be pushed into the crease.

The Habs are paying Kaberle 4.25 to be an offensive specialist and Gorges close to 4 to be a D specialist. That's about 8.1 mil for two specialists that can do next to nothing to fill each other's role in case of injuries. I'd rather a solid two-way d-man in case of injuries. You have MAB and Gill filling those "specialist roles" for less than half. I just don't consider the Gorges "contract" a "great" signing by Gauthier.

The Habs are rolling seven D to get a job done and still can't get it done. Gauthier failed to recognize what got this team through numerous D injuries the two years prior to this one.

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02-16-2012, 03:49 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
To people saying GMs should've known...I mean, they traded him before the draft, before July 1st.

You don't think, MAYBE, some of these guys were busy and possibly thought or were told that Halak would be dealt a bit later than he was?
Theodore, Nabokov, Turco, Niitymaki, Hedberg, Ellis and Martin Biron were all going to be UFAs on July 1st and were all decent goaltenders at that time and also eventually Niemi became available as a FA. If Gauthier waited until July 1st and got too greedy there is a risk we could've got less in return for Halak as teams wanting him could've just signed a UFA if the price got too high. There is also the chance that Gauthier could've got more if he waited until the draft but there is also the risk he could've gotten less..

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02-16-2012, 03:53 PM
  #759
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Theodore, Nabokov, Turco, Niitymaki, Hedberg, Ellis and Martin Biron were all going to be UFAs on July 1st and were all decent goaltenders at that time and also eventually Niemi became available as a FA. If Gauthier waited until July 1st and got too greedy there is a risk we could've got less in return for Halak as teams wanting him could've just signed a UFA if the price got too high.
Hmmm..........is that what that poster really meant? I thought the debate was whether or not Gauthier "shopped" Halak? Or did he have his sights set on Eller and Eller only? You know - like Washington got a first round pick for a 'tender. And at the time wasn't Eller's shoulder questionable?

Me - I would have fielded offers for both Price and Halak. LOL

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02-16-2012, 03:54 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Other players have blocked shots for the Habs. It's always a Hab near the top or tops. IMHO a lot of it has to do with the "system" that the Habs have been playing under Carbs and JM. Hamrlik was tops too but never got the acclaim that Gorges and Gill get. And Gorges works the PK too so one would expect blocked shots. It takes guts to block them and I won't take that away from Gorges or any other player but I wouldn't want to overvalue that trait either.

His + / - is good but what does it mean really? Surely he's not poor defensively and I never said he was.

My "meh" is more about the contract than the player. Six years to me is too long for a rather average player. I like Gorges but I like Emelin much better because of his physical play. Emelin has a higher ceiling IMO. Paying D specialists like Gorges is okay I just wish he'd be more physical and not be pushed into the crease.

The Habs are paying Kaberle 4.25 to be an offensive specialist and Gorges close to 4 to be a D specialist. That's about 8.1 mil for two specialists that can do next to nothing to fill each other's role in case of injuries. I'd rather a solid two-way d-man in case of injuries. You have MAB and Gill filling those "specialist roles" for less than half. I just don't consider the Gorges "contract" a "great" signing by Gauthier.

The Habs are rolling seven D to get a job done and still can't get it done. Gauthier failed to recognize what got this team through numerous D injuries the two years prior to this one.
You were one of my fav posters here but ever since Hamrlik was let go, you've been clouded by fanboy vision. Hamrlik in 2012/13 would've been really bad for the team. Simple.

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02-16-2012, 03:57 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
I hate Gauthier but this BS that he could have gotten more for Halak is ridiculous. Halak's contract that he signed in St. Louis as an RFA was equivalent to a 1st and a 3rd round pick in an offer sheet scenario. We got Eller and Schultz, a 1st and 3rd round pick. A team isn't going to give more than the player's value in an RFA situation. We got what he was worth OR St. Louis got a great deal in signing Halak at that price. Which one is it? He's not worth more than that to me.
To add

Had the Habs waited, and possible waited too long until July 1st, and Halak signed an offer sheet, we would be even more screwed. PG would have had to either match, keep Halak and have to trade Price, or trade a 1st and 3rd pick, and having no idea where those pick would end up.

And PG said he wanted prospect that were closer to being NHL ready, which Eller and Schultz were when comparing the draft picks we would have got.

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02-16-2012, 04:06 PM
  #762
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So now not only did he not tell anyone, he possibly told people he'd be dealt later? Are we making up facts now? I hope you don't live in what ifs in your own life lol the possibilities are endless if you do
There is at least 3 occasions in recent history that another GM has said he wasn't aware a player we recently traded was available or being dealt at that point (Rivet, Halak and Cammalleri).

I dunno about making up facts, but this is a weird trend to say the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
They were busy? They thought he would get traded a few weeks later so didn't even bother to inquire?

These sad little pot-shots at Gauthier are just getting to new levels.
Yeah man, heading into both the draft and the opening of free agency clearly isn't a busy time for hockey organizations.

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02-16-2012, 04:18 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
There is at least 3 occasions in recent history that another GM has said he wasn't aware a player we recently traded was available or being dealt at that point (Rivet, Halak and Cammalleri).

I dunno about making up facts, but this is a weird trend to say the least.



Yeah man, heading into both the draft and the opening of free agency clearly isn't a busy time for hockey organizations.
That a poor excuse, most teams were out of the playoffs, and had nothing to do. Plus GM have ast GM and so forth to do a lot of the work. In some cases the ast GM is the one doing most of the leg work on signings and trades.

If a GM didn't know a Cammy was available he should be fired, because not only should a GM always be asking about players around the league, the fact that Cammy was struggling and had such a big fuss about him should have been an alarm to that GM, unless he didn't think much of Cammy and probaly wouldn't have even thought twice about making an offer even if he knew.

To add

Burke never said he didn't know Rivet was available he said asked Gainey to give him the last shot, and Gainey took the San Jose offer.

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02-16-2012, 04:19 PM
  #764
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Something the "Halak could have land more" apologists seem to also forget, is that Gauthier basically traded him at the very best moment possible, right after he had huge exposure because of our playoff run. Yet, Halak had been in trading proposition since forever (remember the Ryder+Halak+2nd meme?)

Gauthier could have easily get less, had he traded him too soon, or waited too late until July 1st.

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02-16-2012, 04:22 PM
  #765
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You were one of my fav posters here but ever since Hamrlik was let go, you've been clouded by fanboy vision. Hamrlik in 2012/13 would've been really bad for the team. Simple.
I agree. I don't blame PG for not signing Hamr to a two year deal. I blame him for failing to replace him with veteran shutdown size. Realistically we needed to upgrade on Hamr as our #1 shutdown LD. PG didn't even fill the gap properly. On the bright side, Emelin's a force and can potentially be that man in the future, but for this year Hamr's departure was not properly dealt with. Too many soft PMD, not enough big-minute, big body workhorses. Hamr wasn't the answer, but it was still PG's job to find one.

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02-16-2012, 04:27 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
You were one of my fav posters here but ever since Hamrlik was let go, you've been clouded by fanboy vision. Hamrlik in 2012/13 would've been really bad for the team. Simple.
Well that's debatable I guess. I don't know what to say. In the last two games though I've seen a bunch of "specialists" look like pylons or gift the puck away for goals. Admittedly I am a little hard pressed to think that Hamr's experience could not have helped this year or next. Remind me again how many leads the Habs have coughed up? Yes.........it's worked out much better without Hamr or a like vet
d-man
to fill the inevitable void that Markov would leave. Who'd a thunk Markov would not make it through the season.

And Emelin will be better than Gorges. How much you gonna give him because he actually could hurt someone? I like Emelin.

<sigh>

I WAS one of your fav's?

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02-16-2012, 04:28 PM
  #767
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Another thing, it was talked about on L'antichambre and I thought it sounded like it made sense. They were talking about two different of methods in trading,

One way like Burke does it, tells everyone someone is available (ex Schenn), and tells everyone to make the best offer, and he takes that, good since everyone is offering, but bad in the sense that a player knows he is getting trade.

Another is the way PG has been doing things, first is by looking for the player he wants, ex, PG wants to trade Cammy, but only if X/Y/Z players come in return, and only speaks with those teams in regards to trading Cammy.

I don't know if it makes sense, but I think it describes how things have been working, specially the way PG looks at trading, it might expalin a few things, like not going back to Burke to see if he could beat the 1st rounder and Gorges that San Jose offered. Heck maybe it was PG (ast GM/Head Pro Scout) that asked for Gorges. We blame him for scouting Gomez, might as well give him credit for Gorges.

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02-16-2012, 04:30 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post

Yeah man, heading into both the draft and the opening of free agency clearly isn't a busy time for hockey organizations.
Let me get it right, these mystery gms were much too busy planning trades to inquire about a trade for Halak? Does this actually make sense to you before you post it?

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02-16-2012, 04:34 PM
  #769
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Let me get it right, these mystery gms were much too busy planning trades to inquire about a trade for Halak? Does this actually make sense to you before you post it?
Getting the draft plan, signing players, establishing needs, maybe already in negotiations for other players, talking to the bosses, etc.

Are you that oblivious to the work of a General manager? In the busiest stretch of their hockey season?

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02-16-2012, 04:44 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Getting the draft plan, signing players, establishing needs, maybe already in negotiations for other players, talking to the bosses, etc.

Are you that oblivious to the work of a General manager? In the busiest stretch of their hockey season?
Are you that oblivious that getting a starting goaltender trumps all that ******** you have been throwing against the wall hoping something will stick?

"We are much too busy looking for a trade to inquire about a trade!"

Edit: That isn't even saying that getting closer to the deadline means you are more desperate for players so why would these mystery gms not even look into a possible trade earlier?

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02-16-2012, 05:08 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
There is at least 3 occasions in recent history that another GM has said he wasn't aware a player we recently traded was available or being dealt at that point (Rivet, Halak and Cammalleri).
Like it's been said already, My grandmother knew that Rivet, Halak and Cammalleri were going to be traded. If those mystery GMs didn't know, then they're incompetent.

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02-16-2012, 05:12 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
There is at least 3 occasions in recent history that another GM has said he wasn't aware a player we recently traded was available or being dealt at that point (Rivet, Halak and Cammalleri).

I dunno about making up facts, but this is a weird trend to say the least.



Yeah man, heading into both the draft and the opening of free agency clearly isn't a busy time for hockey organizations.
So there are 3 incompetent GM`s in the NHL...tell me something I DON`T know.

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02-16-2012, 05:20 PM
  #773
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Are we on this teams didn't know Halak was available/Gauthier only spoke with one team nonsense?

Here once again to debunk the myth:

McKenzie's twitter

Quote:
TSNBobMcKenzie
Sources say PHI, TB and SJ were others pitching hard on Halak, What's clear now is that, in spite of playoffs, Price was and is MTL's guy.
From Kevin Allen's twitter(who broke the Halak trade btw and is very very reputable)
Quote:
The Atlanta Thrashers talked to the Montreal Canadiens about acquiring Jaroslav Halak before he was moved to the St. Louis Blues. I know the Canadiens wanted prospect Patrice Cormier as part of the deal. Several teams have called about Cormier. Take the Thrashers' interest in Halak as a subtle indication that the Thrashers aren't close to re-signing Pavel Kubina.
Enough of this **** already.

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02-16-2012, 05:26 PM
  #774
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Well that's debatable I guess. I don't know what to say. In the last two games though I've seen a bunch of "specialists" look like pylons or gift the puck away for goals. Admittedly I am a little hard pressed to think that Hamr's experience could not have helped this year or next. Remind me again how many leads the Habs have coughed up? Yes.........it's worked out much better without Hamr or a like vet
d-man
to fill the inevitable void that Markov would leave. Who'd a thunk Markov would not make it through the season.

And Emelin will be better than Gorges. How much you gonna give him because he actually could hurt someone? I like Emelin.

<sigh>

I WAS one of your fav's?
LOL this year, Hamr would've been a good addition. I never debated that because I agree. He would've been a good transition into next season where we would go after another veteran but still able top4 D. Hamr wanted 2yrs. Fine, but I firmly believe that he will keep sliding enough that he will be a liability. He already started his degradation from a top pairing to just top 4 and my prediction is that he will only be able to play bottom pairing minutes next season. For the money/contract, it's a deal breaker. Where Goat made the mistake is not properly replacing Wiz and Hamr's veteran minutes. Gorges stepped up but that's a half of the pairing.

To recap:
Not signing Hamr for the term he wanted: good.
Not replacing him with another capable minute-eater: bad.

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02-16-2012, 05:27 PM
  #775
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The Kings are desperate for some scoring, so I wouldnt rule out that possibility.

Dude is hot? He has 6 points in 35 games...
I also think A.Kost to L.A. makes alot of sense..

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