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Larionov vs russian development

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Old
01-20-2012, 05:30 PM
  #26
Peter25
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Larionov can talk about problems of Russian hockey without end, but he is not doing anything about it, if not making it worse. He's been talking for many years, but what exactly has he done?
Larionov is a lot like Russian liberasts (Kasyanov, Nemtsov, Navalny etc.). He only talks and criticizes but does nothing to help himself.

At least the KHL people (Medvedev etc.) are doing something. Larionov is just yapping his mouth and bringing his negative influence by destroying careers of young Russian hockey players.

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01-20-2012, 05:34 PM
  #27
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The thing I don't understand is that why don't these kids see the bad examples (Kabanov etc.)? They see what going to Canada does to a young Russian hockey players and they still continue to go there. It is like they are voluntarily burying their own hockey careers.

Is it ignorance? Stupidity? What?

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01-20-2012, 06:10 PM
  #28
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So how come FHR doesnt do anything about it ? Im sure Larionov has a lot of enemies in Russia and a lot of people see him as a traitor, surely they can do something to stop it, or they would like to. Surely how would a kid resist a call from Larionov himself, the kid would probably ***** bricks for a week, but another call from Tretiak or one of big guys out there would calm things down.

It was down to him wherever Galchenyuk would play for USA or Russia. The kid will play in NHL all his career anyway, what difference makes what country he represents? Then why choose USA over Russia when the kid learned to play under russian style, barely can speak english.
Most said it would help his career ? HOW ? Theres no 'russian factor' with this kid. He'd get picked right where his talent will place him. Not like he will have to pay less taxes or something if plays for USA.
I think he was properly brainwashed by Larionov, who himself was brainwashed by NA.
Not sure about this one but think Larionov was asked to work with the national team. Didnt accept as was told he wouldnt have a say in the formation of the roster. I think it was position as GM.
I REALLY REALLY wanted to see him in that position making most decisions on guys who would play in WHC or Olympics. I bet you we would have seen names on those teams who fans etc wouldnt even put on B team. The guy is out there to do damage. Something needs to be done. Get SVR involved, get Andrey Lugovoy a visa to USA.

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01-20-2012, 06:25 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Dares View Post
Something needs to be done. Get SVR involved, get Andrey Lugovoy a visa to USA.

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01-20-2012, 06:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
i know its bad , hey what can you do, they'd do anything to take you down, they havent gone softer since Bobby Clarke vs Kharlamov, still looks right to them. The only thing which might make use their brains a bit is end to Crosby's career.

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01-20-2012, 06:46 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Dares View Post
So how come FHR doesnt do anything about it ? Im sure Larionov has a lot of enemies in Russia and a lot of people see him as a traitor, surely they can do something to stop it, or they would like to. Surely how would a kid resist a call from Larionov himself, the kid would probably ***** bricks for a week, but another call from Tretiak or one of big guys out there would calm things down.

It was down to him wherever Galchenyuk would play for USA or Russia. The kid will play in NHL all his career anyway, what difference makes what country he represents? Then why choose USA over Russia when the kid learned to play under russian style, barely can speak english.
Most said it would help his career ? HOW ? Theres no 'russian factor' with this kid. He'd get picked right where his talent will place him. Not like he will have to pay less taxes or something if plays for USA.
I think he was properly brainwashed by Larionov, who himself was brainwashed by NA.
Not sure about this one but think Larionov was asked to work with the national team. Didnt accept as was told he wouldnt have a say in the formation of the roster. I think it was position as GM.
I REALLY REALLY wanted to see him in that position making most decisions on guys who would play in WHC or Olympics. I bet you we would have seen names on those teams who fans etc wouldnt even put on B team. The guy is out there to do damage. Something needs to be done. Get SVR involved, get Andrey Lugovoy a visa to USA.
what do you speak about?

I give you example and hope you will understand. What would you say if Gretzky or another great Canadian/American said 16 y player: "go tommorow to Europe/Asia, it is best for your development" and Canada/USA would make steps to get better national development programme?

or more real example, USA has NTDP as developing program for young hockey players. I suppose it is program of US Hockey. Imagine Jeremy Roenick (whoever, US hockey legend) says to kids: "dont accept invitation to NTDP, choose coming to Canada, Europe instead". Would be such behaviour appropriate? I think NOT.. Larionov makes the same.

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01-20-2012, 06:58 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
if not a full traitor to Russian hockey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dares View Post
properly brainwashed by Larionov, who himself was brainwashed by NA...The guy is out there to do damage. Something needs to be done. Get SVR involved, get Andrey Lugovoy a visa to USA.


You guys are not official representatives of Russia, but you still manage to shed such a bad light on Russia. If anyone is doing damage, it's you people.

On topic:
Singling out individual scapegoats IMO is not much more than a sign of powerless frustration and anger. You won't fix your structural issues by treating them as moral issues.

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01-20-2012, 07:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
what do you speak about?

I give you example and hope you will understand. What would you say if Gretzky or another great Canadian/American said 16 y player: "go tommorow to Europe/Asia, it is best for your development" and Canada/USA would make steps to get better national development programme?

or more real example, USA has NTDP as developing program for young hockey players. I suppose it is program of US Hockey. Imagine Jeremy Roenick (whoever, US hockey legend) says to kids: "dont accept invitation to NTDP, choose coming to Canada, Europe instead". Would be such behaviour appropriate? I think NOT.. Larionov makes the same.
I get your point. Just pissed at stuff Larionov does, from interviews i have been reading for last year, thing about him not wanting to work with national team etc etc.... i know the guys in Russia dont have it 100% right but they working on improving it. Who was saying that Nazarov was helping/ giving ideas about junior hockey etc..this is what its all about, the guys in russia fight like dogs for a share of the cake, they all big names in hockey and trying to get a bigger share they work, try to improve but not use their mouths like others.

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01-20-2012, 07:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post


You guys are not official representatives of Russia, but you still manage to shed such a bad light on Russia. If anyone is doing damage, it's you people.

On topic:
Singling out individual scapegoats IMO is not much more than a sign of powerless frustration and anger. You won't fix your structural issues by treating them as moral issues.

Exactly way over the line, i know its super bad
Just a fan, nothing major to do with hockey, just getting pissed bit too much, my bad

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01-20-2012, 08:48 PM
  #35
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why should larianov do anything for Russia? Yes, it might be moral but he has no abligations...heck we dont even know if he supports Russia. He played and lives in America, and his daughters are Americans, he is pretty much the same. And also a businessman. He speaks Russian and has connections in Russia so it is profitable for him to pull kids out and transfer them. I dont think he gives a ****. He is just a business making money, and having a Russian passpotr or background doesnt make him want to support Russia or their hockey.

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01-20-2012, 09:13 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by yunost View Post
why should larianov do anything for Russia? Yes, it might be moral but he has no abligations...heck we dont even know if he supports Russia. He played and lives in America, and his daughters are Americans, he is pretty much the same. And also a businessman. He speaks Russian and has connections in Russia so it is profitable for him to pull kids out and transfer them. I dont think he gives a ****. He is just a business making money, and having a Russian passpotr or background doesnt make him want to support Russia or their hockey.
yes, it is his right to do what he wants.. also not support russian hockey. I just say I have a feeling he makes thing which are not good for russian hockey. That is all.

Why should he support/help? Because he is a agent and he needs great developing programm in Russia to be able to "sell" young players in future.

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01-20-2012, 09:15 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Do Kurri or swedes hockey legends say that going to NA at the age of 16/17 is best for kids? Please, give me a link.
Kurri never says anything worthwhile. Too busy being the GM... CHL's never been the problem in Finland, we recognize that some kids might be better off than playing here (usually the bigger guys who are physically ahead of their peers).

As for Larionov, for some kids CHL might be a good option, so I'd be happy that you've got someone like Larionov helping them find the right club. Bad for Russia? People, we're talking about individual kids here, they're not owned by anyone, "the good of Russian hockey" should be none of their concern. All they need to worry about what's good for them in their personal situation.

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01-20-2012, 09:27 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post


You guys are not official representatives of Russia, but you still manage to shed such a bad light on Russia. If anyone is doing damage, it's you people.

On topic:
Singling out individual scapegoats IMO is not much more than a sign of powerless frustration and anger. You won't fix your structural issues by treating them as moral issues.
Don't forget, Peter25 isn't even Russian. He's a born and bred Finn.

I think we covered this a year or two ago in another thread but Larionov got fed up with the "old guard" and the bureaucrats while he worked for KHL club. No matter now much wanted to change stuff, he always ran into an "invisible wall". if these things change, maybe he'll do somethine else.

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01-21-2012, 04:09 PM
  #39
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Igor's son plays tier 1 hockey for Detroit Honeybaked( #1 Minor Bantam team in the country), and Igor has a very close relationship with Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Junior Knights (#3 ranked team in the country). Heard he played a large part in bringing over some Russian kids to be a part of the Junior Knights team.

Interesting team, that has some very strong Soviet Union/Russian ties to it.

http://alexvaskohockey.com/index-1.html

Know next to nothing about his current position in Russian hockey, but he's definitely making waves when it comes to USA Hockey.

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01-23-2012, 06:20 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
The thing I don't understand is that why don't these kids see the bad examples (Kabanov etc.)? They see what going to Canada does to a young Russian hockey players and they still continue to go there. It is like they are voluntarily burying their own hockey careers.

Is it ignorance? Stupidity? What?
they see how good are Yakupov or Grigorenko and they know that Khohlachev, Namestnikov,Bobkov,Makarov are all doing pretty well and they all have good press in massmedia and among the scouts. Prohorkin and Slepyshev are not any worse( but probably better) than Zharkov for example but Zharkov is likely going in 1 round but Prohorkin and Slepyshev might not be selected even in 2-3 round which is not what they want obviously! Coming over they will have better chance to get drafted on higher place in NHL Draft. And that is very important for young players.

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01-23-2012, 07:01 AM
  #41
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Coming over they will have better chance to get drafted on higher place in NHL Draft. And that is very important for young players.
when this stupid NHL PR ended? draft is not important!! look at Bobrovsky

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01-23-2012, 07:56 AM
  #42
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when this stupid NHL PR ended? draft is not important!! look at Bobrovsky
He's an embarrassment to the department!

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01-23-2012, 11:00 AM
  #43
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when this stupid NHL PR ended? draft is not important!! look at Bobrovsky
pretty obviously its important if you want to play in NHL. If you think that all this draft lottery is muppet show then you are very delusional. Bobrovsky is an exception. He worked hard and was in right time in right place and he made it but far more often its not work out this way.

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01-23-2012, 11:05 AM
  #44
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pretty obviously its important if you want to play in NHL. If you think that all this draft lottery is muppet show then you are very delusional. Bobrovsky is an exception. He worked hard and was in right time in right place and he made it but far more often its not work out this way.
Bobrovsky is a proof you can play NHL without drafting.

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01-23-2012, 11:42 AM
  #45
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Bobrovsky is a proof you can play NHL without drafting.
i did answered for this statement already. As long as NHL is your goal you need to do everything to be drafted as high as possible.

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01-28-2012, 01:48 PM
  #46
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Larinov is sour apples with Russian hockey federation, he tries to pry some of the best prospects out of Russia at a very young age - not good. And since he's such a prominent figure in hoceky - people go for it. There of course exeptions to the rule, but the majority of Russians are better off staying home and developing in the MHL, imho
Larionov was always complaining about being dissatisfied with the system
going back to his earliest days. He complained about being acquired by CSKA from Khimik, despite the fact that going to CSKA allowed him to get the best of everything and, let's face it, he never would have had his NA career if he had stayed with Khimik. In his book in 1989, he trashed Tikhonov and everyone in the hockey hierarchy thoroughly. He was always known for being the rebel, so its no surprise that he has no love for the Russian hockey federation.

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01-28-2012, 02:30 PM
  #47
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Larionov was always complaining about being dissatisfied with the system
going back to his earliest days. He complained about being acquired by CSKA from Khimik, despite the fact that going to CSKA allowed him to get the best of everything and, let's face it, he never would have had his NA career if he had stayed with Khimik. In his book in 1989, he trashed Tikhonov and everyone in the hockey hierarchy thoroughly. He was always known for being the rebel, so its no surprise that he has no love for the Russian hockey federation.
Do you know if Larionov's book is available anywhere? Would love to buy a copy. Thanks.

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01-28-2012, 04:07 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Larionov can talk about problems of Russian hockey without end, but he is not doing anything about it, if not making it worse. He's been talking for many years, but what exactly has he done?

Fetisov and Medvedev on the other hand, hate them or love, but they are doing something. Better a good plan today, than a perfect plan tomorrow.
True. Fetisov gave up a soft NA life to come back to do what he could to help build Russian sport. He felt a calling to come back to do whatever he could do to help. I suppose you could argue about whether he succeeded or not, but he did his very best to contribute as much as he could. I'm sad to see him leaving CSKA because he is as much responsible for the building of CSKA as CSKA is for developing him as a player. I hope he reconsiders and stays involved in Russian hockey. Its hard to imagine Russian hockey without him.

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01-28-2012, 04:18 PM
  #49
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Do you know if Larionov's book is available anywhere? Would love to buy a copy. Thanks.
The title of the book is LARIONOV. That's it. It was published in 1990 by Codner Books, 15-1430 Maroons Road, Winnipeg, MB, R3G OL5. I don't know if that address is still correct or not. If not for sale, I would feel certain that it is available in a major library in Toronto, or, you can obtain it through the inter-library loan program. Some library will have it.


Last edited by Yakushev72: 01-28-2012 at 04:20 PM. Reason: If you can't find it for some reason, send me a private message. I could let you read mine.
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01-28-2012, 04:20 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Larionov was always complaining about being dissatisfied with the system
going back to his earliest days. He complained about being acquired by CSKA from Khimik, despite the fact that going to CSKA allowed him to get the best of everything and, let's face it, he never would have had his NA career if he had stayed with Khimik. In his book in 1989, he trashed Tikhonov and everyone in the hockey hierarchy thoroughly. He was always known for being the rebel, so its no surprise that he has no love for the Russian hockey federation.

Its always easier to criticise something then to help make something better.

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