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Best fit for Lupul-Kessel?

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Old
01-20-2012, 06:11 PM
  #51
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If I could pick anyone in the league, I'd take Toews, but he's very likely a Hawk for life. Patrice Bergeron would be amazing too, but I see him being a Bruin for life. Really, I could list any of about 50 guys here, but almost all would be very unrealistic.

Of guys who have actually recently been available, Mike Richards would have been fantastic, but he's off the market now. Backes would have been very nice had he reached free agency, and I think Brad Richards would have been solid had he wanted to come here, but again they're now off the market.

Of guys who could become available, Stastny would be pretty good, and I think Colorado will eventually move him (Duchene and ROR are likely their top 2 Cs for the future, and Joey Hishon could become a good NHL center if he can shake off that concussion). He's a bit overpaid at $6.6 mil, but he should definitely be on our radar if he ever comes on the market at all, and I do think he eventually will come on the market.

Getzlaf would be great, but I highly doubt he actually gets moved this year, or even this offseason. If he does get moved, it'll probably be at the 2012/13 deadline, and then only if the Ducks think they can't re-sign him (he's a UFA in 2013). If we can get our hands on him at any point, we should go after him HARD, but I think he's a bit of a pipe dream.

Eric Staal would be a worse fit than Getzlaf, he's a shoot first player, but he's still a big, skilled C with legit 1st line ability, I'd definitely take a run at him if he were on the market. Doubt he gets moved any time remotely soon, though.

I actually think that Philly might move a center long term, they have a lot of guys who could be top 6 centers (Giroux, Briere, Couturier and Brayden Schenn, not to mention Talbot being a very good bottom 6 center, and Matt Read is a natural C too). If we could get our hands on Couturier or Schenn, that'd be awesome.


Also, not for our 1st line, but I really think we could use a top notch penalty killing 3rd line C. There will be some good UFAs in this mold in the offseason, like Frans Nielsen and Chris Kelly, we should go hard after one of them. If we sign them, and re-sign Grabo, then we could just trade one of Bozak or Connolly, both of whom would be easy to move IMO. A guy like Kelly or Nielsen would help our PK and 3rd line tremendously.

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01-20-2012, 06:13 PM
  #52
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Dish the puck? Lupul and Kessel are already top 10 in scoring. I'd love if they won a scoring race, but we have to be gearing up for the playoffs. That line would get ***** against the top or even second lines of other team. They are weak on the boards and weak defensively. Bergeron can easily get them the puck, he's a beast in the dot, a constant selke finalist, and a great battler down low. Not to mention he is also a leader. Offense only takes you so far, and that line has to not be a liability every time the opposing team steps into their zone.
Kessel is weak along the boards and poor defensively. Don't put Lupul with him. Spezza isn't bad defensively while also have a more upside then Beregon.

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01-20-2012, 06:17 PM
  #53
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Bergeron has gotten 70+ points twice in a free run and gun system as a 20 year old. I'm sure he'll be able to put up enough offense.

I don't want average defensively with Kessel, I want a beast defensively. Let Kessel do his thing, he's already good enough to get 40 on his own, we need someone to keep the puck out.

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01-20-2012, 06:19 PM
  #54
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Dish the puck? Lupul and Kessel are already top 10 in scoring. I'd love if they won a scoring race, but we have to be gearing up for the playoffs. That line would get ***** against the top or even second lines of other team. They are weak on the boards and weak defensively. Bergeron can easily get them the puck, he's a beast in the dot, a constant selke finalist, and a great battler down low. Not to mention he is also a leader. Offense only takes you so far, and that line has to not be a liability every time the opposing team steps into their zone.
Patrice Bergeron is a 1b/2a center. He isn't a bonified #1 and if you run into a playoff series against Crosby/Malkin/Staal and Bergeron is your best...you're still screwed.

Kessel and Lupul are shooters. You need a playmaker for shooters. At this point they are setting each other up because the center that has been played on that line has been less than adequate. If you give them a player that can dish the puck people stop hoping Kessel scores 40 and start expecting it season in season out because he finally has a legitimate middle-man that can feed him in the tough areas.

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01-20-2012, 06:27 PM
  #55
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Bergeron has gotten 70+ points twice in a free run and gun system as a 20 year old. I'm sure he'll be able to put up enough offense.

I don't want average defensively with Kessel, I want a beast defensively. Let Kessel do his thing, he's already good enough to get 40 on his own, we need someone to keep the puck out.
I am very happy you are a poster here and not the GM of this team. How about we get John Madden out of retirement?!?! Decent face-off man, great defensively because he could barely skate fast enough to make it out of his own zone. PERFECT!

First line centers CAN be excellent two-way players, but the majority are offensive forces: Malkin, Sedin, Crosby, Stamkos, Spezza, Thornton, Backstrom, Kopitar.

OR look at the last 5 cup winners:
Bruins - Was Savard, he went down and Krecji became the #1
Blackhawks - Toews (two way, he'd be both of our ideal I think)
Penguins - Crosby
Wings - Datsyuk
Ducks - Getzlaf

I see a lot of offense on that list, and a lot of guys who can pass the puck.

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01-20-2012, 06:28 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by LeafsDiary View Post
Patrice Bergeron is a 1b/2a center. He isn't a bonified #1 and if you run into a playoff series against Crosby/Malkin/Staal and Bergeron is your best...you're still screwed.

Kessel and Lupul are shooters. You need a playmaker for shooters. At this point they are setting each other up because the center that has been played on that line has been less than adequate. If you give them a player that can dish the puck people stop hoping Kessel scores 40 and start expecting it season in season out because he finally has a legitimate middle-man that can feed him in the tough areas.
Really? Bergeron is defs getting **** on a little bit here. He's the Bruins best center, not Krejci. He was almost a PPG in the playoffs, so it's not like he disappears. Bergeron would shut Malkin or Crosby down. I don't think you get how good defensively Bergeron is, he is also 4th in faceoff %.

What is everyones obsession with goals? We are 6 in GPG, look where it has gotten us. If you ever have a chance to bring in a guy like Bergeron, Richards, etc etc you do it. We have to worst PK and this guy is one of the best PKer's, we have no defensive forwards and this guy is a constant selke nominee, we are weak along the boards and this guy is fearless, he almost had a PPG season as a 21 year old.

With respect to a lot of great players thrown around here, when ever I watch Getzlaf he's a more talented version of Connolly. He takes shift's off, he doesn't do the small things defensively, he makes incredible plays which are great, but we score so many goals.

When you watch Bergeron what do you see? Our star's not generating anything. He's as much as a reason as Thomas and Chara are in preventing Kessel. He's the guy winning faceoffs so Chara can take a one timer. He's the first forward in, and the first forward back. He doesn't need the puck on his blade to be effective like Getz and Kessel do. He has a nose for the net, and a great pass.

Bergeron would do wonders for our top line. But, he will forever wear a B.

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01-20-2012, 06:30 PM
  #57
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Patrice Bergeron is a 1b/2a center. He isn't a bonified #1 and if you run into a playoff series against Crosby/Malkin/Staal and Bergeron is your best...you're still screwed.

Kessel and Lupul are shooters. You need a playmaker for shooters. At this point they are setting each other up because the center that has been played on that line has been less than adequate. If you give them a player that can dish the puck people stop hoping Kessel scores 40 and start expecting it season in season out because he finally has a legitimate middle-man that can feed him in the tough areas.
Patrice Bergeron IS a playmaker, and he is also the best center on the best team in the league, who are the reigning cup champs (he's better than Krejci IMO). He's incredibly elite defensively, an amazing faceoff man, and still very good offensively (has put up two 70 point seasons in the past, is on pace for 70 again this year, don't write him off just because he took some time coming back from concussion issues). He's also one of the best penalty killers and shutdown centers in the league, which is something we SORELY lack. He'd be an amazing fit for this team, though he's clearly totally unavailable.

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01-20-2012, 06:32 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by LeafsDiary View Post
I am very happy you are a poster here and not the GM of this team. How about we get John Madden out of retirement?!?! Decent face-off man, great defensively because he could barely skate fast enough to make it out of his own zone. PERFECT!

First line centers CAN be excellent two-way players, but the majority are offensive forces: Malkin, Sedin, Crosby, Stamkos, Spezza, Thornton, Backstrom, Kopitar.

OR look at the last 5 cup winners:
Bruins - Was Savard, he went down and Krecji became the #1
Blackhawks - Toews (two way, he'd be both of our ideal I think)
Penguins - Crosby
Wings - Datsyuk
Ducks - Getzlaf

I see a lot of offense on that list, and a lot of guys who can pass the puck.
First of all, you're compairing John Madden to Patrice Bergeron. Have you ever watched a Bruin game? He is the best forward on possibly the best team in the NHL. Second, Bergeron did ten folds what Krejci did in the playoffs.

Look at all those teams 3rd lines. The common thing is depth. Toews sucked a dick in the finals. Malkin carried that team, and he was the second line center. Wings had more than one line and Datsyuk can play defense better than anyone on that list.

There is no one way to win the cup. Bergeron is as effective in a SCF as anyone on that list.

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01-20-2012, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Patrice Bergeron IS a playmaker, and he is also the best center on the best team in the league, who are the reigning cup champs (he's better than Krejci IMO). He's incredibly elite defensively, an amazing faceoff man, and still very good offensively (has put up two 70 point seasons in the past, is on pace for 70 again this year, don't write him off just because he took some time coming back from concussion issues). He's also one of the best penalty killers and shutdown centers in the league, which is something we SORELY lack. He'd be an amazing fit for this team, though he's clearly totally unavailable.
People from Vancouver just get it eh?

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01-20-2012, 06:36 PM
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I am very happy you are a poster here and not the GM of this team. How about we get John Madden out of retirement?!?! Decent face-off man, great defensively because he could barely skate fast enough to make it out of his own zone. PERFECT!

First line centers CAN be excellent two-way players, but the majority are offensive forces: Malkin, Sedin, Crosby, Stamkos, Spezza, Thornton, Backstrom, Kopitar.

OR look at the last 5 cup winners:
Bruins - Was Savard, he went down and Krecji became the #1
Blackhawks - Toews (two way, he'd be both of our ideal I think)
Penguins - Crosby
Wings - Datsyuk
Ducks - Getzlaf

I see a lot of offense on that list, and a lot of guys who can pass the puck.
Kopitar's defense is unreal, it's a huge part of what makes him such a good player, don't know what he's doing in this list. And quite frankly, guys like Backstrom, Crosby, Spezza and Thornton have matured into pretty good defensive players as well.

As for your "last 5 cup winners list," Toews and Datsyuk are ridiculously amazing defensively, Crosby is quite good defensively, and I'd say Boston's top C is/was Bergeron, who is also super elite defensively. So really Getzlaf is the only odd one out, except that he wasn't their #1 C back then, their #1 C was Andy McDonald.

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01-20-2012, 06:37 PM
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Patrice Bergeron IS a playmaker, and he is also the best center on the best team in the league, who are the reigning cup champs (he's better than Krejci IMO). He's incredibly elite defensively, an amazing faceoff man, and still very good offensively (has put up two 70 point seasons in the past, is on pace for 70 again this year, don't write him off just because he took some time coming back from concussion issues). He's also one of the best penalty killers and shutdown centers in the league, which is something we SORELY lack. He'd be an amazing fit for this team, though he's clearly totally unavailable.
I'm not saying that Bergeron is anything less than a 70 pt center, or that he isn't a great penalty killer. In fact, I own Bergeron in my fantasy keeper league.

The issue I have with this is that we aren't going to win the cup with a 70 point center. The Bruins rode hot goaltending and an aggressive style of play to the cup. Also remember that Krecji had more points (including 49 assists) than Bergeron did in the same amount of playing time. They're a deep team, they didn't win the cup because of Patrice...they won because of the depth that they have. We, do not have that yet.

Finally, if you want a shut-down center...put him on your third line. Isn't that why coaches match lines? You don't need a defensive stalwart on your first line, you need someone who can win face-offs (I agree there) but who can also make the other players on his line better offensively. Given the talent we currently have on our first line a playmaker would be the best option for the two shooters we have, and Bergeron's 35 assists last year is probably a little lower than we should be aiming for the ideal fit.

To each their own though.

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01-20-2012, 06:37 PM
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People from Vancouver just get it eh?
I'm from Toronto, but moved to Vancouver for school. Regardless, see a lot of Boston games as a Leafs fan, and as a guy simply living in Vancouver

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01-20-2012, 06:37 PM
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Fantasyland:

Joe Thornton, John Tavares, Evengi Malkin, Pavel Datsyuk.

Burkeland:

Ryan Getzlaf, Eric Staal, Paul Statsny

Leafland:

Nazem Kadri, Joe Colborne.

HFLAND!!1!

AKI BERG LOLZ

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01-20-2012, 06:41 PM
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Going to have to go with Stastny considering potential for current team to trade the player

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01-20-2012, 06:47 PM
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A semi-realistic option is Patrik Berglund from St. Louis. He currently has 18 points in 46 games, but has shown extreme potential in the past (47 point rookie year in 2008, and 52 points in 2010).

He's a big center, not sure how good he is defensively, but he has a lot of skill and may thrive in a top line role with Lupul and Kessel.

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01-20-2012, 06:57 PM
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Either Wayne Gritzky or Nicklas Backstrom.

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01-20-2012, 07:25 PM
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doug gilmour, selke winner , point a game player, playoff superstar !
modern version maybe richards or Bergeron. for those slagging Bergeron think what he would do between 2 players like kessel and lupul on a more open system. he would be able to finish plays that bozak can't while generating some of his own aside from keeping that line on the +side.

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01-20-2012, 07:37 PM
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in no particular order:

E Staal
Getzlaf
Stastny

that's out of those who would possibly be available. in general, best fit would be Toews imo. Thornton and Giroux would be nice as well as Bergeron. anyone with skill, grit and defensive awareness would be ideal Patty Marleau as well.

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01-20-2012, 07:56 PM
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First of all, you're compairing John Madden to Patrice Bergeron. Have you ever watched a Bruin game? He is the best forward on possibly the best team in the NHL. Second, Bergeron did ten folds what Krejci did in the playoffs.

Look at all those teams 3rd lines. The common thing is depth. Toews sucked a dick in the finals. Malkin carried that team, and he was the second line center. Wings had more than one line and Datsyuk can play defense better than anyone on that list.

There is no one way to win the cup. Bergeron is as effective in a SCF as anyone on that list.
Woah, what

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01-20-2012, 08:11 PM
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A semi-realistic option is Patrik Berglund from St. Louis. He currently has 18 points in 46 games, but has shown extreme potential in the past (47 point rookie year in 2008, and 52 points in 2010).

He's a big center, not sure how good he is defensively, but he has a lot of skill and may thrive in a top line role with Lupul and Kessel.
Hope we don't have him. He is pretty alright defensively too btw. But I want better, Getzy.

Also uh, Cleatus your profile picture is great The Thing!
You seen the new one.. The Thing remake? I haven't ..

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01-20-2012, 08:20 PM
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Woah, what
You think he was good? Pronger spooned his ass daily.

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01-20-2012, 08:34 PM
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in no particular order:

E Staal
Getzlaf
Stastny

that's out of those who would possibly be available. in general, best fit would be Toews imo. Thornton and Giroux would be nice as well as Bergeron. anyone with skill, grit and defensive awareness would be ideal Patty Marleau as well.
lol forgot to add toews n giroux for fantasyland but welcome to burkeland

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01-20-2012, 08:34 PM
  #73
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I would take just about any center good enough to play on team Canada.

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01-20-2012, 08:38 PM
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kessel for cory perry, there might be more involved?
we get bigger and stronger on the wing, perry is proven in the playoffs. kessel will curdle like bad milk, in the playoffs. then we can make a move for a center.
we need to get bigger and tougher to compete in the playoffs.
last game we saw it, lupol, big and tough, still got points on any line, kessel was lost, scared out there.
just a proposal.

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01-20-2012, 09:00 PM
  #75
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I'm not saying that Bergeron is anything less than a 70 pt center, or that he isn't a great penalty killer. In fact, I own Bergeron in my fantasy keeper league.

The issue I have with this is that we aren't going to win the cup with a 70 point center. The Bruins rode hot goaltending and an aggressive style of play to the cup. Also remember that Krecji had more points (including 49 assists) than Bergeron did in the same amount of playing time. They're a deep team, they didn't win the cup because of Patrice...they won because of the depth that they have. We, do not have that yet.

Finally, if you want a shut-down center...put him on your third line. Isn't that why coaches match lines? You don't need a defensive stalwart on your first line, you need someone who can win face-offs (I agree there) but who can also make the other players on his line better offensively. Given the talent we currently have on our first line a playmaker would be the best option for the two shooters we have, and Bergeron's 35 assists last year is probably a little lower than we should be aiming for the ideal fit.

To each their own though.
Agreed that I'd much rather have someone like a healthy Crosby over Patrice Bergeron, but simply in terms of FIT with the team, Bergeron would be pretty unreal. He excellent at forcing turnovers, winning puck battles, winning faceoffs, etc., Kessel and Lupul could really use a guy who can get the puck, and Bergeron is amazing at that. Would make up for their defensive deficiencies too, while also being a good playmaker, and while being able to kill penalties for the team.

Shut down centers are nice on the 3rd line, but nothing wrong with having one on the top 2 lines. Detroit have Datsyuk and Zetterberg as their #1 and #2 Cs, Chicago have Toews as their #1, Vancouver have Kesler as their #1, Boston have Bergeron as either their #1 or #2 (arguable), LA have Kopitar as their #1 and Richards as their #2, etc. Lots of top teams have a shutdown C as their #1 or #2.

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