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Unofficial Trade Rumor/Proposal Thread Part XIV (Evaluation: We need NHL players)

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01-26-2012, 12:55 PM
  #926
Reimer
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
So is it worth the risk to make that deal today?
Are you talking one that involves our 1st?

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01-26-2012, 12:58 PM
  #927
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I would try to make a deal for Subban but not move our core with exception of Magnum. I don't evan want to trade him but Subban is a special player (on ice anyway).

Magnum and Omark for Subban, that's it, maybe a 3rd on top.

Sign Hemsky, he is legit top 6 player. We need more legit top 6, can't keep selling our better players that are young.

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01-26-2012, 01:26 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
The 1st isn't untouchable, it's just a matter of it being doubtful that anyone would offer fair value for it.

I'd trade it yesterday for a signed Shea Weber. That's not going to happen, but the pick shouldn't be considered "untouchable".
Whenever I say an asset is untouchable I expect it is understood that means for any reasonably conceivable offer, because nothing is truly untouchable. Sure I'd move it for a signed Weber too. Or a healed Crosby. Or Stamkos/Malkin. But none of those moves are reasonable to consider.

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Looking at Nittymaki`s number`s, I`m not surprised. Very below average.
He's better than anyone Tampa or Columbus has now, imo.

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01-26-2012, 01:33 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
The 1st isn't untouchable, it's just a matter of it being doubtful that anyone would offer fair value for it.

I'd trade it yesterday for a signed Shea Weber. That's not going to happen, but the pick shouldn't be considered "untouchable".
If Weber is traded I really want to hear from posters like this. I'm telling ya'll right now, you're in for a big surprise when you see Nashville get much less for him then what you are predicting.

Let's say for the sake of argument the Oilers trade Hemsky for a mid 1st rounder. That, plus say... MPS, and maybe a Gagner should be enough. Maybe you have to add in another pick or prospect, maybe someone like Pitlick. That's it. I want to see if the Preds get more than that from another team. I'm calling it now... they won't. They might get better NHL talent than I'm predicting, but I doubt they get a lottery pick.


Last edited by Asher: 01-26-2012 at 01:40 PM.
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01-26-2012, 01:45 PM
  #930
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Here is my take on the Hemsky situation.

I think where the problem lies is Edmonton views Hemsky as a potential long-term piece and other teams do not. Edmonton is looking for a high return to make it worth dealing him. If they do not get what they want, is it worth dealing him as opposed to re-signing him? In the last several years there have been reports that Hemsky likes Edmonton and just recently Dreger mentioned that both sides have talked about the possibility of an extension, so don't rule that out.

Now for teams potentially wanting Hemsky. They do not view him as surefire long-term asset. They view him as a piece for the last bit of the season and playoffs and then go from there type of thing. They could potentially re-sign him and retain him for multiple years but theres too many question marks right now for them to be sure of that. Will he stay healthy? Will he fit with the team and perform? How much money and years will he want?

Ultimately if the Oilers don't get a deal to make it worth trading him for, I would be very happy if the Oilers kept him and re-signed him. They do not have great depth on RW and secondary scoring in general, so keeping him would be smart if they are just offered some b-level assets.

*If he makes is 100% clear he will not re-sign in Edmonton, you have to deal him for the best offer out there, but I'm not sure this will be the case.

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01-26-2012, 01:56 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by tv14 View Post
Here is my take on the Hemsky situation.

I think where the problem lies is Edmonton views Hemsky as a potential long-term piece and other teams do not. Edmonton is looking for a high return to make it worth dealing him. If they do not get what they want, is it worth dealing him as opposed to re-signing him? In the last several years there have been reports that Hemsky likes Edmonton and just recently Dreger mentioned that both sides have talked about the possibility of an extension, so don't rule that out.

Now for teams potentially wanting Hemsky. They do not view him as surefire long-term asset. They view him as a piece for the last bit of the season and playoffs and then go from there type of thing. They could potentially re-sign him and retain him for multiple years but theres too many question marks right now for them to be sure of that. Will he stay healthy? Will he fit with the team and perform? How much money and years will he want?

Ultimately if the Oilers don't get a deal to make it worth trading him for, I would be very happy if the Oilers kept him and re-signed him. They do not have great depth on RW and secondary scoring in general, so keeping him would be smart if they are just offered some b-level assets.

*If he makes is 100% clear he will not re-sign in Edmonton, you have to deal him for the best offer out there, but I'm not sure this will be the case.
Our problem is we have a guy like Horcoff making 5.5M per season. That means all other players have an inflated sense of their value, and rightly so.

I actually think it's the best decision to keep Hemsky, show that this isn't just a year in and year out fire sale and that the OILERS WANT him to be a piece of the puzzle moving forward. Maybe they could get a deal done with him for 5.5M per season and three years, front loaded with 7M in year one.

It is clear the Oilers have 3 legit top 6 forwards right now (and a less than 100% Hemsky, in terms of performance and perhaps health). We need defense, and we need top 6 forwards. Smyth and Horcoff are not at that level any longer. Hemsky is (or based on age can be).

I'd rather keep him and try to work on a deal in May-June than deal him for a late first round draft pick and middling prospect (which we have plenty of).

THE FIRE SALE NEEDS TO END. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.

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01-26-2012, 01:59 PM
  #932
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But we also need to remember well be making some moves prior to deadline. If we trade barker and hemsky, and whitney is still hurt are we that good a team??
The teams around us in the standings will likely be sellers too though.

UFAs/potentially available players:

Columbus - Carter (apparently), Pahlsson, Huselius, Prospal
Anaheim - Koivu, Selanne, Blake, Hagman, Ryan (doubtful)
Carolina - Ruutu, Gleason, Allen, Spacek
Buffalo - Boyes, Hecht, Gaustad, Stafford
Islanders - Rolston, Nielsen, Eaton, Jurinca
*Tampa - Moore, Kubina, Clark
*Montreal - Moen, Kostitsyn, Gill, Subban()

Losing Hemsky and Sutton probably hurts us more than some of the above teams losing a couple guys from those lists. Carter, Subban, and Ryan may be bigger loses for their teams, but you'd have to think those players would bring back more helpful pieces too.

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01-26-2012, 02:10 PM
  #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Are you talking one that involves our 1st?
Ours

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01-26-2012, 02:54 PM
  #934
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Listening to Spector on 1260, he would give up our 1st and Hemmer for Ellis!? Gtfoutta here!! Trading away that much for a 5'10 defenseman? Just NO. I think we need a 6'2-5" 25m/night defenseman more than anything. Not some 22y/o pp specialist. IMHO

If we're talking our 1st, I wanna see sights set for Weber or Subban at very least. If you wanna get Ellis, remove our 1st from the discussion.


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01-26-2012, 02:58 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by Hang10 View Post
Listening to Spector on 1260, he would give up our 1st and Hemmer for Ellis!? Gtfoutta here!! Trading away that much for a 5'10 defenseman? Just NO. I think we need a 6'2-5" 25m/night defenseman more than anything. Not some 22y/o pp specialist. IMHO
i cant believe this at all, he probably had the 1st on their side.

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01-26-2012, 02:58 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Hang10 View Post
Listening to Spector on 1260, he would give up our 1st and Hemmer for Ellis!? Gtfoutta here!! Trading away that much for a 5'10 defenseman? Just NO. I think we need a 6'2-5" 25m/night defenseman more than anything. Not some 22y/o pp specialist. IMHO
First and Hemsky for Ellis? Did he really say that?

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01-26-2012, 03:02 PM
  #937
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First and Hemsky for Ellis? Did he really say that?
Yes he did. First he said, our 1st for Ellis. But we'd probably have to offer more to get him, so toss in Hemsky.

/facepalm

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01-26-2012, 03:03 PM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Our problem is we have a guy like Horcoff making 5.5M per season. That means all other players have an inflated sense of their value, and rightly so.

I actually think it's the best decision to keep Hemsky, show that this isn't just a year in and year out fire sale and that the OILERS WANT him to be a piece of the puzzle moving forward. Maybe they could get a deal done with him for 5.5M per season and three years, front loaded with 7M in year one.

It is clear the Oilers have 3 legit top 6 forwards right now (and a less than 100% Hemsky, in terms of performance and perhaps health). We need defense, and we need top 6 forwards. Smyth and Horcoff are not at that level any longer. Hemsky is (or based on age can be).

I'd rather keep him and try to work on a deal in May-June than deal him for a late first round draft pick and middling prospect (which we have plenty of).

THE FIRE SALE NEEDS TO END. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.
While I agree that we need more top 6 forwards, and dealing Hemsky only means that we have to get another top 6 forward, do we really want Hemsky on the team long term? His injury history means that he can never be counted on to be there for the full season, and if we ever make it, the playoffs. Wouldn`t it be better to get what we can for him and look for a different top 6 forward option that doesn`t have such a terrible injury history? This is my choice. I agree that the return isn`t going to be great or fill an immediate need, but it is something that could be used to find a different top 6 forward option.

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01-26-2012, 03:07 PM
  #939
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i cant believe this at all, he probably had the 1st on their side.
No kidding. That`s insane.

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01-26-2012, 03:08 PM
  #940
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I have a hard time believing Spector offered up that deal, he usually keeps his takes fairly moderate. Either way, I wouldn't trade our 1st for anything that is not a guarantee coming back (ie. proven defenseman or star like Suter, not the potential of a Subban type).

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01-26-2012, 03:38 PM
  #941
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lmao if that is actually remotely truthful to what he said.

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01-26-2012, 03:40 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Ours
Absolutely, no way in hell I trade our draft pick today or at the draft for PK.

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01-26-2012, 03:41 PM
  #943
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I **** you guys not. To be fair, he seemed more concerned about skiing in jasper than talking oilers, but I thought his trade idea was rather extreme for a 5'10" shrimp.

I don't even think Suter is that good, he's probably make our team a helluva lot better, but if I had my choice, I'd be targetting Weber before Suter.

Any trade for those 2 guys will likely happen after Nashville gets knocked out of playoffs tho.

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01-26-2012, 03:45 PM
  #944
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Absolutely, no way in hell I trade our draft pick today or at the draft for PK.
What if Edmonton is 2, and Montreal is 11, and we flip 1sts and flip PK for Petry?

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01-26-2012, 03:46 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Hang10 View Post
Listening to Spector on 1260, he would give up our 1st and Hemmer for Ellis!? Gtfoutta here!! Trading away that much for a 5'10 defenseman? Just NO. I think we need a 6'2-5" 25m/night defenseman more than anything. Not some 22y/o pp specialist. IMHO

If we're talking our 1st, I wanna see sights set for Weber or Subban at very least. If you wanna get Ellis, remove our 1st from the discussion.
Wow. He thinks Ellis is worth Hemsky + an RNH/Hall level player. I have no other words than wow. I like Ellis and all, but wow.

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01-26-2012, 03:47 PM
  #946
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What if Edmonton is 2, and Montreal is 11, and we flip 1sts and flip PK for Petry?
I've said all along I'd be willing to flip our 1st with another team in exchange for a proven talent. In terms of that deal I'd probably do it in the end but push to swap Petry with someone else.

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01-26-2012, 03:52 PM
  #947
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So per Bobby Mac, Morrow might be available come TDD.

Not saying we should be interested (though if he played RW I might be, his leadership would be welcome, as well as his grit), but just putting it out.

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01-26-2012, 03:57 PM
  #948
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Have to agree..........!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hang10 View Post
Listening to Spector on 1260, he would give up our 1st and Hemmer for Ellis!? Gtfoutta here!! Trading away that much for a 5'10 defenseman? Just NO. I think we need a 6'2-5" 25m/night defenseman more than anything. Not some 22y/o pp specialist. IMHO

If we're talking our 1st, I wanna see sights set for Weber or Subban at very least. If you wanna get Ellis, remove our 1st from the discussion.
Have to agree with the above, no way you trade that much for a 5' 10" defenseman who has played 12 games in the NHL..........Spector doesn't know what he is talking about..........I bet you he has not even seen Ellis play!

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01-26-2012, 03:58 PM
  #949
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So per Bobby Mac, Morrow might be available come TDD.

Not saying we should be interested (though if he played RW I might be, his leadership would be welcome, as well as his grit), but just putting it out.
If he's available, he's likely going to to be going to a contending team looking to shore up toughness and secondary scoring on the wings. I expect Pittsburgh would take a look at him. Those teams have some history with big deals(Neal for Goligoski).

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01-26-2012, 04:02 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by Hang10 View Post
Listening to Spector on 1260, he would give up our 1st and Hemmer for Ellis!? Gtfoutta here!! Trading away that much for a 5'10 defenseman? Just NO. I think we need a 6'2-5" 25m/night defenseman more than anything. Not some 22y/o pp specialist. IMHO

If we're talking our 1st, I wanna see sights set for Weber or Subban at very least. If you wanna get Ellis, remove our 1st from the discussion.
This is why sports commentators are not really any more knowledgeable than the average fan when it comes to this type of thing. They are just as out of touch and deluded as most of us are.

Stauffer last week said he would not trade Horcoff to Montreal for Gomez and their 1st round pick.

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