HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

burkes not paid to make the playoffs, so now what?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-17-2012, 11:11 PM
  #51
anderson3133
Registered User
 
anderson3133's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kitchener
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Not trolling, but Ottawa being as low as they were last year was more of a 'perfect storm' of events than the team itself.

We had a bunch of players that were getting too comfortable and not playing to their potential, there was the Richardson tragedy, there were the injuries to Spezza and Alfredsson, there was Elliott playing the worst hockey in the league, there were a number of players that were having career worst years and struggling with injuries, and there was Clouston left unable to adjust to a team with no confidence.

Ottawa being as low as they were last year was not indicative of their abilities. To add to that they cut the deadweight, brought in some decent to good talent, and the vets rebounded from bad seasons and recovered from injury. Adding Paulrus as the coach was kind of icing on the cake. We were never as bad as our record indicated last year.

This is what I have been saying since last year and you can see it being true just by watching the team this season.
Unfortunately, the people who don't actually pay attention don't realize that last year Ottawa hit a major fluke season and were able to capitalize on a high draft pick because of it.

anderson3133 is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:23 PM
  #52
Curtinho
YNWA
 
Curtinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,306
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
Unfortunately, the people who don't actually pay attention don't realize that last year Ottawa hit a major fluke season and were able to capitalize on a high draft pick because of it.
Unfortunately this includes pretty much everyone...fans of the team, fans of other teams and analysts. I don't know how people really believed what was being said about Ottawa when you consider what they had at their disposal. You have to look beyond just the numbers and the standings to see why Ottawa was where they were last season.

It's not really fair to compare Ottawa's situation to Toronto's.

Curtinho is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:27 PM
  #53
SuperSaiyanBeastmode
Registered User
 
SuperSaiyanBeastmode's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,958
vCash: 500
I've said it, and I'll say it again. If we don't make the playoffs in 2013, burke needs to be ****canned, and a riot to rival vancouver should happen(9 ****ing years without playoffs...I'll riot to that).

SuperSaiyanBeastmode is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:31 PM
  #54
-DeMo-
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,795
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to -DeMo-
Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
beauch got us lupul and jake..... komi was pretty bad not going to lie..

armdog just has been injured to much and connolly has played half a year give it time
it doesn't really matter who we got for them they were poor players for the Toronto Maple Leafs making them bad signings. Mac's been really the only good one. and even if Army was healthy he's not worth 3 million imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NigelTufnel View Post
Really? Really!? Really!!???

They were all FREE agents. I will re-iterate the FREE part. Those signings didn't hinder us from anything and if anything, they represent some good asset management on our part.

That list now equals: Lupul, Gardiner, Komisarek, Armstrong, Conolly, Franson, MacArthur, and Lombardi...all for FREE...and that is really what you choose to take issue with?
so what if they were free they still all played BAD as Leafs period and didn't justify making the money they have. that makes them bad signings, and mistakes. I never said Burke has done a bad job overall, the poster above said Burke had made 1 bad decision and thats not firing Wilson I was just pointing out others. you're making it sound like it doesn't matter what you pay for someone in the UFA market because they're all free which is ridiculously false.

I will point out Lombardi and Franson are not leafs because we signed UFA's ethier. Lebda was basically in the trade because something had to go the other way. if we didn't have Lebda the trade would have still happened it just would have been some other AHL garbage player going the other way. you know that just like every other fan of this team so not sure why they were added to your list I didn't say anything about them.

-DeMo- is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:42 PM
  #55
bberard34
Registered User
 
bberard34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cup67 View Post
look at that face, the gringe that stole hockey from canada
Yes because the Leafs were so stellar before he arrived!

bberard34 is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:46 PM
  #56
TML g u n n e R s*
EDC 2013
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Air Canada Center
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,011
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Yahoo to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Skype™ to TML g u n n e R s*
Quote:
Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
it doesn't really matter who we got for them they were poor players for the Toronto Maple Leafs making them bad signings. Mac's been really the only good one. and even if Army was healthy he's not worth 3 million imo.

but we are talking about burke here not just signings..

TML g u n n e R s* is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:49 PM
  #57
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,438
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
Unfortunately this includes pretty much everyone...fans of the team, fans of other teams and analysts. I don't know how people really believed what was being said about Ottawa when you consider what they had at their disposal. You have to look beyond just the numbers and the standings to see why Ottawa was where they were last season.

It's not really fair to compare Ottawa's situation to Toronto's.
The thing with Ottawa is that they can also rebuild on the go. When Burke came over he really had nothing, sure he drafted Kadri and a few others and the organization had Schenn, Reimer, Kulemin, Grabo etc but they were all question marks.

But there is no excuses for this team. It's capable of making the playoffs and if they miss it, I can only hope Burke fires Wilson, that would be the lone positive of the season.

Pi is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:50 PM
  #58
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 34,662
vCash: 500
I wouldn't want to fire Burke now because of the back to square one scenario we'd have with a new GM. In all fairness he has won a good number of trades and the team does have a lot of assets whereas it was essentially a wasteland in 2008-09. However, Burke is not infallible, and if the market won't yield a number one center or number one goalie, or whatever missing link we need to solidify this thing, and he can't develop those assets internally, he will be headed towards failure. Things worked out in Anaheim, but this is the same GM who went to war in Vancouver with Dan Cloutier in his net, so who know?

Stephen is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:55 PM
  #59
hdtrax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,370
vCash: 500
Thanks OP.

hdtrax is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:57 PM
  #60
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,438
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I wouldn't want to fire Burke now because of the back to square one scenario we'd have with a new GM. In all fairness he has won a good number of trades and the team does have a lot of assets whereas it was essentially a wasteland in 2008-09. However, Burke is not infallible, and if the market won't yield a number one center or number one goalie, or whatever missing link we need to solidify this thing, and he can't develop those assets internally, he will be headed towards failure. Things worked out in Anaheim, but this is the same GM who went to war in Vancouver with Dan Cloutier in his net, so who know?
That's exactly what I'm worried about. It's not like Ottawa is going to give you Spezza, or Anaheim will come knocking on our door and give us Getzlaf.

And the centers who do become UFA's will not come here because Burke's unwillingness to give contracts longer than 5 years OR circumvent the cap..

We need that #1C and a god damn consistent goalie who doesn't give up 1 softie per game. If we just get a good goalie half our problems go away (as we saw last year when Reimer was actually good).

Pi is offline  
Old
01-17-2012, 11:59 PM
  #61
Curtinho
YNWA
 
Curtinho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,306
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
That's exactly what I'm worried about. It's not like Ottawa is going to give you Spezza, or Anaheim will come knocking on our door and give us Getzlaf.

And the centers who do become UFA's will not come here because Burke's unwillingness to give contracts longer than 5 years OR circumvent the cap..

We need that #1C and a god damn consistent goalie who doesn't give up 1 softie per game. If we just get a good goalie half our problems go away (as we saw last year when Reimer was actually good).
The main issue is that you pretty much need to draft a #1 C. If you look at the #1 centres, true #1 centres, around the league you can see that very, very few have not been drafted by the team they are playing for.

Curtinho is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 12:04 AM
  #62
TML g u n n e R s*
EDC 2013
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Air Canada Center
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,011
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Yahoo to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Skype™ to TML g u n n e R s*
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
The main issue is that you pretty much need to draft a #1 C. If you look at the #1 centres, true #1 centres, around the league you can see that very, very few have not been drafted by the team they are playing for.
burke is not waiting that long....

TML g u n n e R s* is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 12:05 AM
  #63
NigelTufnel
Registered User
 
NigelTufnel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
it doesn't really matter who we got for them they were poor players for the Toronto Maple Leafs making them bad signings. Mac's been really the only good one. and even if Army was healthy he's not worth 3 million imo.



so what if they were free they still all played BAD as Leafs period and didn't justify making the money they have. that makes them bad signings, and mistakes. I never said Burke has done a bad job overall, the poster above said Burke had made 1 bad decision and thats not firing Wilson I was just pointing out others. you're making it sound like it doesn't matter what you pay for someone in the UFA market because they're all free which is ridiculously false.

I will point out Lombardi and Franson are not leafs because we signed UFA's ethier. Lebda was basically in the trade because something had to go the other way. if we didn't have Lebda the trade would have still happened it just would have been some other AHL garbage player going the other way. you know that just like every other fan of this team so not sure why they were added to your list I didn't say anything about them.
I just dont agree that it constitutes a "mistake" or "bad signings." When we're able to bring someone in for free, and then move them in return for assets, it's a good move in my books.

I get it that the salary cap is a concern, buy as far as I'm concerned, as long as we have the space, it's not an issue.

So, no. I'm not saying it doesn't matter what you pay for a UFA, but I am saying that the risk in overpaying for any UFA is lessened by the fact that you dont give up anything other than cap space.

And as to why I included Franson and Lombardi, I would think it's pretty obvious that it's because that's who we got in return for certain free agents.

NigelTufnel is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 12:09 AM
  #64
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,438
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
burke is not waiting that long....
He's already waiting for like 3 years now.. Why did Sundin have to retire?

Pi is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 12:11 AM
  #65
TML g u n n e R s*
EDC 2013
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Air Canada Center
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,011
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Yahoo to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Skype™ to TML g u n n e R s*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
He's already waiting for like 3 years now.. Why did Sundin have to retire?
i mean through the draft.

and i knoww

TML g u n n e R s* is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 12:15 AM
  #66
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 34,662
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJam613 View Post
The main issue is that you pretty much need to draft a #1 C. If you look at the #1 centres, true #1 centres, around the league you can see that very, very few have not been drafted by the team they are playing for.
Of course. Burke isn't going to patiently develop one of those, so if a trade or signing doesn't happen, we just basically have to hope someone just kind of grows into it, like Ryan Kesler did in Vancouver, AFTER Burke has probably been fired.

Stephen is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 02:42 AM
  #67
-DeMo-
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,795
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to -DeMo-
Quote:
Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
but we are talking about burke here not just signings..
we were talking about mistakes Burke has made that includes stuff like keeping Wilson around to trades to UFA signings you said he's made none other then keeping wilson around when clearly the guys I mentioned are mistakes that he's made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NigelTufnel View Post
I just dont agree that it constitutes a "mistake" or "bad signings." When we're able to bring someone in for free, and then move them in return for assets, it's a good move in my books.

I get it that the salary cap is a concern, buy as far as I'm concerned, as long as we have the space, it's not an issue.

So, no. I'm not saying it doesn't matter what you pay for a UFA, but I am saying that the risk in overpaying for any UFA is lessened by the fact that you dont give up anything other than cap space.

And as to why I included Franson and Lombardi, I would think it's pretty obvious that it's because that's who we got in return for certain free agents.
just because Burke redeems himself and makes a good trade doesn't change the fact that they were bad signings for the leafs. if he signed him and before they played a game he traded them for someone else then sure. and please dude do you honestly think Nashville was like yo were not making the trade unless Lebda is in the trade. he was a salary dump just to make it a real trade... if we didn't have Lebda we would have just thrown someone else who has no shot at playing in the NHL in the deal. I cannot believe you seriously believe Lebda is the reason we got Franson and Lombardi.

-DeMo- is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 03:03 AM
  #68
vflawiess
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Relax we're the youngest team in the league, you guys really get annoying after a leafs loss. Bipolar to the max. If we win Thursday this board will all start praising the leafs. We played a solid game but couldnt cash in on our chances, move on it's not the end of the world

vflawiess is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 03:06 AM
  #69
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 7,914
vCash: 500
Context is required for fools who lose their heads like this OP.

Burke's comments "not paid to make the playoffs" was in reference to the PTS interview he did.

He's not paid to make the playoffs, he's paid to win the Stanley Cup and that's his objective.

He said we could have made the playoffs last year, but it would have come at a cost; youth + most likely, an ass kicking in the first round.

THAT's the point he's trying to make.

Let's hope our OP comes back at some point today, with his head back on straight, after his little panic attack last night

Tak7 is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 04:51 AM
  #70
hullsy47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by swedishplayers View Post
Why exactly does Burke "need" to stay?

For all he has done well, I feel he has made many mistakes as well.

Personally feel we missed out when Doug Armstrong went to St. Louis.
both gone if the leafs miss the playoffs .....new ownership will let burke run it his waythe rest of the way ....but the negative spinnoff wiil be too much for rogers /bell to swallow at their coming out party
burke knew coming in he was rolling the dice with his goaltending .......of all the trades hes made
hes falied to land a big no 1 center ....and make sure he had solid veteran presence in net .....a few more losses and this year is a failure

hullsy47 is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 05:31 AM
  #71
nsleaf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,237
vCash: 500
Optimism is fading. Deja vu creeping in. Go Leafs go.........

nsleaf is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 05:59 AM
  #72
hullsy47
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtmoney67 View Post
Yes because the Leafs were so stellar before he arrived!
we really dont know how bad the leafs would be right now ......i mean ferguson had us in a position to get a lottery pick at least .......im not a brian burke fan ...never have been .....but ever since he shot his mouth off about trades ,this team has been walking on eggshells ....this next 3 game have to be wins ....only 15 or so homegames left after that ....im not impressed

hullsy47 is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 06:01 AM
  #73
Sens Rule
Registered User
 
Sens Rule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,637
vCash: 500
The problem with Burke is loyalty and stubborness.

His player movements are fine.. mistakes and wins.. the problem is the coach. Wilson is a cancer... evident to everyone for over a year. Burke won't bite the bullet and fire him. His team is not going to make playoffs because of it.

Murray... got rid of 3 coaches he hired. Bad to have made the mistake of hiring them.... but at least he got rid of them. Maclean is awesome. He is just going to be a great coach forever.... it is so obvious.

Burke is too loyal or arrogant to get rid of Wilson. He needs to be gone NOW. He needs to find a great coach in offseason.

It is funny how a good trait... loyalty can be such a negative one too.

Right now Wilson is a CANCER. Burke is very good generally... but if he persist with Wilson Burke will even lose his job over it eventually.

Sens Rule is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 06:11 AM
  #74
Yosho
Logic
 
Yosho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kitchener, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,577
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSaiyanBeastmode View Post
I've said it, and I'll say it again. If we don't make the playoffs in 2013, burke needs to be ****canned, and a riot to rival vancouver should happen(9 ****ing years without playoffs...I'll riot to that).

Yosho is offline  
Old
01-18-2012, 06:19 AM
  #75
Sonny21
Registerd User
 
Sonny21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,152
vCash: 50
I like what Burke is doing even though I want wilson gone. If he doesn't trade our 1st round pick in all this pressure from fans and etc, then I would be even more impressed.

Now saying that, we need a trade period. I think with the amount of dept we have, I don't think it's bad to overpay a bit. As long as it's not with draft picks or our best prospects.

Sonny21 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.