HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Intangible Toews heating up

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-19-2012, 10:48 AM
  #26
clydesdale line
Registered User
 
clydesdale line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,412
vCash: 500
My god is he criminally underrated on these boards.

clydesdale line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 10:49 AM
  #27
Moore Money
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,464
vCash: 500
Heating up? I thought he was fully heated a while ago.

Moore Money is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 10:52 AM
  #28
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,055
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clydesdale line View Post
My god is he criminally underrated on these boards.
Always has been.

Minister of Offence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 11:01 AM
  #29
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clydesdale line View Post
My god is he criminally underrated on these boards.
Its funny, he's raved about by other players, coaches, GM's, commentators, but on here....he's average.

Illinihockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 11:08 AM
  #30
Puckgenius*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: At the rink
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatSaveLuongo View Post
Amongst Malkin, Stamkos, Bergeron, Datysuk, Tavares, how is Toesw top 5?
Funny you dont even include datsyuk.

Id only take crosby. Malkin, dats over toews. Dats is borderline only cause of his age.

Yes id take toews over stamkos, h. Sedin amd tavares easily.

Stamkos, way too one dimensional for my liking. Hes no where near toews for his defensive game and never will be. Hes got a better shot but thats about it.

Sedin, is half the player without his brother. Plus i dont like him.

Tavares, what has he proved so far? Hes good but hes not on toews level right now. This could change in thr future if he can somehow get off the islanders.


Last edited by Puckgenius*: 01-19-2012 at 11:17 AM.
Puckgenius* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 11:16 AM
  #31
Auzzie19
Registered User
 
Auzzie19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gormley
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,526
vCash: 500
IMO, the only Center I would take before Toews is Datsyuk just because he is the offensive upside is better. The defensive game between the two are similar.

Auzzie19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 11:42 AM
  #32
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,514
vCash: 500
If I could choose a player to start my franchise with it would be Toews. His determination is unreal, we make jokes about it on HF, but the fact is he gets the job done. Everyone's excuse for him not being an elite player is "oh he doesn't produce like an elite player" now what flaws can you point at? I don't see anything with this guy, just an absolute beast.

Stop Winnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 12:21 PM
  #33
Chelios
Registered User
 
Chelios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
He is most definitely one of the top 5 centres in the league. It really shouldn't be an argument anymore. The only knock against him before was his offence. He is currently top 10 in scoring. He finished 12th in scoring last year. He is currently 2nd in the league in goals. His offence is, and has been for a significant length of time, elite. When you add to all that the fact that he is the top faceoff man in the league, a proven playoff performer, elite defensively and an undisputed leader; you have one of the best centres in the game.

Chelios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 12:23 PM
  #34
Hero
Raptors 13/14
 
Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,880
vCash: 50
<3 Dats

Toews after Dats.

Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 12:24 PM
  #35
zytz
lumberjack
 
zytz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,798
vCash: 500
I'd like to add that he's been scoring lately in spite of Kane, rather than because of.

zytz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 12:36 PM
  #36
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
I'd like to add that he's been scoring lately in spite of Kane, rather than because of.
And Sharp hasn't been on his line much the entire season.

Illinihockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 12:37 PM
  #37
deytookerjaabs
Registered Smut User
 
deytookerjaabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zytz View Post
I'd like to add that he's been scoring lately in spite of Kane, rather than because of.
Yep, was hoping for a big year from Kane but his creativity/confidence has been absent for a while causing him to play a simpler game which doesn't work for him yet Toews has looked like the same old guy but his puck is finding the back of the net lately.

deytookerjaabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 12:47 PM
  #38
ponder
Registered User
 
ponder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,585
vCash: 500
I'd say Malkin and Datsyuk are the only centers who are clearly better than Toews (and obviously Crosby too, if healthy). I guess you can argue guys like Henrik, Giroux and Stamkos, but personally I prefer Toews. I think he's clearly ahead of Kopitar, Backstrom, Getzlaf, Tavares, Spezza, Thornton, etc., who are all GREAT players too, just not quite on Toews' level.

With so much high end C talent in the league you're never going to have everyone agreeing on a top 5 Cs, but the way I see it Toews is top 3 with Crosby out, or top 4 including Crosby. There are certainly other centers who are a bit better than him offensively, but Toews is a total game changer in terms of defense and forechecking, he's big/strong/physical while also being very fast, he's unreal on faceoffs, apparently a very good leader, and clutch as hell, steps it up BIG TIME when it matters. Imagine it was the start of the playoffs, and you can add any center to your team, is there really anyone other than Malkin, Datsyuk and a healthy Crosby that you'd take over Toews?

ponder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 12:50 PM
  #39
zeykshade
Registered User
 
zeykshade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tannhauser Gate
Posts: 5,406
vCash: 500
Being a Bolts fan, I wouldn't trade Stamkos for Toews. That isn't to say that I don't think Toews isn't amazing and, at this point in his career, a more complete player. They're different players. Toews doesn't have the finish that Stamkos has. The things that Toews does have as tangibles, can be learned. Give Stamkos time to pick up the defensive side of the game and actually work on F/Os. He blows goats at them currently and it's something that drives me nuts actually.

zeykshade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 12:50 PM
  #40
Vukotal Recall
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 124
vCash: 500
even though i've seen toews play some, i still for some reason don't have a handle on his talent, the way i do datsyuk, crosby, malkin, backes, ovechkin, kane, etc. is he more physically gifted, or is it hockey sense? or both? specifics would be appreciated.

Vukotal Recall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:01 PM
  #41
ponder
Registered User
 
ponder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vukotal Recall View Post
even though i've seen toews play some, i still for some reason don't have a handle on his talent, the way i do datsyuk, crosby, malkin, backes, ovechkin, kane, etc. is he more physically gifted, or is it hockey sense? or both? specifics would be appreciated.
I'd say more physically gifted. Big, fast, athletic, very skilled too in terms of puck handling, shooting, close to the complete package in terms of his tools. However, he can be a bit Rick Nash like on offense, blows you away with his tools, but doesn't necessarily have the hockey sense to dominate as much as he could (on offense). Still a very dangerous offensive player, just not the total offensive superstar that he could be if he saw the game like Crosby, Datsyuk, the Sedins, Giroux, etc.

That's only commenting on his offense, though. In terms of his forechecking and play in the neutral zone and defensive zone, he sees the ice as well as anyone, AND has nearly perfect tools. Reads the play beautifully, really knows his angles, just a phenomenal player without the puck.

If you watch the Canucks a lot, think Kesler with more hockey sense, and more skill with the puck, but not on the level of guys like Crosby, Datsyuk, the Sedins, Grioux, etc. in terms of his offensive hockey sense.

ponder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:06 PM
  #42
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Its funny, he's raved about by other players, coaches, GM's, commentators, but on here....he's average.
Yeah on here you'd expect he's a #25 in the NHL kind of guy

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:07 PM
  #43
Judrix
Kruger is our 2C
 
Judrix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 2,340
vCash: 500
hmmm, hasn't become a complete Toews intangible joke thread yet, very interesting indeed.

Judrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:16 PM
  #44
Chelios
Registered User
 
Chelios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I'd say more physically gifted. Big, fast, athletic, very skilled too in terms of puck handling, shooting, close to the complete package in terms of his tools. However, he can be a bit Rick Nash like on offense, blows you away with his tools, but doesn't necessarily have the hockey sense to dominate as much as he could (on offense).
As someone who has watched almost every NHL game Toews has ever played, I completely disagree with this assessment. Toews is really good at everything (skating, strength, shot, passing, stickhandling) and absolutely great at a few things (hockey sense, faceoffs and working the puck down low). What puts him over the top, and above where maybe he should be based on his skills, is his unbelievable work ethic and determination. Nash is a horrible comparison. Nash is someone with a ton of skill and questionable desire/work ethic.

Chelios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:18 PM
  #45
YaGirlCheatinOnUs
Registered User
 
YaGirlCheatinOnUs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 169
vCash: 500
Toews isn't better than Stamkos? lol

YaGirlCheatinOnUs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:23 PM
  #46
ponder
Registered User
 
ponder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
As someone who has watched almost every NHL game Toews has ever played, I completely disagree with this assessment. Toews is really good at everything (skating, strength, shot, passing, stickhandling) and absolutely great at a few things (hockey sense, faceoffs and working the puck down low). What puts him over the top, and above where maybe he should be based on his skills, is his unbelievable work ethic and determination. Nash is a horrible comparison. Nash is someone with a ton of skill and questionable desire/work ethic.
Read my post more carefully, I was only comparing him to Nash in terms of both of them being players with absolutely elite tools (in terms of physical abilities like size/speed/strength, as well as skill with the puck) who don't necessarily produce quite as much as you'd think they could, because they don't necessarily see the game at an elite level offensively. Toews has good/fine hockey sense offensively, but it's his physical tools and skills are truly elite, as well as his effort level, obviously. You'll see I compare his overall game to "Kesler with more hockey sense, and more skill with the puck, but not on the level of guys like Crosby, Datsyuk, the Sedins, Grioux, etc. in terms of his offensive hockey sense."

ponder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:24 PM
  #47
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
As someone who has watched almost every NHL game Toews has ever played, I completely disagree with this assessment. Toews is really good at everything (skating, strength, shot, passing, stickhandling) and absolutely great at a few things (hockey sense, faceoffs and working the puck down low). What puts him over the top, and above where maybe he should be based on his skills, is his unbelievable work ethic and determination. Nash is a horrible comparison. Nash is someone with a ton of skill and questionable desire/work ethic.
Agreed. Toews does a lot of work in the high traffic areas behind and around the net which is why his game is criticized by people. He doesn't have a ton of highlight plays where he uses his hands to dangle past someone or embarass a goalie 1 on 1 (despite him being one of the better shootout performers in the NHL). In that way he's similar to Hossa who despite being a menace on defense and a career .93 point per game player is rarely mentioned with the upper echelon forwards in the league.

Illinihockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:25 PM
  #48
ricky0034
Registered User
 
ricky0034's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,268
vCash: 500
wait what

how was Toews off to a slow start? he heated up already then cooled down and is now heating up again

ricky0034 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:27 PM
  #49
Kamal007
#leak4Jlaw
 
Kamal007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,374
vCash: 50
Toews is a top 3 centre for me. 1. Crosby 2. Malkin 3. Toews. Guy is a beast.

Kamal007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-19-2012, 01:28 PM
  #50
Illinihockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 14,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Read my post more carefully, I was only comparing him to Nash in terms of both of them being players with absolutely elite tools (in terms of physical abilities like size/speed/strength, as well as skill with the puck) who don't necessarily produce quite as much as you'd think they could, because they don't necessarily see the game at an elite level offensively. Toews has good/fine hockey sense offensively, but it's his physical tools and skills are truly elite, as well as his effort level, obviously. You'll see I compare his overall game to "Kesler with more hockey sense, and more skill with the puck, but not on the level of guys like Crosby, Datsyuk, the Sedins, Grioux, etc. in terms of his offensive hockey sense."
Perhaps Toews doesn't put up those type of numbers because he is much more defenisvely responsible than all of those players (sans Datsyuk). That said, Toews is a career .90 ppg player, for comparison Giroux is .81, Henrik Sedin is .84 and Datsyuk is .99.

Illinihockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.