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Giroux / Stamkos comparison

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Old
03-04-2012, 11:12 AM
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1865
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Giroux / Stamkos comparison

I put a bit of time into this comparison for the main board, thought people in here might like to read it too. Where does the supposed huge disparity between the two players come from?

--

Obviously Malkin is streets ahead. Let's look at the supposed miles gap between Giroux and Stamkos then shall we? This comparison runs between the start of last season and today and all stats are taken from NHL.com

TOI in ES or PP opportunities:
Stamkos - 2994:30.
Giroux - 2560:25.

Points Scored:
Stamkos - 171.
Giroux - 151.

Minutes Per Point:
Stamkos - 17:30
Giroux - 16.55

Remember that the points totals for Giroux are all accrued whilst also shouldering the extra workload of 3 full minutes more PK time per game than Stamkos, and also doesn't just take into account the 'one season' of Giroux dominance. Also bear in mind that Giroux's linemates for half of this recorded time wasn't close to the quality of Stamkos'.

In the time since both players have started playing first line minutes the gap in this stat widens further, with Giroux's total of 15:15 per point being considerably lower than Stamkos' 17:05. Giroux's taking nearly 2 minutes of ice time less to score each point.

If this wasn't enough, here's a collection of extra stats too.

Face-Offs:
Stamkos - 46.2%
Giroux - 52.8%

Offensive Zone Start (Finish):
Stamkos - 54.5% (51.0%)
Giroux - 47.6% (51.4%)

On-Ice CORSI:
Stamkos - 1.09
Giroux - 8.76

Penalties Drawn Per Game (Taken):
Stamkos - 1.0 (1.0)
Giroux - 1.3 (0.4)


With these stats in mind, is the gap between the two players as big as you'd think? Aside from goals (and subsequently SH%) and hits, Stamkos doesn't really beat Giroux in anything. Giroux has a better face-off percentage, he starts far less shifts in the offensive zone but ends more, his CORSI absolutely crucifies Stamkos' and he draws more penalties whilst taking far less.

So why is Stamkos perceived to be so much better than Giroux?

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03-04-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
So why is Stamkos perceived to be so much better than Giroux?
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03-04-2012, 11:18 AM
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Because Giroux was a 27 point NHL forward that played half the season in the AHL at the age Stamkos is right now, leading the league in goals and 2nd in points.

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03-04-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Because Giroux was a 27 point NHL forward that played half the season in the AHL at the age Stamkos is right now, leading the league in goals and 2nd in points.
Stamkos wasn't stuck behind a stacked offense

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03-04-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post

So why is Stamkos perceived to be so much better than Giroux?
Stamkos scores 40 goals ever year.


Giroux doesn't.

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03-04-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Stamkos scores 40 goals ever year.

Giroux doesn't.
When Giroux's on the ice, the Flyers score more goals than Tampa do when Stamkos is.

It is nice to have a pure goal scorer like Stamkos is, but i'd rather have someone who sets up or scores 51 goals than someone who sets up or scores 50.

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03-04-2012, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
When Giroux's on the ice, the Flyers score more goals than Tampa do when Stamkos is.

It is nice to have a pure goal scorer like Stamkos is, but i'd rather have someone who sets up or scores 51 goals than someone who sets up or scores 50.
Scoring goals is sexier.


You were the thinking man in a room full of simpletons.

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03-04-2012, 11:47 AM
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Giroux's corsi number is +8!!!

Holy sugartits.

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03-04-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Stamkos wasn't stuck behind a stacked offense
Then do you think if Giroux was playing on the first line with Simon Gagne and Mike Knuble he would have had 47 goals?

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03-04-2012, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Then do you think if Giroux was playing on the first line with Simon Gagne and Mike Knuble he would have had 47 goals?
He might have put up 47 assists. They are completley different players. How can you possibly make this comparison.

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03-04-2012, 12:07 PM
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I think goals are weighted more heavily for a pretty simplistic reason: there can only be one goal scorer a goal, but two assists. Makes sense to me.

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03-04-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
He might have put up 47 assists. They are completley different players. How can you possibly make this comparison.
Would Giroux have been leading the league in points 3/4 of the way through the season? Obviously not. It's not a direct comparison, but it doesn't have to be. The answer is obvious, Giroux was not even close to the player at 21 that Stamkos is. The talent might have been there, he just needed time to put it together.

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03-04-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Would Giroux have been leading the league in points 3/4 of the way through the season? Obviously not. It's not a direct comparison, but it doesn't have to be. The answer is obvious, Giroux was not even close to the player at 21 that Stamkos is. The talent might have been there, he just needed time to put it together.
In another point. Does this have any effect whatsoever on who is the better player right now? no. It doesn't matter one bit. Stamkos was a first overall draft pick. It was to be expected.

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03-04-2012, 12:35 PM
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There are players who reach their peak early. Ovechkin was one, Stamkos another. Other players take a few years to reach it, the Sedins for example.

Nobody is doubting that Stamkos started his career better than G, but the gap has been closed now.

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03-04-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
In another point. Does this have any effect whatsoever on who is the better player right now? no. It doesn't matter one bit. Stamkos was a first overall draft pick. It was to be expected.
Yes, it does. It's much more impressive that Stamkos is doing it as a younger player, and it puts the idea in people's minds that he's going to do even better things in the future when he hits his prime. What sounds more impressive to you, a 12 year old being able to throw an 85MPH fastball, or a 15 year old throwing an 85MPH fastball?

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03-04-2012, 01:21 PM
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its because stamkos works with gary roberts in the offseason and giroux works out with richard simmons.

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03-04-2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Yes, it does. It's much more impressive that Stamkos is doing it as a younger player, and it puts the idea in people's minds that he's going to do even better things in the future when he hits his prime. What sounds more impressive to you, a 12 year old being able to throw an 85MPH fastball, or a 15 year old throwing an 85MPH fastball?
People can think whatever they want. It doesn't necessarily mean Stamkos is suddenly going to be racking up 150 point seasons like it ain't a f'ing thing. One need only look at the standards were Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin were setting because those were (or still are) the best of the best. They have proven capable of dictating the pace of the game which few have ever done in the game. Giroux and Stamkos are to Crosby and OV what Sakic and Yzerman were to Lemieux and Jagr, if that makes any sense.

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03-04-2012, 01:43 PM
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03-04-2012, 01:56 PM
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I have to say it's interesting that THN polled 5 players from each team on who the top players in the league were (so 150 players in total), and Giroux came out 3rd, in front of both Malkin (6th) and Stamkos (4th). I do think the poll was done early in the year, though, so that surely plays into it, as Giroux's hot start in comparison to others' probably heavily influenced the picks. All in all, I think Stamkos is a better player, but they just have different playing styles, so it's hard to compare directly. In terms of their impact on the team I'd say they're actually pretty close, however, and it'd be a stretch to say Stamkos is miles ahead.

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03-04-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
People can think whatever they want. It doesn't necessarily mean Stamkos is suddenly going to be racking up 150 point seasons like it ain't a f'ing thing. One need only look at the standards were Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin were setting because those were (or still are) the best of the best. They have proven capable of dictating the pace of the game which few have ever done in the game. Giroux and Stamkos are to Crosby and OV what Sakic and Yzerman were to Lemieux and Jagr, if that makes any sense.
I'm just looking at your avatar and wondering if the flyers win the cup do they sign leighton to an even more crippling contract that warrants him staying in the NHL regardless of any injuries? probably but a crazy thought regardless. I guess we wouldn't care though, huh?

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03-04-2012, 03:56 PM
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Stamkos is a pure goal scorer. I think of Giroux as a playmaker who has some sick moves and can score as well.

I think Giroux is more well rounded then Stamkos, but Stamkos is a great goal scorer.

Imagine Giroux and Stamkos on the same line...that would be a hell of a line.

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03-04-2012, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
People can think whatever they want. It doesn't necessarily mean Stamkos is suddenly going to be racking up 150 point seasons like it ain't a f'ing thing. One need only look at the standards were Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin were setting because those were (or still are) the best of the best. They have proven capable of dictating the pace of the game which few have ever done in the game. Giroux and Stamkos are to Crosby and OV what Sakic and Yzerman were to Lemieux and Jagr, if that makes any sense.
Last season: 32 goals, 85 points in 79 games.
This season: 26 goals, 49 points in 60 games.

I realize he has a 65 goal season, as well as three other 50+goal seasons, and three 100+ point seasons, but last season he didn't play to the level of a generational talent or even to the level of Stamkos. This season he's far, far removed from the status of "generational talent" or even "elite". 32 goals, 85 points is impressive for a down season, but in combination with his lackluster season this season people should have serious doubts about Ovechkin.

I'm just saying that it's way off to say that, currently, he's better then Stamkos. He may have been in the past, but last season and this season he's been far worse then Stamkos has.

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03-04-2012, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I realize he has a 65 goal season, as well as three other 50+goal seasons, and three 100+ point seasons, but...
I don't think you do. I think you've already forgotten the immense amount of skill and work it takes to accomplish what Ovechkin's already done. Hell, Jagr's had his down years, which oddly enough came with the Washington Capitals as well. He's still a sure fire hall of famer, and among the top-5 greatest RWers to ever play the game.

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03-04-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
Stamkos is a pure goal scorer. I think of Giroux as a playmaker who has some sick moves and can score as well.

I think Giroux is more well rounded then Stamkos, but Stamkos is a great goal scorer.

Imagine Giroux and Stamkos on the same line...that would be a hell of a line.
Epic. Absolutely epic. And I thought there was a small chance it was gonna happen this offseason.

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03-04-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibbs18 View Post
Stamkos is a pure goal scorer. I think of Giroux as a playmaker who has some sick moves and can score as well.

I think Giroux is more well rounded then Stamkos, but Stamkos is a great goal scorer.

Imagine Giroux and Stamkos on the same line...that would be a hell of a line.
It actually did happen, at the All Star Game this year. Couture-Giroux-Stamkos, but Stammer eventually got taken off the line and Giroux scored a goal assisted by Logan Couture and Hartnell...

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