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Mathias Brunet Worries Gauthier Still Allowed to Make Trades

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Old
01-20-2012, 09:57 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by larek View Post
I did not like Martin wanted him gone but not this way- with cunny being brought in
i was thinking more a whole regime change at the end of the season any other way especially the way it went was rather useless- although i will say if martin still would have been coach i dont think you would have heard Gauthier say this team needs to get bigger- if martin ever became the Gm - LOL this team would all be Tom Thumbs!!
You know... at the end of the day, coaching was the least of our problems. Too bad we had to turn it into a big fiasco.

But I guess the positive is that we now suddenly realize that size does matter right?
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
You and me have been saying this for a while.
Yup, you're one of the few guys on this forum who doesn't hate my posts.
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Problem is we have a GM that is interested in saving his own ass, and an owner without a clue so expect terrible things.
I know... PG is in panic mode. I guess the good news is that there's nothing more he can do so that should minimize the damage.

As for the owner... I haven't got a read on him yet. I suppose I can't blame him for letting his GM run with it. From that perspective it's a good thing that he's not a meddler if that was in fact the case.

He needs to fire PG though. If not before the end of the season then surely right after. At this point I have zero confidence that he can do the job. Time will tell I guess.
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Totally agree on all accouts as far as Brunet articles. I'm extremely nervous as well. Having said all of that, we have no choice. You just can't hire a guy now. Obviously makes no sense. So let's make the decisions we have to make (Gill, Moen, Kosty) and hope for the best. Lack of movement and to lose all those guys for nothing Gainey style...that's just not good enough either.
Like I said above, if Molson is going to keep PG until the end of the year that's fine. But tie his hands. Force him to be a seller and get the best prospects he can. Don't let him do anymore silly short term moves designed to get us into 8th for next year. Give him a directive and make sure that directive is clear.
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I'll be curious at the next press conference. The goose is cooked. The media can now bring clear numbers to prove the Habs have zero chance to make the playoffs (even if there's no statistical elimination):

a-Habs need to have more points than the other 29 teams for the rest of the way.and
b-For the same time period, Habs needs a better win/loss/OT ratio than the best team NHL was able to accomplish this season.

What's Gauthier gonna answer? We're still trying to make the playoffs?
Probably.

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:01 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
I'll be curious at the next press conference. The goose is cooked. The media can now bring clear numbers to prove the Habs have zero chance to make the playoffs (even if there's no statistical elimination):

a-Habs need to have more points than the other 29 teams for the rest of the way.and
b-For the same time period, Habs needs a better win/loss/OT ratio than the best team NHL was able to accomplish this season.

What's Gauthier gonna answer? We're still trying to make the playoffs?
Have you ever heard a GM say..."yeah we're done, we're gonna tank and go for 1st pick overall"?

Of course he's publically going to say they will fight tooth and nail until the season is done. I'm sure in talks with other GM's he is asking for good prospects or picks for the veterans.

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01-20-2012, 10:05 PM
  #103
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PG has done a terrible job with this team. How anyone can continue to defend him is unreal.

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01-20-2012, 10:16 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Have you ever heard a GM say..."yeah we're done, we're gonna tank and go for 1st pick overall"?

Of course he's publically going to say they will fight tooth and nail until the season is done. I'm sure in talks with other GM's he is asking for good prospects or picks for the veterans.
If we play as well as Detroit or St-Louis for the rest of the season, we'll end up with 89 points.

To make the playoffs we need to have more points than the Capitals in 8th spot, they're on their way to a 93 point season. We need 94 points.

So if we play as well as the 2 best teams in the NHL, we miss the playoffs by 5 points.

He can't say the Habs are trying to make the playoffs.

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01-20-2012, 10:20 PM
  #105
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"À regarder la feuille de route des dirigeants du Canadien ces dernières années, je ne veux pas voir Pierre Gauthier magasiner. Il n’a plus ma confiance. Parmi les mauvais coups, j’inclus ceux de Gainey puisqu’il était un conseiller influent de l’ancien DG du Canadien."
-Mathias Brunet

I couldn't agree more.. Gauthier is not a good GM by any means and whatever he touches turns to rust. I lost confidence in him last season. If anything Cole was a surprise for me.

Whatever the case, he's trading for underachieving player with bad multi-year contracts. Trades like Kaberle and Bourque might end up hurting the Habs for the next few seasons and the fact that they still have gomez is making it almost impossible to have a good team in the cap world.

He should have been told to stop doing any trades and keep him on board till the end of the season. Every day I know he's out there shopping makes my stomach turn too.. Habs will stay crappy till he's gone and it's sad to watch.. Unless Molson asked him to build a losing team for a few years so they can get a few good draft picks. Then Gauthier is doing an outstanding job...

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Originally Posted by yianik View Post
Except for Kaberle Ive been good with Pgs moves. In terms of us being shoppers , which terrifies me, that has to rest on Molsons shoulders. If Molson is saying I want play-offs then PG has no choice.
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Gauthier

From 1993 to 1995, he was the Assistant general manager for the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim. He left this position in 1995 to become the third general manager of the Ottawa Senators, signing a five-year contract. His time with Ottawa coincided with a turnaround in the team's fortunes. After the 1997–98 season he left his contract early, citing family issues, saying he would take time off to explore life away from hockey. Seventeen days later he was re-hired by the Ducks where he served as president and general manager.[2][1] He was sacked in 2002 after Anaheim missed the playoffs for three consecutive seasons.
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PG has done a terrible job with this team. How anyone can continue to defend him is unreal.
Exactly. He's done nothing but suck yet Molson keeps him on board. Either Molson wants the Habs to lose or Molson is the one that needs his head examined.. Like seriously, how many losing years do you need to prove just how much you suck... BUT he speaks French.


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01-20-2012, 10:24 PM
  #106
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It's all Gauthier? Unfortunately for him, he doesn't have a force field to deflect the boiling oil pouring down from the balcony the way an All-Star, Selke Trophy-winning HOF left wing does. He's not the one who hired/traded for an all-smurf line that draws elehantine salaries. He's not the one who sacrificed a first and a second for one season from Tanguay and a similar package for Lang. Hes not the one who hired Jacques Martin. He is the one who got rid of Hamrlik and brought in Emelin, Diaz, Cole, Desharnais, Pacioretty, and Eller. Oh well, such is life.

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01-20-2012, 10:30 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
It's all Gauthier? Unfortunately for him, he doesn't have a force field to deflect the boiling oil pouring down from the balcony the way an All-Star, Selke Trophy-winning HOF left wing does. He's not the one who hired/traded for an all-smurf line that draws elehantine salaries. He's not the one who sacrificed a first and a second for one season from Tanguay and a similar package for Lang. Hes not the one who hired Jacques Martin. He is the one who got rid of Hamrlik and brought in Emelin, Diaz, Cole, Desharnais, Pacioretty, and Eller. Oh well, such is life.
Again though... he did nothing but exacerbate the problem. We should've been getting younger and rebuilding. Instead it was MORE panic reactionary moves.

BTW, Kyle Turris (a prospect who was dealt for at not a huge price) is lighting it up in Ottawa. They're 12-2-2 since picking him up. THAT's the kind of gamble that we should be taking. YOUNG players with potential.

Turris could easily evolve into a bonafide number 1 center. That's exactly the kind of player that we should be trying to get. Instead we spin our wheels with crap like Kaberle.

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01-20-2012, 11:05 PM
  #108
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I sort of agree with some of the points Brunet makes but he looses a lot of credibility when he says he'd trade Plekanec for a first rounder choice.

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01-20-2012, 11:42 PM
  #109
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I sort of agree with some of the points Brunet makes but he looses a lot of credibility when he says he'd trade Plekanec for a first rounder choice.
Not what Brunet said. He said "un espoir de premier plan" which means a guy already picked that we know about and is a first-rate prospect. And I'm not against that idea. Depending on who is the prospect, of course.

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01-20-2012, 11:49 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
It's all Gauthier? Unfortunately for him, he doesn't have a force field to deflect the boiling oil pouring down from the balcony the way an All-Star, Selke Trophy-winning HOF left wing does. He's not the one who hired/traded for an all-smurf line that draws elehantine salaries. He's not the one who sacrificed a first and a second for one season from Tanguay and a similar package for Lang. Hes not the one who hired Jacques Martin. He is the one who got rid of Hamrlik and brought in Emelin, Diaz, Cole, Desharnais, Pacioretty, and Eller. Oh well, such is life.
How does Gauthier get any merit in Pacioretty and Desharnais? Congratulate the guy who picked Pacioretty. Or the guy who gave Desharnais the invititation. Or go even futher and congratulate the GM in place for getting them...but Gauthier gets the merit for calling them up? 'Cause if he doesn't, they would have never made it? The players themselves made it possible to graduate. And we were in need of their services. Cole? Totally. Emelin and Diaz? Surely, even if we don't know if Emelin had any hesitatin in coming, he's the one who made it happen. Eller. Well of course but that's in a trade we still don't know the outcome of even if we suspect it. But giving a GM the merit for having made the call to join the Habs? While both of them had ALREADY made it prior to Gauthier's arrival? That's stretching it at some point.

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Old
01-21-2012, 06:12 AM
  #111
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When PG brought the trade for Kaberle to Molson, he should have fired him on the spot. The whole organization is delusional.
That's when I thought "uh oh, they're keeping PG around!". You don't let add 4 mill on your budget if you don't support your GM.

It feels like Molson loves to keep Goat around because he's the perfect puppet and Molson wants to be in charge.

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01-21-2012, 06:15 AM
  #112
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That's when I thought "uh oh, they're keeping PG around!". You don't let add 4 mill on your budget if you don't support your GM.

It feels like Molson loves to keep Goat around because he's the perfect puppet and Molson wants to be in charge.
Cammy 3 games 2 goals /0 fight wins

Bourque 3 games 0 goals/1 fight wins



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01-21-2012, 06:50 AM
  #113
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Again though... he did nothing but exacerbate the problem. We should've been getting younger and rebuilding. Instead it was MORE panic reactionary moves.

BTW, Kyle Turris (a prospect who was dealt for at not a huge price) is lighting it up in Ottawa. They're 12-2-2 since picking him up. THAT's the kind of gamble that we should be taking. YOUNG players with potential.

Turris could easily evolve into a bonafide number 1 center. That's exactly the kind of player that we should be trying to get. Instead we spin our wheels with crap like Kaberle.
He did get younger, most of the players he added are young guys with size.

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01-21-2012, 07:12 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Again though... he did nothing but exacerbate the problem. We should've been getting younger and rebuilding. Instead it was MORE panic reactionary moves.

BTW, Kyle Turris (a prospect who was dealt for at not a huge price) is lighting it up in Ottawa. They're 12-2-2 since picking him up. THAT's the kind of gamble that we should be taking. YOUNG players with potential.

Turris could easily evolve into a bonafide number 1 center. That's exactly the kind of player that we should be trying to get. Instead we spin our wheels with crap like Kaberle.
I mostly agree with you but I don't think Ottawa paid a small price for Turris. The equivalent we would have had to pay seeing what they gave is something like Beaulieu++ and I much prefer keeping Beaulieu and getting an impact foward with our high pick.

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01-21-2012, 07:41 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
It's all Gauthier? Unfortunately for him, he doesn't have a force field to deflect the boiling oil pouring down from the balcony the way an All-Star, Selke Trophy-winning HOF left wing does. He's not the one who hired/traded for an all-smurf line that draws elehantine salaries. He's not the one who sacrificed a first and a second for one season from Tanguay and a similar package for Lang. Hes not the one who hired Jacques Martin. He is the one who got rid of Hamrlik and brought in Emelin, Diaz, Cole, Desharnais, Pacioretty, and Eller. Oh well, such is life.
Even after the fiasco that is this season, I'm still ambivalent towards Gauthier. I agree with you that most of the problems with this team were created under Bobsled Gainey's tenure.

Everyone brings up the Rivet & Kovalev trades. Well the old expression is even a broken clock is right twice a day and to prove that point the only reason the Kovalev trade worked out was that Sather was worse than Gainey at evaluating talent. Instead of Pleks he picked Balej when Bobsled gave him the choice.

So we're really only talking about the Rivet trade and he mucked up half that trade by giving away McDonagh. Other than that, Gainey was responsible for firing Julien the first slump they came to, did the same thing with Carbo and was lurking in the shadows when the same thing happened to Martin. The losing of Beauchemin, Robidas, and Bullion for nothing. Other losses: Komisarek, Kovalev, Koivu and other names I've forgotten.

The list of incompetent moves during his stay would make you wish for Gauthier to take over. The Ribeiro trade, the Gomez trade, the free agent signings that looked like a desperate clueless pointless attempt to put together a team of 22-23 players.

Molson needs to do only two things: fire Gainey and hire a new GM. Unfortunately, the trade deadline is a little over a month from now. That's just not enough time to interview, hire a new GM and give him enough time to study the team and decide what needs to go and what needs to stay.

And that means another winning season next year.

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01-21-2012, 07:51 AM
  #116
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Cammy 3 games 2 goals /0 fight wins

Bourque 3 games 0 goals/1 fight wins

lol, are you counting his shootout goal?

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01-21-2012, 08:22 AM
  #117
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He did get younger, most of the players he added are young guys with size.
Right, like Kaberle and Bourque... I can't wait to see what they do when they hit their prime.
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
I mostly agree with you but I don't think Ottawa paid a small price for Turris. The equivalent we would have had to pay seeing what they gave is something like Beaulieu++ and I much prefer keeping Beaulieu and getting an impact foward with our high pick.
I think Turris was too good for us to have ignored. He's got franchise center potential and we desperately need this.

I get that he would be a gamble and I know that he hasn't done much but the situation for him over there was very messed up. He's the kind of guy that we should be taking chances on. Maybe he'll never reach his potential and maybe he'll be a bust but I can't help but think that he's going to be really good and I'm going to be upset watching him develop in Ottawa knowing we could've taken a better shot at him. If we're going to gamble it's got to be on prospects like Turris with huge upside rather than vets like Bourque who've already shown themselves to be inconsistent.

And before anyone yells 'hindsight is 20/20" I was saying this back when Turris was available.

As for what Phoenix would've accepted... I don't know. They took a prospect and a 2nd round pick for him. Maybe we could've offered a vet and a 2nd. I'm not sure where their heads are at. I just feel like a prospect like Turris was worth taking the risk on. We need to start making these kinds of moves. Some will pan out and some won't. But it's unacceptable for us not to try.

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01-21-2012, 08:25 AM
  #118
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Not what Brunet said. He said "un espoir de premier plan" which means a guy already picked that we know about and is a first-rate prospect. And I'm not against that idea. Depending on who is the prospect, of course.
Not quite... In the comments section, he added this to a post:

"Je dis qu’on peut se débarrasser de Plekanec et de son contrat à long terme si on peut obtenir un choix de première ronde ou un espoir de premier plan."

I guess we're both right... Sort of.

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01-21-2012, 08:29 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Right, like Kaberle and Bourque... I can't wait to see what they do when they hit their prime.

I think Turris was too good for us to have ignored. He's got franchise center potential and we desperately need this.

I get that he would be a gamble and I know that he hasn't done much but the situation for him over there was very messed up. He's the kind of guy that we should be taking chances on. Maybe he'll never reach his potential and maybe he'll be a bust but I can't help but think that he's going to be really good and I'm going to be upset watching him develop in Ottawa knowing we could've taken a better shot at him. If we're going to gamble it's got to be on prospects like Turris with huge upside rather than vets like Bourque who've already shown themselves to be inconsistent.

And before anyone yells 'hindsight is 20/20" I was saying this back when Turris was available.

As for what Phoenix would've accepted... I don't know. They took a prospect and a 2nd round pick for him. Maybe we could've offered a vet and a 2nd. I'm not sure where their heads are at. I just feel like a prospect like Turris was worth taking the risk on. We need to start making these kinds of moves. Some will pan out and some won't. But it's unacceptable for us not to try.
More assumptions. Who says PG didn't make an offer for Turris and Maloney simply preferred the Sens offer?

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01-21-2012, 08:36 AM
  #120
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More assumptions. Who says PG didn't make an offer for Turris and Maloney simply preferred the Sens offer?
I'm not even making an assumption. You could very well be right.

I just hate the fact Turris goes over to Ottawa for what he did. I feel like we have enough defense prospects that we could've given one up or maybe added a vet... bottom line is that we're really good at getting leftover pieces and not so good at getting elite prospects.

That leads me to believe that we're only interested in getting the leftovers.

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01-21-2012, 08:38 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Go Habs Go View Post
What is with Montreal's media and their need to trash people to get readers? I'm not defending Gauthier but enough is enough, how many times a day do they have to cram this trash down our throats? We get it! The team is not winning, you don't like Gauthier! How about being a little creative with your writing?
Hence the circus Spacek is referring to...

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01-21-2012, 08:39 AM
  #122
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Right, like Kaberle and Bourque... I can't wait to see what they do when they hit their prime.

I think Turris was too good for us to have ignored. He's got franchise center potential and we desperately need this.

I get that he would be a gamble and I know that he hasn't done much but the situation for him over there was very messed up. He's the kind of guy that we should be taking chances on. Maybe he'll never reach his potential and maybe he'll be a bust but I can't help but think that he's going to be really good and I'm going to be upset watching him develop in Ottawa knowing we could've taken a better shot at him. If we're going to gamble it's got to be on prospects like Turris with huge upside rather than vets like Bourque who've already shown themselves to be inconsistent.

And before anyone yells 'hindsight is 20/20" I was saying this back when Turris was available.

As for what Phoenix would've accepted... I don't know. They took a prospect and a 2nd round pick for him. Maybe we could've offered a vet and a 2nd. I'm not sure where their heads are at. I just feel like a prospect like Turris was worth taking the risk on. We need to start making these kinds of moves. Some will pan out and some won't. But it's unacceptable for us not to try.
Turris had no more upside than Plekanec or Eller. If we are to make a tarde for a center it has to be better than what we have. What's the point of Having Turris or Eller on the 4th line.

You're ridiculous, you look at one trade and say we're not getting younger. The Cammalleri trade made us younger, Bourque is the same age, but we gained 2.7 mil cap room PLUS a 2nd and a solid prospect. 2 weeks ago most people would ahve been ecstatic at a 2nd and a solid prospect.

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01-21-2012, 09:04 AM
  #123
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Molson why are you letting Gauthier acquire more veteran players like Kaberle and Bourque,to try and finish in 8th place even if you get 8th place which you won't that is not success,Gauthier and Gainey have been here for 9 years start competing for STANLEY CUPS not 8th place you losers.

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01-21-2012, 09:08 AM
  #124
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Molson start rebuilding trade Plekanec and Gill to philly for Sean Couturier,trade Kostitsyn to dallas for Alex Chiasson,trade moen and trade Erik Cole his value is highest now he has been a medicre 50-60 point player his whole career he is now 33 he isn't going to get any better.

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01-21-2012, 09:21 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I'm not even making an assumption. You could very well be right.

I just hate the fact Turris goes over to Ottawa for what he did. I feel like we have enough defense prospects that we could've given one up or maybe added a vet... bottom line is that we're really good at getting leftover pieces and not so good at getting elite prospects.

That leads me to believe that we're only interested in getting the leftovers.
Yeah. After re-reading your post, I guess that wasn't an assumption.

It's not easy to make deals in that league, when there are another 28 GM in competition and they're all looking for that deal that will make their team better. As for Turris, I'm not sure he was what the Habs needed. This team already has a plethora of 2nd line centers with Plekanec, Desharnais and Eller (not there yet but should be some day). What they need is a bona fide first line center just like the Sens have with Spezza. In fact, the play of Spezza is the reason why the Sens are where they are. He's been amazing.

The thing is, getting that first line center is extremely difficult. If PG manages to pry a player like Getzlaf for Plekanec ++, I'd be all over that but I'm not holding my breath on him being able to achieve that.

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