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Intangible Toews heating up

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:34 PM
  #76
Chelios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynheart View Post
Dude, drafting was different... I advise you look up his story. He was playing in an area where they hardly checked/noticed... He was passed over because of several reasons (not because he wasn't good enough like you are implying). Look at him .... He get's drafted first round in todays game.

And their stories are very different. Toews came into a BAD team and started to save that team (franchise player)... Datsyuk came into HOF ladden team... 3/4 line minutes is all he got. Totally different stories.
I agree they are different stories. My point is that Toews actually did those things. Datsyuk may have been drafted in the first round. Dats may have played at 19. Dats may have led a team to a Stanley cup at 21. But he didn't. Toews did. That has to count for something. The reasons that Toews' performance at a young age always comes up in these threads is because the argument against him has always been he isn't good enough offensively to be considered among the very best. When you actually compare his stats to others who are universally considered to be "elite" offensively (Datsyuk, Sedins, Giroux etc..) you see that he is actually ahead of those players at the same age.

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:35 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by topnotch View Post
This is such a horrible argument because it's just not true. In Datsyuk's rookie season he was 7th in even strength ice time per game for forwards and he also got nearly 2 minutes of PP ice time. The following year he was 5th in ES ice time for forwards and received over 2 minutes of PP time. His 3rd season, 2nd in ES ice time, and over 3 minutes of PP time.
Ouch. There goes that argument.

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:36 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
I agree they are different stories. My point is that Toews actually did those things. Datsyuk may have been drafted in the first round. Dats may have played at 19. Dats may have led a team to a Stanley cup at 21. But he didn't. Toews did. That has to count for something. The reasons that Toews' performance at a young age always comes up in these threads is because the argument against him has always been he isn't good enough offensively to be considered among the very best. When you actually compare his stats to others who are universally considered to be "elite" offensively (Datsyuk, Sedins, Giroux etc..) you see that he is actually ahead of those players at the same age.
What do Datsyuk's stats from when he was 23 have to do with how good he is now?

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:38 PM
  #79
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Thread needs more Malkin

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:40 PM
  #80
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Overrated Toews thread is go

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:48 PM
  #81
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Not understanding why anyone would take Crosby. No more of this "healthy" BS. He's injured.

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:54 PM
  #82
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I think if you only account for this season, Toews is probably a top 5 center, however, if you we account for the last few years, I think Toews is probably firmly a top 10 center. If Toews keeps this production up for another couple of years, I'd say it'd be hard to think of him as a top 5 center.

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Old
01-19-2012, 06:58 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoarDefense View Post
Thread needs more Malkin
Malkin gets mentioned in almost every post about which players are still better than Toews.

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Old
01-19-2012, 07:16 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatSaveLuongo View Post
Ask Boston what Bergeron has done in Olympics and last year cup run.
Look at the wingers of Tavares: stats before and with Tavares.
Tavares' wingers had more points than him at points this season...I don't know why people keep saying that he doesn't play with anyone.

Also Bergeron isn't close.

Only centres that are clearly better than Toews right now are Malkin and Crosby...and Crosby is out.

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Old
01-19-2012, 07:22 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Jarnkrok View Post
What do Datsyuk's stats from when he was 23 have to do with how good he is now?
Not a whole lot. What is your point?

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Old
01-19-2012, 07:27 PM
  #86
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top-5 center... only would take crosby, malkin, stamkos and datsyuk ahead of him

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Old
01-19-2012, 07:57 PM
  #87
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I dont have a problem with Toews up in the top 10 for centers.....

realizing that Chi have had a easier schedule...more home games and easier opponets than alot of the other centers.... would temper the claim so far...

and his splits vs "playoff teams" needs to be stronger otherwise its his intangibiles that are putting him up higher not his goal or pt totals vs playoff teams or even top teams

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Old
01-19-2012, 08:09 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by CPHawksFan View Post
And he's playing on a line with a struggling Pat Kane and still gettin' it done.
aww, he has to play with Pat Kane? poor guy. If only he had good linemates.

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Old
01-19-2012, 08:19 PM
  #89
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You guys realize that Toews and Malkin are the only guys with Cups and Conne Smythes right?

LOL at Tavares and Bergeron. What exactly are they better at than Toews again?

Just because Tavares has Moulson and Okposo on his line doesn't mean he's better than Toews. Bergeron is a great two way player but Toews is better in every aspect, even of just by a little.

Top 5 centers...

Malkin
Toews
Datsyuk
Sedin
Giroux

(Stamkos offers little two way play. Offensively he's still 2nd to Malkin though)

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Old
01-19-2012, 08:23 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatSaveLuongo View Post
Ask Boston what Bergeron has done in Olympics and last year cup run.
Look at the wingers of Tavares: stats before and with Tavares.
We ignore Toews' Olympics and Cup run, then? Why? Since he was better than Bergeron in each of them?

Respect the hell out of Bergeron and think he's a great player, but yeesh. Come on, man.

And Tavares is better because he's had worse wingers throughout his career. Got it. If only Toews had led Chicago to the basement of the West every season without Kane or Hossa on the team... he'd be so much better than Tavares then. Oh well
Not to mention that Tavares' wingers are pretty good this season.


Last edited by Chris Hansen: 01-19-2012 at 08:30 PM.
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Old
01-19-2012, 08:27 PM
  #91
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Old
01-19-2012, 08:29 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
aww, he has to play with Pat Kane? poor guy. If only he had good linemates.
For the last fifteen games, Kane hasn't been able to do anything. His shot has been horrid, his offensive decision making weak (and defensive, but that's irrelevant), and his passing's been off as well.

Toews has been playing with Viktor Stalberg and about half a linemate for quite a while now. Kane's been in probably the worst funk of his career.

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Old
01-19-2012, 08:42 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
aww, he has to play with Pat Kane? poor guy. If only he had good linemates.
Further proof just how dominant Toews is. Thanks for pointing it out though.

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Old
01-19-2012, 08:51 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
He was off to a slow start but now, 26 goals, second to Stamkos. First in takeaways with 71. Best faceoff % in the league, 9th in points. Cant believe some people still dont think hes a top 5 centre in the league. Id still take him over stamkos anyday of the week.
More like decent start, amazing stretch and then disappeared in comparison the past few weeks. My hockey pool wants consistency Mr. Toews!!!

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Old
01-19-2012, 09:22 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
You guys realize that Toews and Malkin are the only guys with Cups and Conne Smythes right?

LOL at Tavares and Bergeron. What exactly are they better at than Toews again?

Just because Tavares has Moulson and Okposo on his line doesn't mean he's better than Toews. Bergeron is a great two way player but Toews is better in every aspect, even of just by a little.

Top 5 centers...

Malkin
Toews
Datsyuk
Sedin
Giroux

(Stamkos offers little two way play. Offensively he's still 2nd to Malkin though)
Yea because Toews really helped his team win the cup in the Final. He was invisible the last 7+ games of the playoffs. If thats the case I take the guy with two Stanley Cups.

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Old
01-19-2012, 09:24 PM
  #96
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Old
01-19-2012, 09:30 PM
  #97
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Haha I don't know what Toews has to do to get some appreciation around here.
Best forward at the Olympics + Gold & Stanley Cup + Conn Smythe are clearly not enough.

And sorry I don't mean to offend anyone, but as of right now I still take Toews over Giroux.

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Old
01-19-2012, 09:52 PM
  #98
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Datsyuk is still clearly better than Toews.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:01 PM
  #99
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Datsyuk is still clearly better than Toews.

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Old
01-19-2012, 10:07 PM
  #100
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Quote:
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Datsyuk is still clearly better than Toews.
Very true. So enjoy it while it lasts.

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