Trade hime already if he as any value. The Habs should not give him a long term contract cause he will sit on it and do nothing has we know how lazy he is.
When you say we, are you referring to you and Benoit Brunet? Don't lump me in with your stupid thoughts, ok?
I'd give him quite comfortably 4 year 15-15.5m and run.
everyday i come in, and i'm terrified when i see 'confirmed with link' especially with a half-glance of kostitsyn lol. but ya seeing those prefixed threads is going to be nerve racking from now to the deadline.
All young prospects have no value when traded by Montreal, but on most part become valuable for their new teams. Someone in organization has to give the answers why so.
I'm not sure you'll get an accurate, detailed answer from anyone while they are in the organization. Perhaps you might from someone after they leave the org when they don't have to be as careful with what they say.
I expect there are a number of different factors that help explain why this is (player development, coaching, etc). As a starting point, I'll offer up the suggestion that expectations from various different groups of people in/around the team have a big impact on the development of young players with the Habs. The current team is a good starting point IMO.
At this time, management has to decide how to play out the rest of the season: sell veterans and tank for the future, add players to try and salvage something now or stick with what we have and see what happens. I honestly can't see them trying to tank. It's too defeatist and goes against the standards the organization tries to set IMO. Which leaves us trying to get something from the season whether we add new players or not. Every season the aim is to do as well as possible but the playoffs is the least they aim for and there is always pressure to attain that standard. The org holds the team to that standard, as do the media and the fans and Montreal isn't a city where missing the playoffs for a few years in a row is acceptable, even if it might pay off down the line. So the team always has to succeed now, which is an environment that won't be advantageous to all young players trying to break into the league.
Guys like O'Byrne, D'Agostini, maybe Streit as well to some extent, are capable players. Not superstars but they have NHL abilities even if it took them a little while to reach that level. In a pressure cooker like Montreal, where success is constantly required, if things don't go well and you need to make sure you at least make the playoffs, I think management/coaches are more willing to put their faith in veterans who know the league than younger guys finding their footing. With a veteran, you know what they can bring and when they can bring it whereas with less experienced players there are more questions to be asked about their play in the NHL than can be answered. So they go with the vets at the expense of sinking or swimming with the youth on the fringes of the team. The more talented youth are able to establish themselves within the team a bit more and show their worth or are giving more opportunities due to their potential. But the borderline guys either have to show they can get it done or they find themselves elsewhere, where they are given better conditions in which to adapt to and develop in the NHL.
Then there are the other group of prospects who may have the talent but do something(s) which lead to their character/maturity being questioned and they are shipped out because they are not deemed to be a good fit for the team. Maybe they aren't suitable for the atmosphere within the team/within the city, maybe they just make a bad judgement call on an issue, maybe they aren't developed on or off the ice well enough, but they find themselves elsewhere, typically in surroundings where there isn't as much pressure (hello Dallas, Nashville) or where they can be put in a situation where they are more likely to succeed (and hello to Toronto too) and they develop their game to a higher level, leaving us selling them at a lower value than they prove to have once they are established within the league.
I think the org could do a much better job developing and shielding the younger players on the team. I remember Gainey calling out the fans who got on Brisebois' case, giving him some backing when the perception outside the team was widely that he was nothing but trash and didn't deserve a break due to his salary. I don't think the youngsters in recent years have had as much support in public as the vets get when they should have more IMO. I recall Plek getting some support (when someone asked it Plek could get Kovalev going, they were told it was Kovy's job to get Plek going) and Price (with the whole thoroughbred thing).
What about the Kostitsyn brothers with the whole darkest day issue, maybe there was public support from the team on that one, but I don't recall it. Could the Grabs issue have been downplayed more and resolved within the team or was there more to that one than I remember? How about O'Byrne? A young guy like that, trying to learn NHL D in Montreal! His play is slipping and he scores an own goal that has fans calling for his head, saying that he is a disgrace to the bleu, blanc et rouge. Of course, what the fans don't know but the team does, is that his mother, on the other side of the country, has just been diagnosed with cancer and this kid is trying to be a pro, do his job and deal with what he is going through. There were about 2/3rds of the season left IIRC and he never once faced the media after a game and explained what he was going through. He kept his head down, worked hard and tried to focus on what he could do without making (perfectly reasonable) excuses and didn't mention it until the Habs season was over. I don't recall anyone jumping to his defense and telling the media/fans to back the **** off. Wouldn't have been difficult to do without giving away what he was going through.
Anyways, just some thoughts why we see an improvement in a number of the young players we send/give away. We don't just expect success, we demand it. And when we are on the bubble and have injuries, we are more likely to get the results we want this season from experienced players than young players. Also, because we don't always have a powerhouse team like Detroit/Pens/Boston of late, we can't always afford to insulate young borderline talent (or talent that takes longer to develop) and they have to prove their worth or fall by the wayside in favour of veterans and re-stocking the prospect pool.
That's a good post Qui Gon Dave and I mostly agree to that. I have many friends with kids coming close to were they will be starting a career of pro hockey player, some of them will make it to NHL most of them won't. But the important thing is I don't hear people want to play for Canadiens or their kids to be drafted by Montreal. Mostly because what you said, noone want to be part of circus
The fans actually decide what a player should be, and later hate them for not living up to FANS expectations. That's an absurd. My favorite saying is you need to have right tools to get the job done.
Back to AK. Does he has a potential to be 70-80 points guy? He definitely does. Was he given a proper tools to get the job done?
And yet he has never palyed alongside anyone so talented as Kovalev since. That line was fury...
Being on the Canadiens has done nothing but crush his confidence as a player. It was his one opportunity to shine and boy did he grab it. When we replaced Kovy with Cammalleri, the line seemed like it didn't miss a beat almost. But **** happened since then and Akost has been relegated to a third liner.
I don't realy mind because he CAN play on the third line because of his unique skillset but he can be a lot more than that. I think 40 pts is selling him short, you're basically counting on the minimum safe production from him. He's still young, and seems to have figured out his role on the team, so I don't think the pressure on him to produce is as big as before so he can be content to produce in the role he is given and that's a good thing, with the potential to explode at any given moment.
Sign this guy asap.
Very true. Good post. He plays at his downside now, still a 20 gaol guy, he's adjusted to the city, and he seems to have calmed the party **** down.
Then: He's got a big big upside. He's only 26. You never know. Therefore sign the kid now. I agree.
i haven't realized: UFA at 26? fair to say he was rushed to the NHL? either way, 26 is not even his prime yet. re-sign the *******!
NHL forwards reach their prime from 22 to 25 usually.
I don't think he has a level to go to.
People keep bringing up his production and cap hit...the 2 things not brought up that will be a big factor...
1-we have a pile if young forwards coming, LeBlanc(half to a full year away), Kristo, Bournival, Gallagher, Holland, Quailer plus Engqvist Palushaj. If you re-sign both AK and Moen you have 6 top 9 wingers locked in and no room for young guys.
2-with so many teams in the running and few sellers, a guy like AK could get us a big return like with Toronto and Kaberle last year. Nothing prevents us from re-signing him(or another comparable(Ruutu etc) after July 1st...or signing a temporary guy for a year until the young guys are ready and using part of the cap hit on Suter/Gleason/Allen etc on defense.
NHL forwards reach their prime from 22 to 25 usually.
I don't think he has a level to go to.
People keep bringing up his production and cap hit...the 2 things not brought up that will be a big factor...
1-we have a pile if young forwards coming, LeBlanc(half to a full year away), Kristo, Bournival, Gallagher, Holland, Quailer plus Engqvist Palushaj. If you re-sign both AK and Moen you have 6 top 9 wingers locked in and no room for young guys.
2-with so many teams in the running and few sellers, a guy like AK could get us a big return like with Toronto and Kaberle last year. Nothing prevents us from re-signing him(or another comparable(Ruutu etc) after July 1st...or signing a temporary guy for a year until the young guys are ready and using part of the cap hit on Suter/Gleason/Allen etc on defense.
Getting rid of a guy like kostitsyn for leblanc, kristo, etc. Puts us one step back. Here we have a guy that can for sure score 20+ with limited PP time and hits like a truck... Get rid of Moen but keep Kostitsyn; I guarantee that a player like Moen has far more value than Kostitsyn at the deadline.
Really? The players that have been drafted in the 1st round before and after have already made much bigger impact on their team and have been stars for years now. It's going to be 9 years this summer he has been drafted and his best season in Montreal has been 50pts. I think it's normal to be expecting more from Andrei especially after this long
The players that have been drafted in the 1st round before and after have already made much bigger impact on their team and have been stars for years now.
How many have done it in Montreal? Or maybe other teams should be a key word?
You should check yours. With a few exceptions, most players are in their prime by 25, the higher drafted ones start their prime at 21-22. The more "developmental" ones start at 24-25. AK had his best year at 22 with 26 goals and 53 points.
Getting rid of a guy like kostitsyn for leblanc, kristo, etc. Puts us one step back. Here we have a guy that can for sure score 20+ with limited PP time and hits like a truck... Get rid of Moen but keep Kostitsyn; I guarantee that a player like Moen has far more value than Kostitsyn at the deadline.
With guys like Cole Pacioretty and Bourque coming in, having a guy that can score 20 and play physical is not the be all and end all.
For 2012-2013 you can sign a player for 1 year 1.5-2 mil and then if your young forwards are ready for 2013-2014 you have a cheap alternative.
Moen brings toughness and contributes on the PK.
How much re-signing both will cost is also a factor plus what they bring in return.
The O'Byrne handling was an f'ing tragedy, one of the worst examples of player management from our increasingly clownish org I have seen. No patience, cursory look at the facts, no willingness to develop someone who was playing in a position of extreme need.
AK might sign here for less, but somehow I doubt that would stay the same if he's dealt and look to resign him after the season. He's a useful 3rd liner who, when he plays with energy, is a pretty good player; very inconsistent effort level. He seems to get a real charge out of playing beside Eller, be nice to get them a big strong winger with a bit more o-upside than Moen to round out the line, and not shift them around period-to-period but let them gel for a long stretch.
Of course we all know how patient our management is...
The O'Byrne handling was an f'ing tragedy, one of the worst examples of player management from our increasingly clownish org I have seen. No patience, cursory look at the facts, no willingness to develop someone who was playing in a position of extreme need.
AK might sign here for less, but somehow I doubt that would stay the same if he's dealt and look to resign him after the season. He's a useful 3rd liner who, when he plays with energy, is a pretty good player; very inconsistent effort level. He seems to get a real charge out of playing beside Eller, be nice to get them a big strong winger with a bit more o-upside than Moen to round out the line, and not shift them around period-to-period but let them gel for a long stretch.
Of course we all know how patient our management is...
When he is with Eller they seem to have one very good game then disappear again.
2007-2008: 6th in points on the team (0,68 ppg)
2008 playoffs: 4th
2008-2009: 5th (0,55 ppg)
2009 playoffs: 6th
2009-2010: 7th (0,56 ppg)
2010 playoffs: 6th
2010-2011: 4th (0,55 ppg)
2011 playoffs: 7th
2011-2012: 6th (0,55 ppg)
He has never been one of the team's leading scorers and his ppg, while remarkably consistent, is firmly stuck at about 45 points per 82 games. Using past seasons' stats, that puts him at about 115th-120th among forwards for the whole league IF he plays a full season. That is about the production of an average 2nd liner, or less if he's injured like last year.
Can the team afford to pay a guy like that 4 million? Looking at the list of NHL salaries, the 30th most highly paid RW earned about 3 million in 2010-2011. So I'd say that anything above what he's making right now would be a mistake.
