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Injury Talk 4.0: Markov practicing with the team, now with contact

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Old
02-09-2012, 05:49 PM
  #451
Goldthorpe
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
He's definately a contributing factor since Gainey said the reports he got on Niinimaa was that he was a top 4 defenseman.
This has little to do with UFA-buying marathon of two years ago.

Nobody is denying that Gauthier didn't work (and thus at least influence) the habs when he was second in command. But it doesn't follow that all moves made under Gainey should automatically be considered when evaluating Gauthier track record, something many posters do regularly and liberally.

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02-09-2012, 05:55 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
According to the made-up lore, Gauthier was behind these decisions as Gainey right-hand man.
If I understand the Gauthier haters.

Gauthier (the scout and advisor) is blamed for bad advice he gave to Gainey.

And when doctors gave Gauthier bad advice on Markov, thats on Gauthier because ultimately he's the GM and signed the contract.

Of course this makes sense in their little world.

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Old
02-09-2012, 05:56 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
If what you said is true, why haven't the medical staff been fired? They have literally cost the team millions of dollars if it was indeed their fault.

Or, the reverse is true, and it was just a bad signing based on bad decisons by our GM.
You don't fire doctors for unusual circumstances
within a prognosis , setbacks happen all the
time these aren't machines we are talking about.
Doctors in Pittsburgh didn't get fired for
missing sids spinal cord injury.
Habs have lost little to nothing
financially it's called insurance....

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Old
02-09-2012, 06:00 PM
  #454
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Really Hard? Is he taking part of an upcoming Curling competition?



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Old
02-09-2012, 06:03 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
He's definately a contributing factor since Gainey said the reports he got on Niinimaa was that he was a top 4 defenseman.
Even if he was, he'd be long retired. Like SK, RIbero didn't have a ton of trade value.

People just can't fathom that some players work out in one place and not in another.

Why would San Jose basically just give us a solid d-man like Gorges for next to nothing? Well at the time he didn't have a pile of value.

This happens to lots of teams but on here we just hear about the Habs under a microscope...Steen was basically given away by Burke, MacArthur by Atlanta, Grabner by Florida, Briere by Phoenix, Beauchemin by Montreal and Columbus. Peverley by Chicago(I think), Fleischmann by Detroit. Every team has 2-3 players they either let go, waived or traded for very little that ended up as pretty good players.

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Old
02-09-2012, 06:13 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
If I understand the Gauthier haters.

Gauthier (the scout and advisor) is blamed for bad advice he gave to Gainey.

And when doctors gave Gauthier bad advice on Markov, thats on Gauthier because ultimately he's the GM and signed the contract.

Of course this makes sense in their little world.
It's also his fault that the veterans that should have been in place in Gill Spacek and Campoli(along with Gorges) got hurt and missed significant time.

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Old
02-09-2012, 06:17 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
If I understand the Gauthier haters.

Gauthier (the scout and advisor) is blamed for bad advice he gave to Gainey.

And when doctors gave Gauthier bad advice on Markov, thats on Gauthier because ultimately he's the GM and signed the contract.

Of course this makes sense in their little world.
It amazes me how Gauthier supporters refuse to hold him accountable for anything. Nothing ever seems to be his fault.

LOL @ people thinking Gainey went rogue and just made random trades as if he actually scouts players without getting any input from his scouts or ass. GM. GTFOH.

As bad as Gainey was..here's one thing I know. This team has gotten worse every single year Gauthier has been here while adding more talent.

This team after this year will have gone through 2 head coaches in Gauthier's 2 1/2 years with the team.

This team is now a laughing stock and have gone from class to classless under Gauthier's watch.

We have the same holes we had with Gainey.

The Montreal Canadiens deserve better.

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Old
02-09-2012, 06:21 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It's also his fault that the veterans that should have been in place in Gill Spacek and Campoli(along with Gorges) got hurt and missed significant time.
But I was told Gill is useless, Spacek is so crappy that the trade for Kaberle was a fleecing by Gauthier and Campoli is an AHLer.

If my GM came to me and said "I know we stunk, but we were missing Spacek and Campoli"

I'd fire him on the spot.

Injuries are part of the game. The injury excuse is almost as tiring as the "but we didn't have Markov" excuse.

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Old
02-09-2012, 06:31 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Even if he was, he'd be long retired. Like SK, RIbero didn't have a ton of trade value.

People just can't fathom that some players work out in one place and not in another.

Why would San Jose basically just give us a solid d-man like Gorges for next to nothing? Well at the time he didn't have a pile of value.

This happens to lots of teams but on here we just hear about the Habs under a microscope...Steen was basically given away by Burke, MacArthur by Atlanta, Grabner by Florida, Briere by Phoenix, Beauchemin by Montreal and Columbus. Peverley by Chicago(I think), Fleischmann by Detroit. Every team has 2-3 players they either let go, waived or traded for very little that ended up as pretty good players.
Pevs was Nashville

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Old
02-09-2012, 06:36 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post

As bad as Gainey was..here's one thing I know. This team has gotten worse every single year Gauthier has been here while adding more talent.
???

Habs go from 8th place to 6th place the following year. That is not worse every year. It actually occured with less talent considering Markov, Gorges and Pacioretty were all out near the with injuries. Until Pacioretty's injury the habs were 3 points out of 3rd.

As far as defending every move goes. I thought the Sergei move sucked and that Lapierre shouldn't have been traded. Aside from that I have no problems with Gauthier. I don't think he's been great nor do I think he's been as bad as he's made out to be.

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Old
02-09-2012, 06:45 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
But I was told Gill is useless, Spacek is so crappy that the trade for Kaberle was a fleecing by Gauthier and Campoli is an AHLer.

If my GM came to me and said "I know we stunk, but we were missing Spacek and Campoli"

I'd fire him on the spot.

Injuries are part of the game. The injury excuse is almost as tiring as the "but we didn't have Markov" excuse.
So a smart GM would have not gotten Cole and Campoli and invested 5-6 years and 5+ mil in a guy like Wisniewski? Brilliant!

Guys like Spacek Gill and Campoli have a ton of NHL experience, though they are not impact players, having them there to break in the young guys would have made it an easier trasition without Markov. At one point we had our FOUR most experienced d-men(plus AK and Gionta) out of the lineup. No amount of planning can account for that.

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Old
02-09-2012, 10:10 PM
  #462
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I want to know when Markov will come back!

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Old
02-09-2012, 10:42 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
I want to know when Markov will come back!
Feb. 29 2013/2014. Then he'll go on to be 5 PPG and win the Norris.

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Old
02-09-2012, 10:52 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Even if he was, he'd be long retired. Like SK, RIbero didn't have a ton of trade value.

People just can't fathom that some players work out in one place and not in another.

Why would San Jose basically just give us a solid d-man like Gorges for next to nothing? Well at the time he didn't have a pile of value.

This happens to lots of teams but on here we just hear about the Habs under a microscope...Steen was basically given away by Burke, MacArthur by Atlanta, Grabner by Florida, Briere by Phoenix, Beauchemin by Montreal and Columbus. Peverley by Chicago(I think), Fleischmann by Detroit. Every team has 2-3 players they either let go, waived or traded for very little that ended up as pretty good players.
Aaah...

The voice of reason is so refreshing around here.

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Old
02-09-2012, 11:49 PM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So a smart GM would have not gotten Cole and Campoli and invested 5-6 years and 5+ mil in a guy like Wisniewski? Brilliant!

Guys like Spacek Gill and Campoli have a ton of NHL experience, though they are not impact players, having them there to break in the young guys would have made it an easier trasition without Markov. At one point we had our FOUR most experienced d-men(plus AK and Gionta) out of the lineup. No amount of planning can account for that.
The same smart GM who signed an injured, aging player to 3 years to only play two of them? Then he had to pick up Campoli and pay him almost $2M and then had to get Kaberle for another $4M+ for the next 2 years. But it was the doctor's fault!!!!. Signing Markov was a risky move and Gauthier lost. Just like trading for Gomez was a risky move and Gainey lost.

Campoli, Gill, Spacek. All 3 are soft. Spacek is decent defensively, Gill is good PKer and Campoli couldn't get a deal until the end of the summer. This is your excuse for the team being crapola? If I'm Molson and Gauthier uses this excuse, I fire him on the spot.

The injuries excuse. Fans have gotten so used to falling back on injuries and Markov. It's pathetic.

Even Gauthier himself said injuries are not an excuse. Our best players have been healthy (Patches, Pleks, PK, Gorges, Price, Cole)..but you seriously have the audacity to bring up Campoli and Spacek? Might as well bring up the Gomez injury too. LOL

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Old
02-10-2012, 12:18 AM
  #466
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Gauthier hasn't been gold but the Habs don't look as though they were turned into a wreck. Too bad it's so late or they could overtake several teams this season. The Devils put on a spurt and came close to making the playoffs last year after a dreadful start. Their improved play carried over into this season and they'll make the playoffs. I don't see why the Habs can't emulate it next season, especially if Markov plays.

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Old
02-10-2012, 12:35 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The same smart GM who signed an injured, aging player to 3 years to only play two of them? Then he had to pick up Campoli and pay him almost $2M and then had to get Kaberle for another $4M+ for the next 2 years. But it was the doctor's fault!!!!. Signing Markov was a risky move and Gauthier lost. Just like trading for Gomez was a risky move and Gainey lost.

Campoli, Gill, Spacek. All 3 are soft. Spacek is decent defensively, Gill is good PKer and Campoli couldn't get a deal until the end of the summer. This is your excuse for the team being crapola? If I'm Molson and Gauthier uses this excuse, I fire him on the spot.

The injuries excuse. Fans have gotten so used to falling back on injuries and Markov. It's pathetic.

Even Gauthier himself said injuries are not an excuse. Our best players have been healthy (Patches, Pleks, PK, Gorges, Price, Cole)..but you seriously have the audacity to bring up Campoli and Spacek? Might as well bring up the Gomez injury too. LOL
Why do you choose to be so one-sided and ignore facts that aren't consistent with your diatribe? Gauthier wisely chose not to offer contracts to Wisniewski and Hamrlik, who have done little wiith thir new teams to make him look bad. He signed Gorges, who, like Markov, was badly injured, and that worked out well. The Gomez injury may not have led to losses but can you say the same about Gionta's? In what way did the Kaberle trade make the Habs worse? Do you think the Habs should have kept Cammalleri and his inflated contract? Or Pouliot instead of signing Cole? Or not bringing over Emelin and Diaz? Or not giving Pacioretty, Desharnais, and Leblanc an opportunity? Are you also unhappy about having Eller?

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Old
02-10-2012, 07:40 AM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Aaah...

The voice of reason is so refreshing around here.
I have others...

Seidenberg by Phillie and Carolina. Boychuk by Colorado(who had to trade Stewart for help on defense). Leino by Detroit. Leopold by Calgary. J.Jokinen by Dallas and TB. Glencross by Edmonton Anaheim and Columbus. Kiprusoff by San Jose. Quincey by Detroit. Giguere by Calgary and Carolina. Vermette by Ottawa. Sharp by Phillie. Leddy by Minnesota. Nystrom by Minnesota. etc

Kaberle by Carolina

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Old
02-10-2012, 07:43 AM
  #469
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The same smart GM who signed an injured, aging player to 3 years to only play two of them? Then he had to pick up Campoli and pay him almost $2M and then had to get Kaberle for another $4M+ for the next 2 years. But it was the doctor's fault!!!!. Signing Markov was a risky move and Gauthier lost. Just like trading for Gomez was a risky move and Gainey lost.

Campoli, Gill, Spacek. All 3 are soft. Spacek is decent defensively, Gill is good PKer and Campoli couldn't get a deal until the end of the summer. This is your excuse for the team being crapola? If I'm Molson and Gauthier uses this excuse, I fire him on the spot.

The injuries excuse. Fans have gotten so used to falling back on injuries and Markov. It's pathetic.

Even Gauthier himself said injuries are not an excuse. Our best players have been healthy (Patches, Pleks, PK, Gorges, Price, Cole)..but you seriously have the audacity to bring up Campoli and Spacek? Might as well bring up the Gomez injury too. LOL
Of course there was risk involved. But this is hockey, do you not think Pittsburgh took a risk signing Crosby for 5 or 6 years at 8+ mil. Markov isn't the only injury risk in the NHL, but at least he is a guy who makes an impact on the whole team. LA went and signed Simon Freaking Gagne for 2 years, you should go bug the heck out of their fans and criticise their GM or Holmgren in Phillie about Pronger.

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Old
02-10-2012, 09:29 AM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
According to the made-up lore, Gauthier was behind these decisions as Gainey right-hand man.
PG is a monster.
he managed to control Gainey and the organisation for many years


Gainey was the GM and he made the decisions. PG was assistant but the decision was made by Gainey himself

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Old
02-10-2012, 09:55 AM
  #471
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I don't want to get into this again , but just to dispel many comments in this thread.
Markov should have been ready for October but injury rehabilitation is rarely a black/white scenario.
PG did what any smart GM would do lock up your number 1 D to a medium sized contract
considering his injury history and age. I'm sure most of you criticizing the move
would be up in arms if Markov was signed by let's say Detroit for 2 years/12M and he made a fine recovery (as originally expected).
Financially speaking , insurance is covering most of the current salary , so no it's not
money wasted , as in if he doesn't play we have cap relief , if he does play we instantly become a much better team. The only way we have a chance of making the playoffs this season is if we string some wins together and Markov rejoins the team to assist with the final push (with Markov I believe we can go .700 for the rest of the season with momentum/luck).

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Old
02-10-2012, 10:05 AM
  #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK46Awesome View Post
You don't fire doctors for unusual circumstances
within a prognosis , setbacks happen all the
time these aren't machines we are talking about.
Doctors in Pittsburgh didn't get fired for
missing sids spinal cord injury.
Habs have lost little to nothing
financially it's called insurance....
Stop posting these little spurts, pretending nobody understands the basics. The loss of markov has cost the team a small fortune in many areas.

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Old
02-10-2012, 10:46 AM
  #473
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Stop posting these little spurts, pretending nobody understands the basics. The loss of markov has cost the team a small fortune in many areas.
So we blame players for their injuries now? Wow you are cynical...
The only reason I'm educating people on the obvious is that some clearly don't get it
based on simplistic reasoning and faulty logic.
Would Philly say that Pronger's injury cost them a chance at a cup or wish him
a full recovery?
How about Pittsburgh with Crosby , Boston with Savard , Devils waited for Parise
to come back , Mike Green has also had a couple injury ridden seasons.

My point being teams don't give up on injured talent , unless there is no doubt
that they will not return to form. How many statistics do I have to pullout to prove my point? Is is it our high winning percentage with him in the line-up? His constant production season after season , his ability to outsmart wingers when defending on the rush or the instant effect that he has on D playing a better game? (Komisarek/Souray/Streit....).

Instead of bashing posters with ridiculous responses how about you provide some
constructive criticism to prove your point of view rather then obvious resentment
when no other teams fanbase treat their injured stars this way...

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Old
02-10-2012, 10:49 AM
  #474
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You'd think the Malkin example would get people's attention...blew out his knee(ACL AND MCL) last February and is now the best player in the NHL.

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Old
02-10-2012, 09:34 PM
  #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK46Awesome View Post
So we blame players for their injuries now? Wow you are cynical...
The only reason I'm educating people on the obvious is that some clearly don't get it
based on simplistic reasoning and faulty logic.
Would Philly say that Pronger's injury cost them a chance at a cup or wish him
a full recovery?
How about Pittsburgh with Crosby , Boston with Savard , Devils waited for Parise
to come back , Mike Green has also had a couple injury ridden seasons.

My point being teams don't give up on injured talent , unless there is no doubt
that they will not return to form. How many statistics do I have to pullout to prove my point? Is is it our high winning percentage with him in the line-up? His constant production season after season , his ability to outsmart wingers when defending on the rush or the instant effect that he has on D playing a better game? (Komisarek/Souray/Streit....).

Instead of bashing posters with ridiculous responses how about you provide some
constructive criticism to prove your point of view rather then obvious resentment
when no other teams fanbase treat their injured stars this way...
This should be copied, pasted and repeated for every negative comment in this thread!!!

Honestly, I come in here for the hope of some injury updates, not this incessant whiny bull crap.

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