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Old
01-19-2012, 09:55 AM
  #1
Jame
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Things We Don't Talk About

- Tyler Myers development has been stagnant since his Calder season
- Thomas Vanek is lazy and soft
- Robyn Regehr was NOT what this team was missing

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Old
01-19-2012, 09:57 AM
  #2
Connor McDavid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
- Thomas Vanek is lazy and soft
We don't talk about this because it's stupid.

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Old
01-19-2012, 09:59 AM
  #3
puckish66
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Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
We don't talk about this because it's stupid.
The other two sound good though.

Where's the Tunnel of Death?

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:02 AM
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Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
We don't talk about this because it's stupid.
Really?

I think there is simply a tendency to not want to criticize scorers. If you watch the Sabres and don't think Vanek is lazy, and takes shifts off, and is completely un-involved in the game at times.... then you are not watching.

He's talented, he brings things no one else can, we need him.... but he's lazy, he lacks effort at times, he's soft in certain situations... it's not an opinion.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:05 AM
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puckish66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Really?

I think there is simply a tendency to not want to criticize scorers. If you watch the Sabres and don't think Vanek is lazy, and takes shifts off, and is completely un-involved in the game at times.... then you are not watching.

He's talented, he brings things no one else can, we need him.... but he's lazy, he lacks effort at times, he's soft in certain situations... it's not an opinion.
Ehhhh... I think it's more along the lines of him letting his frustration get the best of him. The offensive zone penalties and giveaways are born of that 90% of the time IMO.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
- Tyler Myers development has been stagnant since his Calder season
- Thomas Vanek is lazy and soft
- Robyn Regehr was NOT what this team was missing
These three players, along with Pominville and Ellis, probably deserve the least amount of criticism out of the entire roster for their play this year.

I seriously wonder if you really enjoy hockey, or just like to stir the pot.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:05 AM
  #7
Connor McDavid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Really?

I think there is simply a tendency to not want to criticize scorers. If you watch the Sabres and don't think Vanek is lazy, and takes shifts off, and is completely un-involved in the game at times.... then you are not watching.
Or you're straight up wrong. He's not lazy, he's just slow and has a deliberate stride. And he's no power forward, but he plays through contact on the boards/at the net.

Stupid mental mistakes =/= lazy

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Really?

I think there is simply a tendency to not want to criticize scorers. If you watch the Sabres and don't think Vanek is lazy, and takes shifts off, and is completely un-involved in the game at times.... then you are not watching.

He's talented, he brings things no one else can, we need him.... but he's lazy, he lacks effort at times, he's soft in certain situations... it's not an opinion.
I agree and said this a while back and people laughed are disagreed. Vanek is ultra talented but not the face of a franchise. People want someone lazy to be captain? Look at other captains around the league and certain players and those are the type of guys you build around.

In regards to the original post,

Myers has played well of recent but ya i would like to see him continue a steep development in his game.

Regehr was a big help and probably our most consistent defenseman but is not the type of player thats a make or break it. His physicality is welcomed although his skating speed is not goo enough for top line minutes. He is a great depth guy on a good team.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:15 AM
  #9
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
These three players, along with Pominville and Ellis, probably deserve the least amount of criticism out of the entire roster for their play this year.

I seriously wonder if you really enjoy hockey, or just like to stir the pot.
I completely agree. They deserved the LEAST.... not NONE.

Has Tyler Myers progressed at all since winning the Calder? In your opinion? Has progressed enough in 2 seasons? Has he met your expectation for growth since he won the Calder? Has he progressed like Shea Weber did?

Thomas Vanek has gotten a pass in terms of analyzing his entire game for FAR too long. He's a top line, yet deeply flawed winger, who has no where near a complete game....(He has 2 goals in the last 14 games)

Regehr didn't show up with that I thought we were getting. He's NOT a shut down defender. And he doesn't fit the system in Buffalo at all (the system sucks... but that's besides the point). And the thought that we were getting a character guy... well, that sure hasn't rubbed off at all either.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:17 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
I agree and said this a while back and people laughed are disagreed. Vanek is ultra talented but not the face of a franchise. People want someone lazy to be captain? Look at other captains around the league and certain players and those are the type of guys you build around.

In regards to the original post,

Myers has played well of recent but ya i would like to see him continue a steep development in his game.

Regehr was a big help and probably our most consistent defenseman but is not the type of player thats a make or break it. His physicality is welcomed although his skating speed is not goo enough for top line minutes. He is a great depth guy on a good team.
I wanted Vanek for Captain because I thought it would take his game to the next level (as it has with Pominville). Unfortunately, NOT being named captain has taken a negative affect on Vanek IMO. It was clear from the day the captaincy was announced that he was not happy.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:18 AM
  #11
Connor McDavid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post

Thomas Vanek has gotten a pass in terms of analyzing his entire game for FAR too long. He's a top line, yet deeply flawed winger, who has no where near a complete game....(He has 2 goals in the last 14 games)
Now this is something else entirely. Something I agree with, though I feel "nowhere near" is stretching it a bit.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:24 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I wanted Vanek for Captain because I thought it would take his game to the next level (as it has with Pominville). Unfortunately, NOT being named captain has taken a negative affect on Vanek IMO. It was clear from the day the captaincy was announced that he was not happy.
I agree with this, but I don't think it had a negative affect early in the season. Really, up to about three weeks ago he was playing the best hockey of his career.

He's been awful of late. I wonder if his body taking a rough ride all year long has anything to do with it. He's been rushing to the bench in pain once every couple of games it seems.

I'm a huge Vanek fan, but he needs to play better. One goal and two points in nine games? That's unacceptable. He looks defeated out there.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:26 AM
  #13
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Also, Regehr is not what this team needed in that he wasn't that missing piece we thought he'd be, yes. But to suggest we didn't need a player with his skill set on our back end?

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:26 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I completely agree. They deserved the LEAST.... not NONE.

Has Tyler Myers progressed at all since winning the Calder? In your opinion? Has progressed enough in 2 seasons? Has he met your expectation for growth since he won the Calder? Has he progressed like Shea Weber did?

Thomas Vanek has gotten a pass in terms of analyzing his entire game for FAR too long. He's a top line, yet deeply flawed winger, who has no where near a complete game....(He has 2 goals in the last 14 games)

Regehr didn't show up with that I thought we were getting. He's NOT a shut down defender. And he doesn't fit the system in Buffalo at all (the system sucks... but that's besides the point). And the thought that we were getting a character guy... well, that sure hasn't rubbed off at all either.
Tough to tell on Myers. Obviously sucked last year for a time, but turned it around nicely towards the back half. Rocky start this year, but he was turning it around before the injury, and he's been very good since he's been back. Has he progressed like Weber? No. Not many players do. Weber also had the luxury of half an AHL season which Myers didn't. (I know they couldn't with Myers at the time, but I still think it would have been to his benefit.)

Robyn Regehr is playing the same game he's played his entire career. You want flash, you're not going to get it. He plays solid, physical, defense. His problem has been the mis-mosh of defense partners that have played like crap. (And I don't blame the team being ******* on him. I'm not sure if you are either, but that's just wrong.)

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:28 AM
  #15
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Myers is 21 years old, a defenseman and a ****ing giant. If power forwards are expected to develop for a while, how long should we expect Myers to develop? I'm willing to give him a benefit of a doubt for a year or two. If he still shows no progress when he's in the 4th or 5th year of the contract, then I'll start to worry.

On Vanek, he looks lazy sometimes, I don't know if it's because of his skating or what. Can't complain about him though, it's not his fault the team is losing like this.

On Regehr, meh. He's been good, but overhyped by us. He was great in the beginning of the year, slowly tapering off though.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:28 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
Also, Regehr is not what this team needed in that he wasn't that missing piece we thought he'd be, yes. But to suggest we didn't need a player with his skill set on our back end?
Well, when you got Mike Weber to patrol the crease, who needs Regehr?

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:48 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
- Tyler Myers development has been stagnant since his Calder season
I'm worried about this. If Ruff has indeed lost the locker room, is Myers potential being wasted? Do we need a different coach for that reason alone? It's hard to analyze when the entire team is so terrible, but you're right, he hasn't improved much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
- Thomas Vanek is lazy and soft
Disagreed. He takes more hits to make plays than anyone else on the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
- Robyn Regehr was NOT what this team was missing
Agreed... kind of. It's clear the team needed a shakeup before adding a few pieces would make us very competitive. But Regehr has been one of the few players I've mostly enjoyed watching this season. We DO need his game.

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Old
01-19-2012, 11:02 AM
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There is some validity in everything Jame says. What has happened is that those players are no longer sure of their role--each has at times seemed lost. Vanek is a good passer who seldom gets the puck back once he passes off. He needs to be in position to be fed the puck as he lacks the foot speed despite his willingness to be in tough ares. Shots that hit the net with rebound possibilities to where he will be seem to come but rarely.

Regehr can only do what he can--he handles his man and plays the 2 on 1 well. He cannot move the puck out of his zone--not enough skill or speed which puts him in a hole when the puck is in the corner where he is. He does not get pushed around but he is not intimidating--no fears he will crush them.

Myers has been spotty--but he has all the tools to be great. His size and age mean he needs maturing. I think he has played periods of very good hockey lately despite the occasional lapse.

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Old
01-19-2012, 11:23 AM
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It was said many times that Vanek is the Austrian Dave Andreychuk.

If you look at the complaints about Andreychuk during his first tour with the Sabres, they are similiar to Vanek.

Just as their games are very similar.

I can see why Vanek can be viewed as lazy at times. He isn't a high effort guy like say Kaleta.

But soft? I could never call a guy that goes to the hard areas as frequently as Vanek does soft.

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Old
01-19-2012, 11:39 AM
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Myers misses Tallinder and his steady presence. He has struggled to find chemistry with any partner since and its impacted his development. Jame is spot on.

Regehr is good piece that's added when everything else is in place. Obviously that's not the situation here.

Vanek has been pretty beat up in recent weeks. If anything I think his battle is impressive all things considered. One bad thing he has been doing more of lately is cheating out of the zone on breakouts. Not sure I would call that lazy.

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Old
01-19-2012, 11:41 AM
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I'd say Vanek is prolly injured. Every year when he has a stretch like this, someone makes a thread, then we find out he has bone bruises in like eight different places, then he goes on a tear. I know he's missed time in a couple games over the past two weeks, and I'll be a little more worried if he's still this meh after the all star break.

Myers is on Ruff, IMO. We've seen an instinctive willingness to do things like hit in the open ice and drop the gloves (I think he's gone bare knuckles around five-six times without actually recording a fighting major) and I don't think Lindy has developed that side of his game. And then you've got the oscillating from playing shutdown minutes to playing with Sekera.

Sidenote, what is it with Ruff and actual talent? I'd say Vanek/Myers have the most raw talent out of the team and both have this overwhelming sense of being self developed.

Regehr was part of what we needed, but I don't think anyone expected every forward not named Vanek or Pominville to be at "black hole at both ends of the ice" status.

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Old
01-19-2012, 11:57 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I wanted Vanek for Captain because I thought it would take his game to the next level (as it has with Pominville). Unfortunately, NOT being named captain has taken a negative affect on Vanek IMO. It was clear from the day the captaincy was announced that he was not happy.
Which I think points to a much larger problem regarding Vanek. I get your point about the captaincy raising his game to the next level, but the fact that it looked like he was almost pouting when he didn't get it was kind of a red flag for me.

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Old
01-19-2012, 12:01 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I completely agree. They deserved the LEAST.... not NONE.

Has Tyler Myers progressed at all since winning the Calder? In your opinion? Has progressed enough in 2 seasons? Has he met your expectation for growth since he won the Calder? Has he progressed like Shea Weber did?

Thomas Vanek has gotten a pass in terms of analyzing his entire game for FAR too long. He's a top line, yet deeply flawed winger, who has no where near a complete game....(He has 2 goals in the last 14 games)

Regehr didn't show up with that I thought we were getting. He's NOT a shut down defender. And he doesn't fit the system in Buffalo at all (the system sucks... but that's besides the point). And the thought that we were getting a character guy... well, that sure hasn't rubbed off at all either.

It's a reasonable point on Myers. I'm not sure what Shea Weber was like when he was 21 but Myers certainly hasn't developed along a normal path but 1.) he was really, really good in his rookie year and 2.) through the end of last season into the playoffs he was at or near an elite level. I'm certainly concerned that he's regressed in two seasons but he bounced out of it last year, I'm confident he'll do it again. I am concerned that they've had trouble finding a good partner for him since Tallinder left. He's the type of talent where it shouldn't matter.

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Old
01-19-2012, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
I wanted Vanek for Captain because I thought it would take his game to the next level (as it has with Pominville). Unfortunately, NOT being named captain has taken a negative affect on Vanek IMO. It was clear from the day the captaincy was announced that he was not happy.
Your basis for this is what????

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01-19-2012, 12:09 PM
  #25
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The criticism of Vanek is unwarranted, in my opinion. He is one of two players who has done anything this season. If people want to trade him for more assets, that's fine, but let's not kick him on his way out the door.

Nobody is in his head regarding the captaincy. What we know is that Pommers got it, Ruff cracked a handshake joke when he gave Vanek an 'A', and then Vanek and Pommers went on a goal scoring tear without a talented center.

He's having a rough stretch right now, but I don't see a lack of effort from him. He consistently goes to the tough areas on the ice.

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