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How would you react if Gauthier traded Subban ?

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Old
01-24-2012, 12:34 PM
  #201
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Great post..it IS systemic problem with this organization, management has caved into the media's thirst for blood with young players.

This city loves to put its young stars on unreasonable pedestals but at the first sign of trouble, they tear them down with just as much passion as they did when they put them on that pedestal.

The template is pretty consistent

- praise young player
- compare him to the organizations legends
- at the first sign of trouble, bash him in the media
- exagerrate team issues and blame all that's wrong with the team on that player
- demand he be traded

then once that player is traded

- criticise management for giving up on that player too quickly

rinse & repeat...
Would have never traded the aforementioned players and especially NOT for what we received in return. Now, this concept you are mentioning has to be way more analysed than what you are doing. Yes, there are people who are like that. Not sure it's the majority. And at point, you need to verified that thes ones who are indeed asking for a trade are the SAME ones who are then blaming the org. for giving it up. Again, I don't doubt that there are people like that....but as much as we love bashing the fanbase, I would bet you it's not the majority. This organization CLEARLY gives up on their young players way too soon. And at the first sign of trouble, they prefer shipping them out while they have no value then to make them shine or trade them while they are shining.

How would I react? I would be pissed off 'cause I know Gauthier won't have fair value.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 01-24-2012 at 12:41 PM.
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01-24-2012, 12:46 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
The template is pretty consistent

- praise young player
- compare him to the organizations legends
- at the first sign of trouble, bash him in the media
- exagerrate team issues and blame all that's wrong with the team on that player
- demand he be traded

then once that player is traded

- criticise management for giving up on that player too quickly

rinse & repeat...
that **** riles me up so bad...

what's the solution though? we can't change every personality in the media for people that are not, you know, retarded. maybe a GM that knows how to handle the media - a GM that doubles as a spokesperson? a GM that puts his foot down, bans media representation at practices or some such, i dunno...

honestly, unless the usual suspects in the medias suddenly all get massive coronaries, i doubt anything changes. the more time goes on, the more and more convinced i am that he will get shipped somewhere for less than stellar returns

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01-24-2012, 12:46 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Would have never traded the aforementioned players and especially NOT for what we received in return. Now, this concept you are mentioning has to be way more analysed than what you are doing. Yes, there are people who are like that. Not sure it's the majority. And at point, you need to verified that thes ones who are indeed asking for a trade are the SAME ones who are then blaming the org. for giving it up. Again, I don't doubt that there are people like that....but as much as we love bashing the fanbase, I would bet you it's not the majority. This organization CLEARLY gives up on their young players way too soon. And at the first sign of trouble, they prefer shipping them out while they have no value then to make them shine or trade them while they are shining.

How would I react? I would be pissed off 'cause I know Gauthier won't have fair value.
well that was a pretty rudimentary analysis of how things are in Montreal...but i'm sure you got the gist

But it IS systemic, this city eats its young stars...but I think it's reached a new level as it relates to PK, it's gotten to the point where people are planting stories about him (i.e. spitting on Del Zotto).

I hope management shows the same patience & loyalty they did with Carey Price...because I guarantee you at some point in the next year, Subban will be back to being 'the best dman we've had since Chris Chelios' like he was before

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01-24-2012, 12:48 PM
  #204
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with joy, 5 million saved for a guy that has a better attitude to being an nhl'er

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01-24-2012, 01:04 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
that **** riles me up so bad...

what's the solution though? we can't change every personality in the media for people that are not, you know, retarded. maybe a GM that knows how to handle the media - a GM that doubles as a spokesperson? a GM that puts his foot down, bans media representation at practices or some such, i dunno...

honestly, unless the usual suspects in the medias suddenly all get massive coronaries, i doubt anything changes. the more time goes on, the more and more convinced i am that he will get shipped somewhere for less than stellar returns
a GM that's not afraid to stick to his plan and his convictions and isn't pressured by outside influence. Too many times the GM has succombed to media pressure.

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01-24-2012, 01:05 PM
  #206
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Id be so angry id probably laugh for a while.

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01-24-2012, 01:15 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Would have never traded the aforementioned players and especially NOT for what we received in return. Now, this concept you are mentioning has to be way more analysed than what you are doing. Yes, there are people who are like that. Not sure it's the majority. And at point, you need to verified that thes ones who are indeed asking for a trade are the SAME ones who are then blaming the org. for giving it up. Again, I don't doubt that there are people like that....but as much as we love bashing the fanbase, I would bet you it's not the majority. This organization CLEARLY gives up on their young players way too soon. And at the first sign of trouble, they prefer shipping them out while they have no value then to make them shine or trade them while they are shining.

How would I react? I would be pissed off 'cause I know Gauthier won't have fair value.
Oh come on dude. If it isn't the majority then it's certainly the majority of people who open their mouths about the team.

What 417 wrote is entirely accurate. It may not be everybody but it's a pretty obvious picture of what we've seen happen time and time again. I mean really if I was a bigger ass than I already am I know posters who I could look up and find time and time again doing this, it would not even be hard, but then I'd get infractions for calling out posters even though these people are walking contradictions and hypocrites to the max

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01-24-2012, 01:22 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Franked View Post
Not sure what your post means. The article basically just quotes a couple of scouts saying the Habs should NOT trade Subban...

At least, post this article, wich is a lot more incendiary (although there's already a thread about it, so I don't see the point).

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...011/story.html

Sorry, maybe I just don't get your post.
Seriously ? You dont get that of RDS has written this, its because someone somehwere talked about it !

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01-24-2012, 01:23 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
with joy, 5 million saved for a guy that has a better attitude to being an nhl'er
He's a kid. He's what 22 years old? And he's playing 25+ minutes and playing the role of #1 or #2 D at that age in the circus hotbed of hockey that is Montreal. What the hell do you expect the veteran presence and piece of mind of Nick Lidstrom?

A person matures and you can easily modify or change an attitude. You can't however, modify or change talent. We have a gem on our hands, FFS don't listen to and buy into what the guys with a talk show and nothing to say are trying to force-feed you. It takes time (not days, weeks but years to develop defensemen.

The key word is patience. Let him be an ass, make stupid passes, smirk and argue. He's a kid, he'll figure it out and will become a better player for it.

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01-24-2012, 01:35 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Seriously ? You dont get that of RDS has written this, its because someone somehwere talked about it !
So what is your agenda then? What you seem to be implying is re-hashing a worthless debate the Habs board surely doesn't need, with countless examples of past failures.

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01-24-2012, 01:38 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
a GM that's not afraid to stick to his plan and his convictions and isn't pressured by outside influence. Too many times the GM has succombed to media pressure.
that's not gonna cut it i think. the boo-birds WILL come out and then what? say, for example, that the subban frenzy in the media continues until the end of the season, what do you think is over/under for the boo-birds to come out on him before the end of the season?

that type of GM you described is needed for sure, but i doubt it changes anything. i think the whole culture of the city - starting with the medias - need a change

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01-24-2012, 01:39 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
He's a kid. He's what 22 years old? And he's playing 25+ minutes and playing the role of #1 or #2 D at that age in the circus hotbed of hockey that is Montreal. What the hell do you expect the veteran presence and piece of mind of Nick Lidstrom?

A person matures and you can easily modify or change an attitude. You can't however, modify or change talent. We have a gem on our hands, FFS don't listen to and buy into what the guys with a talk show and nothing to say are trying to force-feed you. It takes time (not days, weeks but years to develop defensemen.

The key word is patience. Let him be an ass, make stupid passes, smirk and argue. He's a kid, he'll figure it out and will become a better player for it.
I agree with you...

But now we know better WHY he was still available in the second round...

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01-24-2012, 01:47 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
that's not gonna cut it i think. the boo-birds WILL come out and then what? say, for example, that the subban frenzy in the media continues until the end of the season, what do you think is over/under for the boo-birds to come out on him before the end of the season?

that type of GM you described is needed for sure, but i doubt it changes anything. i think the whole culture of the city - starting with the medias - need a change
Bingo.

Bang on.

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01-24-2012, 01:51 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
I agree with you...

But now we know better WHY he was still available in the second round...
Maybe that's why yes, more because he's hard to coach within an NHL system I think. But the advantage is that he's a bright kid. He's no idiot, so he can and imo will learn the ropes. Just have to give it time and work with him instead of throwing in the towel and reacting with complete impatience and throwing the city's entire frustrations at at 22 year old kid.

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01-24-2012, 01:54 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Maybe that's why yes, more because he's hard to coach within an NHL system I think. But the advantage is that he's a bright kid. He's no idiot, so he can and imo will learn the ropes. Just have to give it time and work with him instead of throwing in the towel and reacting with complete impatience and throwing the city's entire frustrations at at 22 year old kid.
Absolutely....

But gauthier seems very thin skinned and doesn't seem to allow any ***** from anyone. Pearn, Gauthier and Cammy gotr the message.

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01-24-2012, 01:55 PM
  #216
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Gauthier trades Subban and im selling my Subban jersey and getting something a little more Datsyukian

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01-24-2012, 01:56 PM
  #217
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yeah, let's trade Chelios!

While we're at it, get rid of Roy too!

we don't need these type of players if we want to contend in the future

what's lecavalier doing?

giguere?

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01-24-2012, 01:58 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Absolutely....

But gauthier seems very thin skinned and doesn't seem to allow any ***** from anyone. Pearn, Gauthier and Cammy gotr the message.
That's one way of seeing it I guess. I see a guy who panicked and didn't judge the pulse of his hockey team properly.

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01-24-2012, 02:01 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by kyrest View Post
Gauthier trades Subban and im selling my Subban jersey and getting something a little more Datsyukian
so you'd become a detroit fan? or you actually believe they'd trade datsyuk for subban?

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01-24-2012, 02:03 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by oilershabs View Post
yeah, let's trade Chelios!

While we're at it, get rid of Roy too!

we don't need these type of players if we want to contend in the future

what's lecavalier doing?

giguere?
LOL nah he's going to trade Subban+Plekanec for Brian Boyle and claim we now have a #1 Center. Don't the Canadiens seem like a good metaphor for class warfare, the rich (Gomez, Kaberle ect) get paid like kings to do essentially nothing while the poor (Eller, Subban, Diaz, Leblanc) hard working people get screwed

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01-24-2012, 02:05 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by oilershabs View Post
so you'd become a detroit fan? or you actually believe they'd trade datsyuk for subban?
Yes i would just because i can't take the 12-15 years of absolute mediocre hockey anymore. Detroit would never do that trade

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01-24-2012, 02:24 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
Seriously ? You dont get that of RDS has written this, its because someone somehwere talked about it !
Well, you and I are talking about it right now, so yeah, people are talking about it. So is the media. Who cares? If your article said "Habs should trade Pk for a bag of pucks", then sure, i'd care. But it doesn't.

So no, I don't get your point.

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01-24-2012, 02:26 PM
  #223
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Well, you and I are talking about it right now, so yeah, people are talking about it. So is the media. Who cares? If your article said "Habs should trade Pk for a bag of pucks", then sure, i'd care. But it doesn't.

So no, I don't get your point.
But we're only talking about because the media made up that story and are continuously running with it. John Lu asked Subban today how he felt about people wanting him traded and trade speculations made by fans. As far as I know, very little people want him traded and are speculating about his being traded outside the media. They started this mess just so they can have some sort of story to fill their papers.

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01-24-2012, 02:47 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Bingo.

Bang on.
Too much journalists...simple as that. Its not just about politics anymore...there are as many GM's as there are journalists around the team.

Edit : Oh and BTW I dont read anything Habs related in the journals anymore...

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01-24-2012, 02:54 PM
  #225
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But we're only talking about because the media made up that story and are continuously running with it. John Lu asked Subban today how he felt about people wanting him traded and trade speculations made by fans. As far as I know, very little people want him traded and are speculating about his being traded outside the media. They started this mess just so they can have some sort of story to fill their papers.
They made up what exactly? It's only speculation. And yes people are speculating, people are on this board, people are making trade proposals on the trade board. Is there a massive movement demanding we trade Subban for a bag of pucks? No, and there isn't in the media either.

Any player that has had problems on any team, young and old, is facing the same problem. Bogosian, Kessel, Ryan, Spezza, etc.

That doesn't mean in any way they'll get traded. So, in the end, who cares?

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