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Old
01-20-2012, 02:26 PM
  #351
Evil Ted
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and huh, considering this thread is about tanking and rebuilding, how does trading our 1st (should be a good pick) makes any sense ?
Worked for the Leafs didn't it? at least to sell jerseys which is what Molson could be more interested.

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Old
01-20-2012, 02:34 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
in 2015/17, they will be 35+... you dont "build around" such players...
we aren't looking at a 5 year rebuild here. We have way too many important pieces in place for that to be the case. The only way we are looking at a 5 year rebuild is when we start trading guys like Price and Subban.

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01-20-2012, 02:39 PM
  #353
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Worked for the Leafs didn't it? at least to sell jerseys which is what Molson could be more interested.
Worked for the Leafs if the goal was to become a long term playoff also-ran - basically the offense-first version of what the Habs have been.

Kessel is a great player, but if given the choice between him and Seguin + Hamilton...I wouldn't have to think twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Problem with this is, LOTS of people here seems to think we'll get Grigorenko at the draft (they're daydreaming but hey, that's their prerogative)...

and huh, considering this thread is about tanking and rebuilding, how does trading our 1st (should be a good pick) makes any sense ?
Grigorenko aside, I'd still rather have Plekanec AND someone like Galchenyuk or Forsberg going forward than Getzlaf or whatever other mythical big C has replaced Vinny as the one guy who will magically make everything good.

Plekanec and what is most likely going to be a pick between 4 and 10 isn't going to get you Malkin or Toews.

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Old
01-20-2012, 03:07 PM
  #354
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If they are doing it correctly, we are looking at a 2-3 years plan

Look at Ottawa for goodness sake. How come they can quickly turn it around like that ?

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01-20-2012, 03:25 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Worked for the Leafs if the goal was to become a long term playoff also-ran - basically the offense-first version of what the Habs have been.

Kessel is a great player, but if given the choice between him and Seguin + Hamilton...I wouldn't have to think twice.



Grigorenko aside, I'd still rather have Plekanec AND someone like Galchenyuk or Forsberg going forward than Getzlaf or whatever other mythical big C has replaced Vinny as the one guy who will magically make everything good.

Plekanec and what is most likely going to be a pick between 4 and 10 isn't going to get you Malkin or Toews
.
no it wont get you malkin or toews, but are we sure we're even going to pick between 4 to 10? The habs have a bad tendency to either make the playoffs 6 to 8, or miss them at 9-10th...

so pleky plus a pick past 10th wont help more than, getting a getzlaf cause i dont think a pick lower than 10 will be a getzlaf or ready to play right away

its clear the team is not willing to rebuilt slowly and properly so unless theres a crosby, malkin, stamkos type player in the draft and we tank to get him, not point in hanging on to the 1st if it can be packaged for a proven #1 c

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Old
01-20-2012, 03:31 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post
no it wont get you malkin or toews, but are we sure we're even going to pick between 4 to 10? The habs have a bad tendency to either make the playoffs 6 to 8, or miss them at 9-10th...

so pleky plus a pick past 10th wont help more than, getting a getzlaf cause i dont think a pick lower than 10 will be a getzlaf or ready to play right away

its clear the team is not willing to rebuilt slowly and properly so unless theres a crosby, malkin, stamkos type player in the draft and we tank to get him, not point in hanging on to the 1st if it can be packaged for a proven #1 c
At this point I just don't see the Habs finishing with a good record even if they continue to try to make the playoffs - too many teams are in the race in the East, at this point the difference between finishing in the playoff bubble and in the lotto is basically a crapshoot.

It's a little like the Kessel trade. Leafs assumed they'd be able to step up quicker than they have, and while right now everyone is happy with that, I'd take Seguin over Kessel, and that's before you include Hamilton.

I don't want to overrate draft picks but this strikes me as an ultimate "blow up in your face" move, especially as Getzlaf is soon to be a FA and will be looking either to win now or get paid.

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Old
01-20-2012, 03:46 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by ReneBourque27 View Post
If they are doing it correctly, we are looking at a 2-3 years plan

Look at Ottawa for goodness sake. How come they can quickly turn it around like that ?
They had Spezza (and Alfredsson) to work with.

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Old
01-20-2012, 03:55 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
At this point I just don't see the Habs finishing with a good record even if they continue to try to make the playoffs - too many teams are in the race in the East, at this point the difference between finishing in the playoff bubble and in the lotto is basically a crapshoot.

It's a little like the Kessel trade. Leafs assumed they'd be able to step up quicker than they have, and while right now everyone is happy with that, I'd take Seguin over Kessel, and that's before you include Hamilton.

I don't want to overrate draft picks but this strikes me as an ultimate "blow up in your face" move, especially as Getzlaf is soon to be a FA and will be looking either to win now or get paid.

i used getzlaf as an example not necessarily the target

but the issue is there is no seguin in this years draft

if PG does this properly and trades away the gills, the campolis and just lets the youth play and we fall to the lottery it's ok but we wont, for some odd reason these morons (pg and molson) think we can make the playoffs...i'm convinced they are convinced

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Old
01-20-2012, 05:54 PM
  #359
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PG and Molson's job - even more than building a winning team - is to sell hope. As long as we the fans have hope, we'll continue to gobble up the product with anticipation. Hope can be based on real potential, but it can also be fake hope made from nothing more than cheap breadcrumbs, like coaching changes and lateral roster changes that exchange a dollar for four four quarters.

Or fake hope like Molson telling the fans we're still in the playoff hunt. Yes, it's bullshiitt, but what would you expect this owner of a business to say about his product?

I believe Geoff Molson sincerely wants to build a winner and is willing to spend money to succeed. We'll see examples of intelligent strategic moves in the next few months that will improve our team and, most important, give us loyal fans some hope. At least one UFA, at least one more big trade, and possibly one high draft pick.

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Old
01-20-2012, 09:24 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Worked for the Leafs if the goal was to become a long term playoff also-ran - basically the offense-first version of what the Habs have been.

Kessel is a great player, but if given the choice between him and Seguin + Hamilton...I wouldn't have to think twice.



Grigorenko aside, I'd still rather have Plekanec AND someone like Galchenyuk or Forsberg going forward than Getzlaf or whatever other mythical big C has replaced Vinny as the one guy who will magically make everything good.

Plekanec and what is most likely going to be a pick between 4 and 10 isn't going to get you Malkin or Toews.
A top center is obviously what where missing..as everybody has mentioned...If we can't move up the draft to get Grigorenko than we have to make a trade...Getzlaf & Parisse would be good options but I don't think we will be able to put together the right package without giving up the farm....what management should really consider is going after Vinny...he supposely is available and because of his salary the package wouldn't have to be to steep...

To Montreal:
Vinny

To Tampa:

One of centers DD,Pleks or Gomez + dmen + prospect

Vinny would change the whole dynamics of our offence......than they can still draft the top center with their top pick and he can develop slowly to take Vinny spot a few years from now.

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:18 PM
  #361
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Vinny hasn't been good since they won the cup.

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:23 PM
  #362
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Vinny hasn't been good since they won the cup.
Rocket Richard?

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:25 PM
  #363
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Rocket Richard?
Jean Beliveau. Sign him out of retirement.

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:30 PM
  #364
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Je suis tres content in our tanking plan. Everything is going very well

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:35 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by the goalie mask View Post
a top center is obviously what where missing..as everybody has mentioned...if we can't move up the draft to get grigorenko than we have to make a trade...getzlaf & parisse would be good options but i don't think we will be able to put together the right package without giving up the farm....what management should really consider is going after vinny...he supposely is available and because of his salary the package wouldn't have to be to steep...

To montreal:
Vinny

to tampa:

One of centers dd,pleks or gomez + dmen + prospect

vinny would change the whole dynamics of our offence......than they can still draft the top center with their top pick and he can develop slowly to take vinny spot a few years from now.
do not want the contract.

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Old
01-21-2012, 12:26 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post
no it wont get you malkin or toews, but are we sure we're even going to pick between 4 to 10? The habs have a bad tendency to either make the playoffs 6 to 8, or miss them at 9-10th...

so pleky plus a pick past 10th wont help more than, getting a getzlaf cause i dont think a pick lower than 10 will be a getzlaf or ready to play right away

its clear the team is not willing to rebuilt slowly and properly so unless theres a crosby, malkin, stamkos type player in the draft and we tank to get him, not point in hanging on to the 1st if it can be packaged for a proven #1 c
not making the PO means that AT WORST you'll get the 14th pick... given the season we're having, do you REALLY worry we wont get at least a 10th overall pick ? come on now...

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01-21-2012, 02:03 AM
  #367
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Don't know if it was mentioned. But part of the current reality is that Scott Gomez has 1 goal in the last year. His last goal was on Feb 5th 2011. The one before that was on Jan 8th 2011. So basically, he's a 7+ mil$ a goal player... Dayum!

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Old
01-21-2012, 02:05 AM
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post
i used getzlaf as an example not necessarily the target

but the issue is there is no seguin in this years draft

if PG does this properly and trades away the gills, the campolis and just lets the youth play and we fall to the lottery it's ok but we wont, for some odd reason these morons (pg and molson) think we can make the playoffs...i'm convinced they are convinced
The problem with that is that a team that isn't ready to compete now shouldn't trade for a player that is currently in his prime since by the time you're ready to compete he will be out of his prime. I mean, most of those guys were naming around here, Getzlaf, Staal,...we can't just assume those guys are like Selanne. The reality is that those purely offensive fowards tend to peak in production at about 25 year old. And it might sound stupid but I don't like the fact that such a trade would mean the organisation isn't willing to devellop their players properly always favoring known commodities. Personally I think we are at a point where the organisation deserve to suck it up, look for a longterm vision and also realise how it's a shame that they are wasting such great drafting due to a complete lack of patience.

Also for the centers in the draft, Grigorenko and Galchenyuk both very much have as much upside as Seguin.

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Old
01-21-2012, 03:22 AM
  #369
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All we need is 2 years of mediocrity before this team gets back on the right track.. We already have some very good kids playing with the Habs and some very good prospects, especially on defense coming in the next few years.. Guys like Tinordi Beaulieu Ellis are high level prospects.. so add 2 elite fowards to the line-up from drafting and the train is back on the right track..

I think a young core of Price Subban Emelin Paccioretty Eller isnt bad at all, then add Leblanc, Tinordi Ellis Beaulieu and a top center + a top winger from drafting, it looks nice.. Getting rid of Cammalleri and Gomez's contracts will also give us more flexibility in the future, but this time, I hope our GM will take his time to get the right ones.. I hope they will also buy out Kaberle's last year of contract..

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Old
01-22-2012, 02:18 PM
  #370
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I am pissed off about this year but I'm really not nervous about our future, that if we can re-sign Price to a resonable salary.

I am confident with our young forwards: Eller, Desharnais, Leblanc, Pacioretty. They havent hit their prime yet. Supported with veterans such as Cole, Kostitsyn and Plekanec I believe we are in buisiness.

Next year I'm expecting the young guns to receive more duties and ice time, rightfully so. It's now a hard season of learning for them.

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Cole (A potential 70 goals line)
Kostitsyn - Eller - Gionta (A potential 60 goals line)
Bourque - Desharnais - Leblanc (A potential 45 goals line)
Moen - White - Blunden (Gritty line, big players who can check and play defence)
Gabriel Bourque as an extra

Markov - Gorges
Kaberle - Subban
Diaz - Emelin
Weber

This is a lineup I'm very confident with for next year. It has a nice mixture of skills and size. A lot of grit and experience. I love it. I just wish we still had Cammalleri for when playoff came around but much like when Kovalev/Koivu left it's a sacrifice to make the open the path for the younger players.

Go Habs.

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Old
01-22-2012, 05:26 PM
  #371
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Say whomever the habs draft doesn't make the team.

Note: Not 1st line, 2nd line, etc. Just lines together.

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole (all already signed and play well together.)
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta (Same, all signed, though not sure about chemistry)
____ -Gomez - ____
_____ - _____ - _____

Defense
Markov - Gorges
Kaberle - Weber
____ - _____

Goal
Budaj
______

I'd re-sign Emelin 2 years 1.3 mill.
Subban to a 2 year contract to see how he continues to develop.
Then either let Diaz go back to Switzerland, trade his rights, or trade Weber. Maybe they let both go (a combination of options previously listed)

Re-sign Price long-term, but not at 7 mill a year. If that's what he wants, then trade him and use the assets to acquire Miller? Schneider ?Bernier ?

At forward.

Re-sign Eller 2 years 1.2 mill per.
Re-sign White 1 year same amount.
Re-sign Blunden 1 year 600k 1 way.
Re-sign Moen 2 years 1.2 mill

This leaves 2 spots open.

I'd look at players like:
Paul Gaustad
Cody McLeod

Someone with size.

I put Subban at 3 mill and kept Diaz at 900k It leaves 2 spots (12th forward and 13th)

If we could get rid of Gomez...

We still have 8 mill left even with Gomez. We could be so much better without.

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Old
01-22-2012, 06:23 PM
  #372
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Chris Boucher wrote an interesting article on the anatomy of a winning team:

http://www.boucherscouting.com/

Aside from the fact that goaltending and D are essential components, scoring depth is key. Scoring depth being 10 plus players with at least 10 or more goals during the regular season. The Habs are not that far off in all departments.

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Old
01-22-2012, 11:45 PM
  #373
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If we do tank it only has to be for this year. We have a a decent team. It is all about making your team as good as possible and looking at the future. We don't neeed a long rebuild!!! Besides molson wouldn't accept that because of the $$$. We need tweaks. But we also need to get some draft picks for this year. We just need a GM that will be able to get us on the right track for next year.

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Old
01-23-2012, 12:49 AM
  #374
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it would be about god damn time...

- missed the PO last 5 seasons
- missed the PO 7 times in last 10 seasons
- will miss the PO again this season, for the 6th time in a row
Exactly. They've been tanking intentionally for 3 years now and it pisses me off. Reminds me of Pitts, and I hat Pitts for it too.

Oilers for obvious reasons was always a team I respected. Not any more.

Finally, I have a solution to this multiple tanking cheating team crap: No team should be allowed to draft top 3 2 years in a row. End of. You tank a second time? Too bad. No top three pick for you. Run your team better.

NHL draft system absolutely sucks, with the encouragement of tanking year after year.

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01-23-2012, 06:09 AM
  #375
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Exactly. They've been tanking intentionally for 3 years now and it pisses me off. Reminds me of Pitts, and I hat Pitts for it too.

Oilers for obvious reasons was always a team I respected. Not any more.

Finally, I have a solution to this multiple tanking cheating team crap: No team should be allowed to draft top 3 2 years in a row. End of. You tank a second time? Too bad. No top three pick for you. Run your team better.

NHL draft system absolutely sucks, with the encouragement of tanking year after year.
You're so out of it it's not funny. They are not tanking. They aren't good enough and continue to try and get better. There isn't a single team that starts the year in the NHL attempting to lose.

Tanking doesn't exist, period. Exaggerations and false claims like yours do though.

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