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Old
01-24-2012, 09:26 AM
  #426
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
In my opinion, Andrei Kostitsyn, Travis Moen, Mathieu Darche, Chris Campoli, Hal Gill are all more than likely to be traded.

I can see Montreal trading Kostitsyn or Moen + Gill to a playoff team for an "A" prospect and 1st round draft pick IN 2012

Build around:

Pacioretty - Plekanec - Cole
Kristo - Eller - Gionta
XXXXX - Leblanc - Gallagher
XXXXX - White - XXXXX

Markov - Emelin
Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Beaullieu

Price

Trade or buy out Kaberle and Gomez a.s.a.p.

Draft either Galchenyuk or Gaunce and another big winger with our second 1st round draft pick, maybe Stefan Matteau or Tomas Hertl.

Future:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk/Gaunce - Gallagher
Matteau/Hertl - Eller - Kristo
XXXXX - Leblanc - XXXXX
XXXXX - White - XXXXX

Gorges - Subban
Tinordi - Beaulieu
XXXXX - XXXXX

Price
First off, I doubt we get a 1st AND a prospect for Moen and Gill.

Second, what happened to Bourque and why would Kristo jump right intop the top 6?

Third, no way Gomez should be bought out, it's trade or waivers. a buy out leaves a bigger cap hit than his salary for the next 2 years.

Fourth, the way Kaberle is going he can pretty easily be traded. I don't see that happening until Markov is 100% back(which appears to be a huge mystery right now).

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01-24-2012, 09:30 AM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I wouldn't mind Kovalchuk, but I can't see them trading him unless Parise is ready to re-sign.

My biggest fear is that we trade Subban for Kovalchuk. If we can get him without trading our core young guys I would be ok...like Bourque + Beaulieu + 2013 1st.
cash strapped or not, I see them demanding Subban as part of the return.

I personally would have doubts on making that move, but it all depends on what else they ask for, who we pick this year and if we can replace Subban's minutes with a UFA or from one of the prospects.

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01-24-2012, 09:42 AM
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The only upgrades at center worth PK and Plekanec would be Stamkos or Malkin and they are not getting traded.
I'd gladly take Getzlaf then. Imagine if we had Getzlaf, were able to draft Forsberg, and had Beaulieu and Tinordi next season (possibly in 2013 if they start in Hamilton next season)?

We solve every single problem we have with our lineup: a franchise center with size, another power forward and a defenseman with size / grit.

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01-24-2012, 10:02 AM
  #429
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I'd gladly take Getzlaf then. Imagine if we had Getzlaf, were able to draft Forsberg, and had Beaulieu and Tinordi next season (possibly in 2013 if they start in Hamilton next season)?

We solve every single problem we have with our lineup: a franchise center with size, another power forward and a defenseman with size / grit.
The BIG problem with trading for Getzlaf is that he is a UFA in July 2013. You can say you sign him to an extension once he arrives, but what if he absolutely WANTS to test the market, get back to California/play out west or wants a fortune(9 mil/year) then you really end up screwing the franchise.

I'm sure Staal could be an option, but at 8.5 mil/year cap hit I'm not even sure I'd trade Plekanec straight up let alone adding Subban.

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01-24-2012, 10:04 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
cash strapped or not, I see them demanding Subban as part of the return.

I personally would have doubts on making that move, but it all depends on what else they ask for, who we pick this year and if we can replace Subban's minutes with a UFA or from one of the prospects.
It would only be logical...he'll have a sub 4 mil cap hit the next 2 years probably(I expect him to re sign at 7mil/2 years).

Trading Subban for Kovalchuk would be a complete non starter for me.

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01-24-2012, 10:44 AM
  #431
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I think most posters agree on the majority of the players being opined to be moved out before or at the deadline or perhaps on draft day. I just wish that the real NHL worked similar to NHL12. I offered Spacek to the 'Ruins for Hamilton and they were overjoyed and thought they were ripping me off. I dunno, maybe I just love it every time the Teddy Bears get the raw end of the deal?

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01-24-2012, 11:00 AM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It would only be logical...he'll have a sub 4 mil cap hit the next 2 years probably(I expect him to re sign at 7mil/2 years).

Trading Subban for Kovalchuk would be a complete non starter for me.
I'm 99% positive if the offer was on the table most GM's would take Kovalchuk at his cap hit over Subban. That isn't to say Subban isn't a special player but so is Kovalchuk and he's locked down to a fair deal for a long time and is still young.

I don't have any doubt if we land Kovalchuk... Subban is gone. Best case scenario Plek+Beaulieu would be.

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01-24-2012, 11:02 AM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHab View Post
I think most posters agree on the majority of the players being opined to be moved out before or at the deadline or perhaps on draft day. I just wish that the real NHL worked similar to NHL12. I offered Spacek to the 'Ruins for Hamilton and they were overjoyed and thought they were ripping me off. I dunno, maybe I just love it every time the Teddy Bears get the raw end of the deal?
Did any of their players refuse to report after that?

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01-24-2012, 11:12 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I'm 99% positive if the offer was on the table most GM's would take Kovalchuk at his cap hit over Subban. That isn't to say Subban isn't a special player but so is Kovalchuk and he's locked down to a fair deal for a long time and is still young.

I don't have any doubt if we land Kovalchuk... Subban is gone. Best case scenario Plek+Beaulieu would be.
Can't see it. First, like 1/3 of teams owners wouldn't take his contract even if he was free. He takes up too much cash flow(for 10-12 teams it's more about money than cap hits). Second, star d-men are worth more than star wingers...Subban isn't there yet but he has the definite upside to be an all-star for 8-10 years. Plus he will cost a much smaller cap hit the next 2-4 years.

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01-24-2012, 11:13 AM
  #435
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Melnyk > Molson

I wish Molson would say this, while Iím not a big fan of Melnyk, at least he knows when itís time for the team to rebuild and isnít scared to say it.

ď(Dealing) would come with one caveat. Letís not lose focus of what our job is: Thatís to rebuild,Ē said Melnyk.

here's the the link:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/01/23/...n-rebuild-mode

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01-24-2012, 11:21 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
I wish Molson would say this, while Iím not a big fan of Melnyk, at least he knows when itís time for the team to rebuild and isnít scared to say it.

ď(Dealing) would come with one caveat. Letís not lose focus of what our job is: Thatís to rebuild,Ē said Melnyk.

here's the the link:

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/01/23/...n-rebuild-mode
Why would Molson have to say anything?

It depends on your definition of rebuilding. If you are talking about adding assets for the future and bouncing back next year, I'm all for it. If you want to gut the team, run it into the ground and hope your young players magically develop into stars and win you a cup then I'm 100% against.

The HF boards version of "tanking" is not realistic and counter productive. You think PK is putting up with media crap now imagine another 2-3 years of this.

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01-24-2012, 11:33 AM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why would Molson have to say anything?

It depends on your definition of rebuilding. If you are talking about adding assets for the future and bouncing back next year, I'm all for it. If you want to gut the team, run it into the ground and hope your young players magically develop into stars and win you a cup then I'm 100% against.

The HF boards version of "tanking" is not realistic and counter productive. You think PK is putting up with media crap now imagine another 2-3 years of this.
No one is talking about trading the whole team, but having your owner admit that the team is in difficulty and is in need a rebuild (re-tool, mini-rebuild, selling whatever you wanna call it), is a good thingÖwhen your team is actually in need of this, which we are.

It shows he's thinking about the future of the team.

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01-24-2012, 11:33 AM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Can't see it. First, like 1/3 of teams owners wouldn't take his contract even if he was free. He takes up too much cash flow(for 10-12 teams it's more about money than cap hits). Second, star d-men are worth more than star wingers...Subban isn't there yet but he has the definite upside to be an all-star for 8-10 years. Plus he will cost a much smaller cap hit the next 2-4 years.
First of all Subban is only a star D currently not a superstar, I know you didn't say otherwise but that leads me to my second point.

Kovalchuk isn't a star winger, he's a superstar winger, one of the top goal scorers in the NHL.

Second of all I disagree with your statement 1/3 of the teams wouldn't take him for free. If NJ was desperate and the only teams that wanted Kovy were teams they didn't want to trade him to and thus they were offering him up for free... those teams would find a way to fit him in. I disagree entirely with that statement, I'm actually positive most teams in the NHL would still take a run at him. The profit sharing in the NHL is good enough that any team would be stupid not to take Kovalchuk for free, let alone for a star D who isn't even a superstar.

Now I'm not saying PK doesn't have superstar potential, he does. Kovalchuk is already a proven superstar though. His cap hit makes the term infinitely easier to swallow.

So while star dmen are > star wingers, comparing one of the top scorers in the league for the past 5+ years to a guy who isn't a superstar and making it out to sound like they're in the same league is a bit disingenuous. Subban is a star with superstar potential, Kovalchuk is a superstar who hasn't been his best on a defensive team in NJ, but he's still a superstar.

Plus Kovalchuk already IS going to be an all star for 8-10 years. You realize Kovalchuk hasn't even turned 29 yet right? He's very much going to be an all star for years to come.

Also regarding the cap hit for 2-4 years I wouldn't be so certain, not saying you're wrong but that's a massive assumption considering RFA's are signing long term deals earlier and earlier these days. It's really just a flat out assumption with little to no legitimacy at all quite frankly. Not trying to say Subban = Doughty but come on, if Subban wants to sign long term one of two things will happen. His cap hit for 2-4 years won't be that good, or he'll get the long term deal. Neither involves Subban having a reasonable cap hit. Not saying it would be impossible, but I just don't see how you come to this assumption. There are a lot of question marks.

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01-24-2012, 01:00 PM
  #439
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kovalchuck with desharnais and cole on soft assignment = ****

im down with this

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01-24-2012, 01:49 PM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
No one is talking about trading the whole team, but having your owner admit that the team is in difficulty and is in need a rebuild (re-tool, mini-rebuild, selling whatever you wanna call it), is a good thingÖwhen your team is actually in need of this, which we are.

It shows he's thinking about the future of the team.
I still don't get why the owner needs to say anything. First of all he should never be commenting on anything hockey related other than to say we want to win the cup.

Second, you start talking about next year when the deadline approaches and you start trading veterans. Then it's your GM talking about it.

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01-24-2012, 02:03 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
First of all Subban is only a star D currently not a superstar, I know you didn't say otherwise but that leads me to my second point.

Kovalchuk isn't a star winger, he's a superstar winger, one of the top goal scorers in the NHL.

Second of all I disagree with your statement 1/3 of the teams wouldn't take him for free. If NJ was desperate and the only teams that wanted Kovy were teams they didn't want to trade him to and thus they were offering him up for free... those teams would find a way to fit him in. I disagree entirely with that statement, I'm actually positive most teams in the NHL would still take a run at him. The profit sharing in the NHL is good enough that any team would be stupid not to take Kovalchuk for free, let alone for a star D who isn't even a superstar.

Now I'm not saying PK doesn't have superstar potential, he does. Kovalchuk is already a proven superstar though. His cap hit makes the term infinitely easier to swallow.

So while star dmen are > star wingers, comparing one of the top scorers in the league for the past 5+ years to a guy who isn't a superstar and making it out to sound like they're in the same league is a bit disingenuous. Subban is a star with superstar potential, Kovalchuk is a superstar who hasn't been his best on a defensive team in NJ, but he's still a superstar.

Plus Kovalchuk already IS going to be an all star for 8-10 years. You realize Kovalchuk hasn't even turned 29 yet right? He's very much going to be an all star for years to come.

Also regarding the cap hit for 2-4 years I wouldn't be so certain, not saying you're wrong but that's a massive assumption considering RFA's are signing long term deals earlier and earlier these days. It's really just a flat out assumption with little to no legitimacy at all quite frankly. Not trying to say Subban = Doughty but come on, if Subban wants to sign long term one of two things will happen. His cap hit for 2-4 years won't be that good, or he'll get the long term deal. Neither involves Subban having a reasonable cap hit. Not saying it would be impossible, but I just don't see how you come to this assumption. There are a lot of question marks.
If a lot of small markets would take Kovalchuk's contract why were not of them making offers the summer of 2010 when he was a UFA?

a lot of those teams spend to the cap floor and don't want to spend 1/4 of their budget on 1 player.

To me a superstar is a guy who can not only carry a team but make others better like Lemieux Gretzky Jagr(in his prime) Crosby Malkin(at times). Kovalchuk has had monster years but he is a very individual player and has not always contributed to winning.

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01-24-2012, 02:05 PM
  #442
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Likely trades

Moen - Offer him 3M for 2 years. Should he refuse, trade him. Worth a 2nd for sure or a solid prospect.
Gill - 100% trade - Worth a 2nd or 3rd or maybe a decent prospect
Campoli - I honestly don't believe he's worth much... maybe a 6th?
Kaberle - Almost untradeable... I'd take a 5th, 6th or 7th and run.
Nokeleinen - 100% trade - 6th or 7th?
Gomez - accept anything just to get rid of the cap hit
AK46 - Offer him 13M over 3 years. Should he refuse, trade him. Worth a 2nd and a solid prospect.
Weber - keep him if you can get rid of Gill, Kaberle and Campoli. Otherwise, a 3rd?
Gionta - if he's healthy before the deadline and they are in full Rebuild, trade him for a second and a prospect.

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01-24-2012, 02:33 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
Likely trades

Moen - Offer him 3M for 2 years. Should he refuse, trade him. Worth a 2nd for sure or a solid prospect.
Gill - 100% trade - Worth a 2nd or 3rd or maybe a decent prospect
Campoli - I honestly don't believe he's worth much... maybe a 6th?
Kaberle - Almost untradeable... I'd take a 5th, 6th or 7th and run.
Nokeleinen - 100% trade - 6th or 7th?
Gomez - accept anything just to get rid of the cap hit
AK46 - Offer him 13M over 3 years. Should he refuse, trade him. Worth a 2nd and a solid prospect.
Weber - keep him if you can get rid of Gill, Kaberle and Campoli. Otherwise, a 3rd?
Gionta - if he's healthy before the deadline and they are in full Rebuild, trade him for a second and a prospect.
Campoli was worth a 2nd last year, his value wouldn't have dropped THAT much. Cripes Ponikarovsky got a 4th last week and he's playing like crap, plus defensemen are usually like gold at the deadline.

Worst case Campoli should be worth a 4th, best case a 2nd.

With Gomez I wouldn't accept anything, because I'm sure some teams would love to dump worse contracts like Komisarek, Campbell, Horcoff, Volchenkov, Dipietro etc

Gionta is OUT FOR THE YEAR(4 months), I think it's the 3rd time you include his name in potential trades.

I like AK but he isn't worth 4.25 mil cap hit at this point. Maybe 10 mil over 3 years not 13.

Trading Weber for a 3rd would be dumb, he is still young, has upside, a cheap contract, why not keep him?

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01-24-2012, 03:20 PM
  #444
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Check out this list and apparently Gauthier is showing interest in L.A.'s Jack Johnson (I wish!!!) imagine the future on D???

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/trade...p25/index.html

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01-24-2012, 03:47 PM
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Campoli was worth a 2nd last year, his value wouldn't have dropped THAT much. Cripes Ponikarovsky got a 4th last week and he's playing like crap, plus defensemen are usually like gold at the deadline.

Worst case Campoli should be worth a 4th, best case a 2nd.

With Gomez I wouldn't accept anything, because I'm sure some teams would love to dump worse contracts like Komisarek, Campbell, Horcoff, Volchenkov, Dipietro etc

Gionta is OUT FOR THE YEAR(4 months), I think it's the 3rd time you include his name in potential trades.

I like AK but he isn't worth 4.25 mil cap hit at this point. Maybe 10 mil over 3 years not 13.

Trading Weber for a 3rd would be dumb, he is still young, has upside, a cheap contract, why not keep him?
Campoli can't even crack our top 7. I don't he's a hot commodity for a top contender.

For Gomez, of course I didn't mean to take on a similarly bad contract. I'll be precise for you - any draft pick or prospect or bum with a "not too bad" contract.

About Gionta, sorry... you're more aware of my posts than I am!

About AK - you are out to lunch if you think he'll sign for 3.3M a year... that would be dumb.

About Weber, I like his offensive potential but I'm not sure if he will ever be an NHL regular because of his size and defensive difficulties. Sorry if it's dumb for you.

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01-24-2012, 04:01 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Check out this list and apparently Gauthier is showing interest in L.A.'s Jack Johnson (I wish!!!) imagine the future on D???

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/trade...p25/index.html
I don't see LA letting Johnson go for anything less than Subban plus a top prospect or our 2012 1st. He is signed for 7 years at just above 4 mil/year.

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01-24-2012, 05:20 PM
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
Likely trades

Moen - Offer him 3M for 2 years. Should he refuse, trade him. Worth a 2nd for sure or a solid prospect.
Gill - 100% trade - Worth a 2nd or 3rd or maybe a decent prospect
Campoli - I honestly don't believe he's worth much... maybe a 6th?
Kaberle - Almost untradeable... I'd take a 5th, 6th or 7th and run.
Nokeleinen - 100% trade - 6th or 7th?
Gomez - accept anything just to get rid of the cap hit
AK46 - Offer him 13M over 3 years. Should he refuse, trade him. Worth a 2nd and a solid prospect.
Weber - keep him if you can get rid of Gill, Kaberle and Campoli. Otherwise, a 3rd?
Gionta - if he's healthy before the deadline and they are in full Rebuild, trade him for a second and a prospect.
Id actually think of keeping Noki. Hes not really physical but his size is good, hes young and hes won almost 55% of his face-offs. With Blunden and White as wingers its a tough line.


Last edited by yianik: 01-24-2012 at 05:21 PM. Reason: forgot something
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01-24-2012, 05:35 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by gillyguzzler View Post
Campoli can't even crack our top 7. I don't he's a hot commodity for a top contender.

For Gomez, of course I didn't mean to take on a similarly bad contract. I'll be precise for you - any draft pick or prospect or bum with a "not too bad" contract.

About Gionta, sorry... you're more aware of my posts than I am!

About AK - you are out to lunch if you think he'll sign for 3.3M a year... that would be dumb.

About Weber, I like his offensive potential but I'm not sure if he will ever be an NHL regular because of his size and defensive difficulties. Sorry if it's dumb for you.


We have rotated 8 guys into 6 spots the last 6 weeks, not sure how you can say he "isn't in our top 7". His play was pretty shaky early on, though coming back from a leg injury, but he has been solid the last 2-3 weeks. They are trying to get the young guys playing time and not sitting the veterans too much. If you add Campoli as a #5, that's a pretty safe bet, like Chicago did last year. It's not like anybody is expecting a 1st and Kuznetsov in return.

For Gomez, I would prefer sendin him AHL or Europe over taking another contract unless it's an expiring(Rozival) or smaller one that can be sent to Hamilton.

For AK, no way do you sign him for much more than he makes right now to play mostly 3rd line minutes. if the cost is 4+ mil you trade him and find a filler in the summer until Kristo Bournival LeBlanc etc are ready.

If all we can get for Weber is a 3rd then you keep him, simple as that.

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01-24-2012, 07:34 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
We have rotated 8 guys into 6 spots the last 6 weeks, not sure how you can say he "isn't in our top 7". His play was pretty shaky early on, though coming back from a leg injury, but he has been solid the last 2-3 weeks. They are trying to get the young guys playing time and not sitting the veterans too much. If you add Campoli as a #5, that's a pretty safe bet, like Chicago did last year. It's not like anybody is expecting a 1st and Kuznetsov in return.

For Gomez, I would prefer sendin him AHL or Europe over taking another contract unless it's an expiring(Rozival) or smaller one that can be sent to Hamilton.

For AK, no way do you sign him for much more than he makes right now to play mostly 3rd line minutes. if the cost is 4+ mil you trade him and find a filler in the summer until Kristo Bournival LeBlanc etc are ready.

If all we can get for Weber is a 3rd then you keep him, simple as that.
I see Campoli netting us a 4th, maybe a 3rd if a team is desperate enough. Gill and Moen can net us a solid return.

Make AK an offer, test his comments about taking less than market value. Offer him up to 3.5M over 3yrs. He refuses, I am sure teams like Nashville, LA would be willing to pay a solid return for him.

If Weber is moved he's worth at least a 2nd. He has had steady upwards progression. His defensive play is improving as is his confidence on the offensive side. he will turn into a PP specialist capable of 3rd maybe 2nd pairing minutes

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01-24-2012, 07:44 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
I see Campoli netting us a 4th, maybe a 3rd if a team is desperate enough. Gill and Moen can net us a solid return.

Make AK an offer, test his comments about taking less than market value. Offer him up to 3.5M over 3yrs. He refuses, I am sure teams like Nashville, LA would be willing to pay a solid return for him.

If Weber is moved he's worth at least a 2nd. He has had steady upwards progression. His defensive play is improving as is his confidence on the offensive side. he will turn into a PP specialist capable of 3rd maybe 2nd pairing minutes
I'm hoping they make an offer to Moen because he deserves it after his time here. He's the only guy who's been willing to drop the gloves more than once in defence of his teammates, he works hard, kills penalties, and has played on every line. It looks good on the organization to reward a player who has worked hard for them, that is something that shows class. Now, if he wants too much money, that's a different story, but a 3 year deal worth 5.5 should be agreeable for both sides.

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