Can we instate a sort of rule? Before someone posts a proposal on the Trade board, post it here and get some reaction here. If everyone says "WTF are you thinking? Bad idea" please don't post it there. I can't be the only one going like this every Habs thread on there.
/rant
PS. that wasn't intended towards you, Vincent01. They wouldn't be adding a 2nd though. I'd be more interested in Clarkson. Weber for Clarkson ish.
Can we instate a sort of rule? Before someone posts a proposal on the Trade board, post it here and get some reaction here. If everyone says "WTF are you thinking? Bad idea" please don't post it there. I can't be the only one going like this every Habs thread on there.
/rant
PS. that wasn't intended towards you, Vincent01. They wouldn't be adding a 2nd though. I'd be more interested in Clarkson. Weber for Clarkson ish.
Hahahahaha.
You make a comment like that and then make a proposal where the main pieces are Weber for Clarkson?
I'm a huge Weber fan, but Clarkson is worth more than him by a lot.
EDIT: I wish this was real. I'm in an online league and just got Jaroslav Halak + David Perron for Carey Price + Travis Moen.
You make a comment like that and then make a proposal where the main pieces are Weber for Clarkson?
I'm a huge Weber fan, but Clarkson is worth more than him by a lot.
EDIT: I wish this was real. I'm in an online league and just got Jaroslav Halak + David Perron for Carey Price + Travis Moen.
I think people undervalue Weber because we have a lot of skilled d-men. People overvalue Clarkson because we need a guy like him(or another). Clarkson has a 2.67 mil cap hit and had 18 points last year. Wouldn't people find Moen overpaid at 2.67 mil/year?
Lars Eller
Jarred Tinordi
Yannick Weber
1st round pick 2013
Jeff Carter
Colombus screwed themselves with the Carter trade, let's not do the same thing please.
Personally I think when you make a trade where you exchange futures you first need to think about wether or not you near enough being a contender that said trade makes you one. An expression I like using is a... from the cup. ... being Carter in that case. I don't think we are, just like Colombus wasn't. So you need to think about when you are gonna be contenders, let's say for the habs something like 2-3 years, now the question becomes will the difference, in 2-3 years, between your main piece, in that case Eller, and Carter be what you've added to the deal and I'm pretty sure that answer is no. But I'm a big Eller fan so I'm biased but I honestly have no trouble thinking that in three years a 25 year old Eller will be an equal or superior player to a 30 year old Carter, espesially since Carter seems quite injury prone. So basically we're not in a position to trade futures right now so ask me in three years.
I think people undervalue Weber because we have a lot of skilled d-men. People overvalue Clarkson because we need a guy like him(or another). Clarkson has a 2.67 mil cap hit and had 18 points last year. Wouldn't people find Moen overpaid at 2.67 mil/year?
Probably. But that doesn't mean you're getting a potential (on pace anyway) 30-goal scorer for a guy who can't even stay in one of the worst team's line-ups.
Probably. But that doesn't mean you're getting a potential (on pace anyway) 30-goal scorer for a guy who can't even stay in one of the worst team's line-ups.
And you know I'm a huge Weber fan.
If Clarkson were to score 30 it would nearly double his career high. I don't think anybody in their right mind would trade for him assuming anything more than 15-20 goals a year, his goals are up this year but he is playing 2:30 more a game and has 5 of those goals on the PP.
If Clarkson were to score 30 it would nearly double his career high. I don't think anybody in their right mind would trade for him assuming anything more than 15-20 goals a year, his goals are up this year but he is playing 2:30 more a game and has 5 of those goals on the PP.
I know, I'm not stupid.
I wouldn't bank on it either - but the point stands that the Devils are probably a playoff team and they aren't going to move Clarkson for a guy who can't stay in a bottom-feeder (at this point) team's line-up. He's on pace for 30-goals for them. He's going nowhere if they don't get an overpayment.
Way too much for Carter. His value has taken a pretty big hit since a couple of years ago.
eller = 3rd line guy
tinordi might never play a game in the nhl
1st round pick may never play a game
weber after 3 years still cant crack the line up, with markov healthy would have played 0 game
I wouldn't bank on it either - but the point stands that the Devils are probably a playoff team and they aren't going to move Clarkson for a guy who can't stay in a bottom-feeder (at this point) team's line-up. He's on pace for 30-goals for them. He's going nowhere if they don't get an overpayment.
If we want a guy like him it would be cheaper to re-sign Moen(no assets needed) and go after a Tootoo, Hordichuk or Prust on the UFA market along with White.
eller = 3rd line guy
tinordi might never play a game in the nhl
1st round pick may never play a game
weber after 3 years still cant crack the line up, with markov healthy would have played 0 game
Others can play that game...Carter plays a soft 1 way game and is signed for a long time, he only has 10 goals this year and is signed for 10 more years.
try to resign him. If he wants to shop around, trade him for the best possible return.
My guess, late 1st or 2nd + prospect
we need to play it with a safe route. no big time sell off (this team is better than it has shown us this year) Just move the guys you don't want for picks/prospects. use our cap space to resign the players we do want an then use the assets gained to land that coveted big centreman (Grigorenko/Galcheniuyk) which, we will likely get from our own 1st anyway
try to resign him. If he wants to shop around, trade him for the best possible return.
My guess, late 1st or 2nd + prospect
we need to play it with a safe route. no big time sell off (this team is better than it has shown us this year) Just move the guys you don't want for picks/prospects. use our cap space to resign the players we do want an then use the assets gained to land that coveted big centreman (Grigorenko/Galcheniuyk) which, we will likely get from our own 1st anyway
I'm a bit torn on AK and Moen...they both bring size and physical play. Moen brings toughness and can kill penalities.
However, with all the young forwards on the way within 2-3 years(Bournival Gallagher Kristo Quailer Holland LeBlanc Avtsin), do we want to commit 2-4 years to those two? Moen can play a 4th line role but if you're going to pay him more than his current 1.5 mil cap hit, do you want 2-2.5 mil on a 4th line?
eller = 3rd line guy
tinordi might never play a game in the nhl
1st round pick may never play a game
weber after 3 years still cant crack the line up, with markov healthy would have played 0 game
That kind of thinking is why we can't build a legit contender. Just giving you an example, in 2007-2008, we could have traded Subban (since back then you could have said that he may never reach the NHL), Latendresse(who was just a third liner back then), and Pacioretty (same as Subban) for the then elite Olli Jokinen (coming of two straight PPG+ seasons). But doing that still wouldn't have won us a cup since we were not a Jokinen away from contention and we'd be even more screwed than we already are right now.
eller = 3rd line guy
tinordi might never play a game in the nhl
1st round pick may never play a game
weber after 3 years still cant crack the line up, with markov healthy would have played 0 game
By that logic, we should try to trade for Columbus' 1st round pick while we're at it. Even if it's Yakupov, hey, he might never play a game. So Columbus would do well to trade it while they can.
I'm a bit torn on AK and Moen...they both bring size and physical play. Moen brings toughness and can kill penalities.
However, with all the young forwards on the way within 2-3 years(Bournival Gallagher Kristo Quailer Holland LeBlanc Avtsin), do we want to commit 2-4 years to those two? Moen can play a 4th line role but if you're going to pay him more than his current 1.5 mil cap hit, do you want 2-2.5 mil on a 4th line?
Out of the ones you mentioned Leblanc (likely next year), Gallagher and Bournival (two years), Avtsin (2-3 years, maybe) are the only ones I see making it as regulars in the NHL with Montreal.
I would much rather sign AK to a 3-4 year deal at about his current cap hit. He can score, hit, play both wings and has good chemistry with Eller.
Moen I see as someone who will try to cash in off what will likely be his best career season. We will be much better off selling him off as a rental and maximizing our investment (as a UFA who signed with us).
Our loss on the physical play will be the remainder of this year...and we are not really looking too much like a contender so it's a minimal hit for long term gain.
If we went with my proposal (and if it actually worked that easily) we'd end up with 4 picks in the top rounds of a very deep draft that could net us one maybe two NHL all-stars and a couple solid NHLers in a couple years to graft onto our core youth in place already.
I'm a bit torn on AK and Moen...they both bring size and physical play. Moen brings toughness and can kill penalities.
However, with all the young forwards on the way within 2-3 years(Bournival Gallagher Kristo Quailer Holland LeBlanc Avtsin), do we want to commit 2-4 years to those two? Moen can play a 4th line role but if you're going to pay him more than his current 1.5 mil cap hit, do you want 2-2.5 mil on a 4th line?
I agree with you. I think AK could get us a first round pick, but I'm not sure if that's worth more to us next year than AK himself. He'll probably want something like Ville Leino got, but a hometown discount could help us get him at 4/year.
As for Moen, looking at the UFAs coming up I think Taylor Pyatt could effectively replace him at 1.5/year. He doesn't fight, but he's big, he hits, and he puts up more points than Moen.
every Habs thread on there.
