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Larionov vs russian development

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01-20-2012, 11:38 AM
  #1
vorky
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Larionov vs russian development

I have a feeling Igor Larionov has made steps to ruin russian development system. He brings young kids to North America, what is generally bad for them (not all). He does not contribute to developing russian hockey. IMO he should work for russian leagues and help them. IMO he makes an enviroment - idea - that moving to NA is better than staying home. Is is bad attitude, bad for russian hockey.

http://allhockey.ru/news/114918/

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01-20-2012, 11:54 AM
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He has his issues with people still in control of Russian clubs, it's no secret. Besides, it's been covered many times before on the prospects board that for some players (no matter what country) playing in a another country might be a better option if the situation in his own country/club isn't best for his development.

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01-20-2012, 12:08 PM
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cska78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post


He has his issues with people still in control of Russian clubs, it's no secret. Besides, it's been covered many times before on the prospects board that for some players (no matter what country) playing in a another country might be a better option if the situation in his own country/club isn't best for his development.
Larinov is sour apples with Russian hockey federation, he tries to pry some of the best prospects out of Russia at a very young age - not good. And since he's such a prominent figure in hoceky - people go for it. There of course exeptions to the rule, but the majority of Russians are better off staying home and developing in the MHL, imho

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01-20-2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
Larinov is sour apples with Russian hockey federation, he tries to pry some of the best prospects out of Russia at a very young age - not good. And since he's such a prominent figure in hoceky - people go for it. There of course exeptions to the rule, but the majority of Russians are better off staying home and developing in the MHL, imho
yes, I fully support this statement. Of course, if a kid has bad conditions at home, it is good to go away. BUT... leaving at the age of 16/17 is really bad for EVERY kid. Larionov makes it, he brings young guys to NA (Dikushin). It is really bad. He has authority, he was great player, so young kids follow his steps.

I have no problem if 18 y guy goes to NA. I have problem with leaving such a young kids. MHL is good league for these russians, no need to go away.

Do Kurri or swedes hockey legends say that going to NA at the age of 16/17 is best for kids? Please, give me a link.
If russians want to create great developing system, they need every legend to support it. I personally know people from MHL headquarter and a few PR guys, All of them know that russian kids hockey needs reform. On other hand they do their best for juniors, because MHL is junior league.
Larionov makes MHL weaker, he makes steps against russian developing system. Why does not he help MHL? Why does not he support reform of kid hockey? Why he brings best prospects to NA?
Why does not he help kids who are not good enough to make MHL roster? Larionov can bring them to NA a develop them.

Would be swedish developing system so good if someone brought best prospects to NA (elsewhere) year or two after starting this program?

Jussi, maybe you dont understand what I want to say. I know that russian clubs are not ideal, but MHL tries to make thing better and Larionov makes steps against it. It is not good.

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01-20-2012, 12:34 PM
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slovak and czech agents do the same. They dont want to help domestic developing system. They have ruined it. Of course, clubs and federations have made mistakes as well

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01-20-2012, 12:39 PM
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I dont agree with what he does, but I cant hold it against him for why he does it. One of the smartest people in Russian hockey, not corrupt.
Medvedev wanted him working with the KHL. So Larionov invited him to Detroit to have a tour with Red Wings execs on how to run a successful first class organization (Many people would die for this opportunity) and Medvedev ignorantly was a no show. Red Wings have most respected management/executive team in professional sports history.

I know Igor runs hockey camps in Russia for all of the top young guys. I believe he recruits his players from these camps. He also recently recruited a trainer from my home town (he trained me hehe) by the name of Andy Paquette to help run his camps.

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01-20-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
slovak and czech agents do the same. They dont want to help domestic developing system. They have ruined it. Of course, clubs and federations have made mistakes as well
Apparently Larionov only brings over guys who he thinks will succeed in NA style game i.e. Yakupov, I believe Pedan and Sergeev as well. We'll see how his track record goes after a few years.

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01-20-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Medvedev wanted him working with the KHL.
and he should

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01-20-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Apparently Larionov only brings over guys who he thinks will succeed in NA style game i.e. Yakupov, I believe Pedan and Sergeev as well. We'll see how his track record goes after a few years.
he can bring them when they are over 18, NOT before

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01-20-2012, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
he can bring them when they are over 18, NOT before
Why? If kid's parents agree with Larionov, that playing on other side of the pond will help their child make a living of hockey, they should go for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky
and he should
malkinfan already pointed out that co-operation between them was disrupted by Medvedev's actions

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01-20-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
malkinfan already pointed out that co-operation between them was disrupted by Medvedev's actions
he wrote that Larionov inveted Medvedev to Detroit organisation. It is not a reason for refusing cooperation with KHL.

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01-20-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
he wrote that Larionov inveted Medvedev to Detroit organisation. It is not a reason for refusing cooperation with KHL.
So you are saying that Larionov is to blame for Medvedev's no show? It's quite clear that Medvedev doesn't want to listen to Larionov's advice on how great hockey organisation should be run. In what other way Larionov actually can help Russian hockey if not by solid advice and opinion?

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01-20-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
So you are saying that Larionov is to blame for Medvedev's no show? It's quite clear that Medvedev doesn't want to listen to Larionov's advice on how great hockey organisation should be run. In what other way Larionov actually can help Russian hockey if not by solid advice and opinion?
Why should Medvedev visit RW? It is enough Larionov to tell him how to make thing. No need to visit organisation.
Not accepting visit in RW does not mean refusing Larionovīs advice

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01-20-2012, 01:10 PM
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Larionov can talk about problems of Russian hockey without end, but he is not doing anything about it, if not making it worse. He's been talking for many years, but what exactly has he done?

Fetisov and Medvedev on the other hand, hate them or love, but they are doing something. Better a good plan today, than a perfect plan tomorrow.

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01-20-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Not accepting visit in RW does not mean refusing Larionovīs advice
Quite contrary, it means exactly that. And it also is a clear sign of disrespect.

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01-20-2012, 01:28 PM
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Why? If kid's parents agree with Larionov, that playing on other side of the pond will help their child make a living of hockey, they should go for it.
Do parents have a proof that for their kid is better to move? IMO they dont and will never have. They just believe.. why they believe? because big Larionov told it. It is not good, he has a big influence and use it against russian hockey

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01-20-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Larionov can talk about problems of Russian hockey without end, but he is not doing anything about it, if not making it worse. He's been talking for many years, but what exactly has he done?

Fetisov and Medvedev on the other hand, hate them or love, but they are doing something. Better a good plan today, than a perfect plan tomorrow.
I agree, I dont want to beatify Fetisov and Medvedev but I can see some positive things they have made. One of them is MHL, second is popularisation of hockey in country, 3rd is attitude to NHL (could help all Europe) etc. Slovakia is in European Union which Russia is not. BUT, players in slovak senior league dont have such conditions like KHL has. I dont say about paychecks, I say about medicine, insurance, contract conditions. As I understand, KHL/MHL players are employees - on other hand slovak players are mostly body corporate ("firm") by law. It is different legal status! This in Slovakia is disadvantageous for players.


I will repeat your words, I agree with them. He should stop doing it.
Larionov can talk about problems of Russian hockey without end, but he is not doing anything about it, if not making it worse.

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01-20-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Quite contrary, it means exactly that. And it also is a clear sign of disrespect.
If I refuse your invitation to your city, does it mean I dont want to know more about your city?

I refused invitation of MHL to World Club Junior Cup last summer. Does it mean I am not interesting in this tourney?

I refused invitation to WJC in Ufa next december. Does it mean I am not interesting in this WJC?

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01-20-2012, 03:08 PM
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As i know one of serebryakovs fathers best friends Larionov is very pushy when he gets his eyes on a kid....

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01-20-2012, 04:00 PM
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I can only agree that trying to get players at 16/17 years of age to move to another continent probably ain't that great for a players development. If you want to come to the NHL do it when you're ready at 20-22 years of age (like Kuznetsov, Tarasenko probably will or like Ovechkin, Malkin and many other Russian have done). Off course there are other reasons for this (the Russian factor, lack of a transfer agreement etc).

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01-20-2012, 04:04 PM
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there are other reasons for this (the Russian factor, lack of a transfer agreement etc).
I dont see it as problems. If you are good enough you can sign NHL team. I see this "russian factor" as PR stuff. Lack of transfer agreement is definitle NOT a problem. Czech rep has NOT it as well

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01-20-2012, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Larionov can talk about problems of Russian hockey without end, but he is not doing anything about it, if not making it worse. He's been talking for many years, but what exactly has he done?

Fetisov and Medvedev on the other hand, hate them or love, but they are doing something. Better a good plan today, than a perfect plan tomorrow.
Nail on the head.

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01-20-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Quite contrary, it means exactly that. And it also is a clear sign of disrespect.
Medvedev could view being told to come to the Red Wings so they can show you how to run an organization is spitting in his face. Don't forget a lot of these guys have a lot of pride and arrogance. Although I agree with Larionov's intentions in this situation.

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01-20-2012, 05:23 PM
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Larionov was a great player, but I am saddened to see him became a negative influence (if not a full traitor) to Russian hockey.

He is responsible for ruining careers of some of the best Russian junior players (Grigorenko, Yakupov etc.). Yes, I already consider both of them to be ruined.

Then again, if Russia cannot hold on their best players then Russia can blame itself too. Larionov is not an all-powerful figure that no one can resist.

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01-20-2012, 05:26 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Why? If kid's parents agree with Larionov, that playing on other side of the pond will help their child make a living of hockey, they should go for it.
In most cases these kids and their parents are both ignorant and stupid.

Even Kirill Kabanov now admits he made a huge mistake by going over. Do you remember what Kabanov and his dad were saying a year ago? Now their attitudes have changed 180 degrees. Too bad Kabanov's career is already destroyed before it even really started. It is too late for him to regret now.

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