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VAN/PIT: Mason Raymond for Matt Niskanen

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Old
01-20-2012, 07:39 PM
  #26
Riptide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
Alberts has 1 year left after this but Sulzer is an upcoming UFA, Alberts is $1.1m per, Sulzer is like $700k I think
Zero interest in Alberts. We have Engelland who basically plays the same game, who's better and cheaper. And the Pens' farm team has performed really well with the ton of blueline injuries this year.

Ideally they'd move Martin and his 5m hit for some winger, and use the savings to resign Neal and Niskanen. However if that's not possible, then going Niskanen for Raymond might work out alright.

I do like Weise though. Him Raymond and a late pick (say a 5th) for Niskanen and Asham I'd do.

Nisky's next contract is likely 1.8-2.5 range depending on term.
Raymonds (as stated above) is likely 2.7-3.3 depending on term.

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Old
01-20-2012, 07:48 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
I do like Weise though. Him Raymond and a late pick (say a 5th) for Niskanen and Asham I'd do
I would offer Oreskovich + Weise + Raymond for Niskanen, Adams, Asham

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01-20-2012, 07:58 PM
  #28
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Meh... Don't want to move Raymond too bad. I'd rather move Ballard for a pick and acquire some UFA dmen for picks. This would be plan B for me.

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01-20-2012, 07:59 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
I pretty much proposed the same thing awhile ago, but it was an "IF" the Pens somehow miss the playoffs and I did

Raymond + Oreskovich + Weise for Niskanen, Adams + Asham

It basically just gave Pits some younger bottom 6 guys who could replace some of the lost grit for Pitsburgh but in a longer term way.
Would rather just do Raymond for Niskanen. We're replacing grit for grit with the others, I'd rather just keep the grit we have. If you must have one, I'd prefer it be Asham.. but not both.

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01-20-2012, 08:22 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
I would offer Oreskovich + Weise + Raymond for Niskanen, Adams, Asham
I don't know much about Weise or Oreskovich, but I wouldn't want the Pens to give up two great 4th liners, especially Adams. I don't think the Pens will miss the playoffs, and even if they do they won't be out of the race by the deadline.

I agree with others saying that a simple deal is better, Raymond for Niskanen straight up seems easiest and simple enough to work.

If there is a need to add, I'd keep Adams. He's great for the Pens.

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Old
01-20-2012, 08:24 PM
  #31
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What the hell is this?!?!?!!?!?! Logic & a fair trade proposal on HF

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01-20-2012, 08:36 PM
  #32
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This has been talked a million times in many different threads

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:22 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
Good value, but the idea of playing Lovejoy regularly concerns me. If the Pens could add another defenseman I'd do it.
Gleason from Carolina.

Raymond for Niskanen

Ruutu, Gleason for Tangradi+ something else.

Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Raymond-Staal-Ruutu

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:28 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
To Pit- Raymond, Alberts
To Van- Niskanen, Asham

The Canucks fill 2 needs while Pittsburgh gets back a very physical dman that can play a regular shift on the bottom pairing.
Problem is that we already have a very physical dman who can play a bigger role on the bottom pairing in Deryk Engelland, and Engelland is a much better defender than Alberts is. We need a guy who can compliment Engelland, not a lesser version of himself. When Lovejoy was playing well last year he covered that, but he fell off a cliff, partially in thanks to constantly getting injured. Niskanen has been that this year. The fact Alberts is signed through next year only adds to the logjam issue we're facing next year.

As a straight one-for-one swap it's definitely worth considering. If nothing else the value is spot on. It just creates a hole for the Penguins that would need to be addressed via a rental, and Shero has basically said that every prospect aside from Eric Tangradi is untouchable and the draft is in Pittsburgh so I wouldn't expect the Penguins to shed too many picks this year (I could see Gill for a 2nd in 2013, though), so that really limits the trade pieces out there for acquiring a rental.


I wouldn't be surprised if a rights swap happened before the draft, though. As much as I've grown to like the guy it's hard to imagine Niskanen being a Penguin next year with 6 guys on one-way deals, Strait and Bortuzzo needing to clear waivers (Bortuzzo wouldn't and I doubt Strait would), and Simon Despres looking like a legitimate NHLer right now...I don't want to see any of those guys getting their feet wet in the playoffs though and Ben Lovejoy is nothing more than a 7th defenseman until further notice.


Gleason and Ruutu would be an interesting thing to explore on the side, though I imagine that would be difficult to pull off unless Rutherford has a hard on for Eric Tangradi.

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Old
01-20-2012, 10:34 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Gleason from Carolina.

Raymond for Niskanen

Ruutu, Gleason for Tangradi+ something else.

Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Raymond-Staal-Ruutu
Unless Sid takes a step back, I don't think Shero will be planning on using his cap space.

I do like the idea of Mason Raymond on this team though. His speed alone could be money with Sid.

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Old
01-21-2012, 12:19 AM
  #36
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What would it take on top of Raymond to get Tangredi with Niskanen?

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01-21-2012, 12:27 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetangBrassard23 View Post
I don't know much about Weise or Oreskovich, but I wouldn't want the Pens to give up two great 4th liners, especially Adams. I don't think the Pens will miss the playoffs, and even if they do they won't be out of the race by the deadline.

I agree with others saying that a simple deal is better, Raymond for Niskanen straight up seems easiest and simple enough to work.

If there is a need to add, I'd keep Adams. He's great for the Pens.
I know the Pens give up 2 solid 4th liners, but I think the value is very slightly better for Pittsburgh.

Penguins get 2 younger 4th liners who could play longer term for Pittsburgh.

I know its a couple solid character guys to take off the Pitts roster, but would be a nice piece for Van.

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01-21-2012, 12:27 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ohnoeszz View Post
What would it take on top of Raymond to get Tangredi with Niskanen?
Kesler and a 2012 1st round pick.

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01-21-2012, 12:53 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Kesler and a 2012 1st round pick.

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01-21-2012, 12:56 AM
  #40
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If the Pens can get another Dman to replace Nisky I'd do it.

I'd love to see:

This deal

Gill for 3rd rounder

Tangradi+ for Ruutu

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01-21-2012, 01:02 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoeszz View Post
What would it take on top of Raymond to get Tangredi with Niskanen?
Probably more than Vancouver would be willing to part with.

I'm open to trading Tangradi in a package for a high-end talent (I'm thinking Ruutu, but Carolina wants to package him with Gleason so that's probably a non-starter unless Rutherford backs down from that stance)...he's not enough to get one on his own but he's certainly good enough of a prospect to be in a package. If you're talking about in addition to Raymond/Niskanen swap you're basically starting from scratch as the value on those two is essentially equal in the eyes of just about everyone here and I really don't see anything larger happening between the two squads. The Canucks best trade piece is a young goalie, something the Penguins have absolutely no need for, and aside from that we're talking about two playoff teams that are going for it all this year...a one-for-one deal is really the only realistic way these teams make a deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
I know the Pens give up 2 solid 4th liners, but I think the value is very slightly better for Pittsburgh.

Penguins get 2 younger 4th liners who could play longer term for Pittsburgh.

I know its a couple solid character guys to take off the Pitts roster, but would be a nice piece for Van.
Getting players that can play longer term is of no issue for the Penguins...Shero specializes in grinders, and as such the Penguins literally have too many of them in the system to give proper ice time to. Adams has 2 Cup rings, one with us, and Asham is a traveled vet who is very good at what he does...they can be moved for the right price, but I really don't see any reason why Shero would move them. No one is going to overpay for Craig Adams, and with him on for another year on a near-minimum cap hit/salary there's no reason for Shero to trade him. Shero likes his veteran depth too much to really think about it. If the Penguins somehow fell out of contention in the next month then yeah, Asham certainly would be on the table...but that's not happening. Even with all the injuries the Penguins have had Joe Vitale was a healthy scratch for 3 consecutive games before Asham's concussion, and Vitale is every bit what Max Talbot was when he broke into the league.

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01-21-2012, 01:05 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerousdan85 View Post
I know the Pens give up 2 solid 4th liners, but I think the value is very slightly better for Pittsburgh.

Penguins get 2 younger 4th liners who could play longer term for Pittsburgh.

I know its a couple solid character guys to take off the Pitts roster, but would be a nice piece for Van.
Nope. We have no reason to trade two grinders for two other grinders. Age is not a factor for the Pens and their grinders. When Adams and Asham are done/gone, two more will be plugged in and they'll be awesome. Plenty will be ready when that time comes.

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01-21-2012, 01:06 AM
  #43
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Atleast you didn't take me seriously.

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01-21-2012, 01:16 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Getting players that can play longer term is of no issue for the Penguins...Shero specializes in grinders, and as such the Penguins literally have too many of them in the system to give proper ice time to. Adams has 2 Cup rings, one with us, and Asham is a traveled vet who is very good at what he does...they can be moved for the right price, but I really don't see any reason why Shero would move them. No one is going to overpay for Craig Adams, and with him on for another year on a near-minimum cap hit/salary there's no reason for Shero to trade him. Shero likes his veteran depth too much to really think about it. If the Penguins somehow fell out of contention in the next month then yeah, Asham certainly would be on the table...but that's not happening. Even with all the injuries the Penguins have had Joe Vitale was a healthy scratch for 3 consecutive games before Asham's concussion, and Vitale is every bit what Max Talbot was when he broke into the league.
Why not? I think a deal of Raymond + Sulzer for Niskanen + Asham would be beneficial to both teams. Asham probably has slightly more value so we could throw in a 5th if necessary. Sulzer can play either side, throw the body a bit and make a decent outlet pass. Solid at everything, good at nothing, occasionally prone to a dumb defensive zone turnover.

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01-21-2012, 01:18 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campoli2Burrows View Post
Why not? I think a deal of Raymond + Sulzer for Niskanen + Asham would be beneficial to both teams. Asham probably has slightly more value so we could throw in a 5th if necessary. Sulzer can play either side, throw the body a bit and make a decent outlet pass. Solid at everything, good at nothing, occasionally prone to a dumb defensive zone turnover.
Because Sulzer isn't better than Simon Despres or Brian Strait and would be completely redundant past this year anyway.

Sulzer just doesn't add anything to the Penguins that we don't already have a lot of.


And the 'that's not happening' line is about the Penguins being out of contention anyway. We're 6 points out of first place and it's January 20th...the trade deadline is in about five weeks, with nearly a week of that being off because of the All Star Break...the Penguins would basically have to lose for an entire month to be out of contention at the deadline...that's not happening. Playoff teams don't trade guys like Arron Asham, they trade for guys like Arron Asham. I totally understand the Canucks desire to upgrade the 4th line, but that will have to come in another deal with another team...hell, it may not even be in a trade. We got Craig Adams on the deadline three years ago on waivers (thanks Chicago!).


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Old
01-21-2012, 01:20 AM
  #46
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The Canucks can't really afford to go after a defenceman without really knowing how their crazy coach will utilize him.

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01-21-2012, 01:37 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Because Sulzer isn't better than Simon Despres or Brian Strait and would be completely redundant past this year anyway.

Sulzer just doesn't add anything to the Penguins that we don't already have a lot of.


And the 'that's not happening' line is about the Penguins being out of contention anyway. We're 6 points out of first place and it's January 20th...the trade deadline is in about five weeks, with nearly a week of that being off because of the All Star Break...the Penguins would basically have to lose for an entire month to be out of contention at the deadline...that's not happening. Playoff teams don't trade guys like Arron Asham, they trade for guys like Arron Asham. I totally understand the Canucks desire to upgrade the 4th line, but that will have to come in another deal with another team.
Alright cool thanks for the informative response. Haha threads have been unusually polite lately, it's a bit strange.

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01-21-2012, 01:47 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Campoli2Burrows View Post
Alright cool thanks for the informative response. Haha threads have been unusually polite lately, it's a bit strange.
That happens when people make reasonable requests, as opposed to something like Neal for Raymond and a 5th...

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01-21-2012, 01:50 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
To Pit- Raymond, Alberts
To Van- Niskanen, Asham

The Canucks fill 2 needs while Pittsburgh gets back a very physical dman that can play a regular shift on the bottom pairing.
Please?


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01-21-2012, 02:59 AM
  #50
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forget niskanen, get paul martin..

make a trade similar to the ballard deal, and especially useful since the draft is in pittsburgh this year..

grabner, bernier, 1st for ballard, oreskovich

raymond, alberts, 1st for martin, tangradi


pitts gets to reuinte the U. of Minnesota-Duluth 2006/07 1-2 in scoring combo.

raymond and niskanen..

to think people are trying to trade them for each other.

they get a servicable dman in alberts signed through next year. some of the prospects can try to fill martins role, and it doesnt hurt andy to sit out a game or two while the rooks work out the kinks.

with the draft being at the new arena in pitts, it wouldnt hurt to have another 1st rounder.


nucks get to reuinte best friends martin and ballard, and maybe just the kickstart ballard needs.

hamhuis-bieksa and ballard-martin would be a minute munching combo

tangradi is young still, pretty big and can be the project we seem to always be looking for on the 4th line for now.

hamhuis-bieksa
ballard-martin
edler-salo
rome-sulzer

thats a hell of a defense

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