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Old
01-21-2012, 12:17 PM
  #101
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I am fine with that when Asham comes back, but when Staal comes back that would mean Park is sitting too. I don't think ET deserves to be in over Park
Agreed. For all the gripe individuals on the board give Richard Park for his lack of fit in the system, playing with players around his age (Cooke, Sullivan) has been good for the man. He's worth his contract.

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01-21-2012, 01:12 PM
  #102
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Malkin on a 5 game point streak as it stands.

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01-21-2012, 01:22 PM
  #103
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Malkin on a 5 game point streak as it stands.
What a coincidence, pens on a 5 game win streak

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01-21-2012, 01:45 PM
  #104
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= : I cannot abide that no matter the score and opposition, Fleury is usually always insulated from criticism. The first goal is one you expect a good goalie to get to, particularly one as fast as Fleury. The second is not on him, but a rebound you'd like to have kicked elsewhere and then the Kostitsyn snipe high glove.... good shot, but not exactly in close or highly screened. Add the habitual couple of times where big chances result from his less than stellar puck handling behind the net, and it is impossible understand those who put him as a + in this one. = .... at most. But I suppose it is the same old discussion.
Against my better judgment I'll address this:

1st goal was an incredibly lucky bounce off a re-direction. Because it deflected off Engo MAF had to find it (when it goes off MAF he knows where it's going so he can react to the next shot much quicker) and by the time he did it was past him. You have any idea how hard it is to pick up that puck off Engo. Had it been off MAFs pad you would have a point, but it wasn't.

2nd goal was a 2 on 1 where the Dman neither stopped the pass nor tyed up the trailer so it was essentially a 2 on 0. The shot was about 5 feet from MAF giving him very little time to make the save, letalone kick the rebound to the corner. Again, it's obvious you've never played goal before if you expect MAF to do anything else on that play.

3rd goal was a very good shot between the hashes where MAF was screened by Z. If you watch the replay from behind the net you'll see MAF looking right around Z when the puck goes left over the glove.

4th goal was just atrocious D


This makes me think fondly of the MAF game tracker thread where you wanted to trade him and have BJ be the starter, lol.

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01-21-2012, 01:54 PM
  #105
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This makes me think fondly of the MAF game tracker thread where you wanted to trade him and have BJ be the starter, lol.
man the start of last year was hilarious. Dump Fleury to the minors and fire Byslma.

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01-21-2012, 02:33 PM
  #106
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Malkin for wingers!


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01-21-2012, 02:47 PM
  #107
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I prefer P.K. Slewban, but that's just me....

+ Letang - For being awesome

+ Malkin - For being a machine

+ Dustin Jeffrey - What a steal he's become. When Staal comes back, Staal needs to be #2 and this kid needs to get on someone's wing. He's got a great skill set and he constantly works to progress. First, it was his skating then boom! He works hard to become better. Then it was his stick skills and over the last 2 years, he's become an offensive skilled player. If Jeffrey can work on getting bigger and being more aggressive, he's going to be a talented dude.

+ Tangradi - Deserves love. He definitely showed off that hype he's been giving. He needs to be on that ice more than other certain wingers *COUGH* SULLY *COUGH*

- Sully - Doesn't even need to be mentioned

- MAF - He didn't do well, but it's probably got to do with him being tired. I can't remember him being this average any other time all year...

- HCDB - Only reason is because he let Flower play. How do you expect him to be healthy for Washington tomorrow?

- P.K. Slewban -


I'm glad Kunitz wasn't hurt... Habs are starting to get on my **** list. First Patches, now Slewban?

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01-21-2012, 06:07 PM
  #108
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Against my better judgment .............

This makes me think fondly of the MAF game tracker thread where you wanted to trade him and have BJ be the starter, lol.
If you had any judgement at all you wouldn't ascribe something to me I've never said.

But yes, I have certainly questioned whether tying up 5 million in a goalie as imperfect as Fleury is a good idea. I believe he is more a beneficiary of being on a good team with no legit competition for him than he is a great goalie. That at a time where he had just been the greatest reason we lost to Montreal in the playoffs and followed up by downright disastrous goal tending to start last season. Then he finished the regular season really, really well for which I praised him like most others, and then he was second best in the match up against Roloson and we lost a series we led 3-1.

Anyway, this season I have generally backed him as having been good, though not elite. Nothing bad about being in the upper half among starters, but I get down on reading you and a few others go through every wall to defend him even in his worst games. This wasn't one of them, but if this was a good performance from a supposed top tier goalie in your view, I don't think you are watching a lot of hockey.

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01-21-2012, 06:20 PM
  #109
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What didn't they show? I was watching and I saw everything. Except for that brief moment where the screen was frozen on Geno's face.
Its nit picking but they never start a period on time and it annoys the heck out of me.

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01-21-2012, 06:26 PM
  #110
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If you had any judgement at all you wouldn't ascribe something to me I've never said.

But yes, I have certainly questioned whether tying up 5 million in a goalie as imperfect as Fleury is a good idea. I believe he is more a beneficiary of being on a good team with no legit competition than he is a great goalie.

Anyway, this season I have generally backed him as having been good, but I get down on reading you and a few others go through every wall to defend him even in his worst games. This wasn't one of them, but if this was a good performance from a supposed top tier goalie in your view, I don't think you are watching a lot of hockey.
You were one of the most vocal anti-MAF posters in that thread ans suggested moving him in a number of posts. And as much as you "get down on" poster like me defending MAF, I'm sure it doesn't compare to how upsetting it is to see the same few posters rip MAF for the complete wrong reasons.

The difference between us (other than the obvious) is I have (on a number of occasions) gone though games and explained in detail the play MAF made and whether or no I felt it was a good play. You, on the other hand, like to just state the generic "glove side!!" or "rebound!!!" without really looking at the play from what MAF was seeing (fully how you deleted my breakdown when you quoted my post, maybe you couldn't refute anything I said??).

And for a laugh (probably not for you) here's the MAF game tracker thread. Pure Gold, lol.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...y+game+tracker

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01-21-2012, 06:52 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
You were one of the most vocal anti-MAF posters in that thread ans suggested moving him in a number of posts.

Indeed, if a different starter could be found in the market. I'd still be completely OK with that. But never making BJ the starter.

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The difference between us (other than the obvious) is I have (on a number of occasions) gone though games and explained in detail the play MAF made and whether or no I felt it was a good play.
I don't care because you are wearing giant blinkers in my view. Almost anyone can argue that almost any goal other than the full out howlers are difficult and due to something other than the goaltender. Most often, there's even something to it. However, good goal tenders make lots of difficult saves and few major mistakes.

The major difference between you and me is that I expect Fleury to be better than the opposing goalie more often than not. That should be our expectation from him at 5 mil. Our opponents have defensive breakdowns also. We habitually outshoot and outchance opponents. Hence we should win most the time.

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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
You, on the other hand, like to just state the generic "glove side!!" or "rebound!!!" without really looking at the play from what MAF was seeing (fully how you deleted my breakdown when you quoted my post, maybe you couldn't refute anything I said??).
You can do that with most goalies and few goals end up being their fault. More so when you prefer it not to be. If you think it is a coincidence that opponents like to go high glove or take shots from behind the goal on MAF, by all means. If you think his rebound control is top tier, go for it. If you think he isn't among the worst at playing the puck among starters, go for it. I will readily agree that his reflexes are top three in the league and that he often makes fantastic saves. But I never feel secure that he will be solid.

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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
And for a laugh (probably not for you) here's the MAF game tracker thread. Pure Gold, lol.
Why would I have an issue with that? He sucked then and deserved all the criticism he got. I still don't think he is a great goalie, and I'd still be open to trading him. I stand by all that.

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01-21-2012, 07:30 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
If you had any judgement at all you wouldn't ascribe something to me I've never said.

But yes, I have certainly questioned whether tying up 5 million in a goalie as imperfect as Fleury is a good idea. I believe he is more a beneficiary of being on a good team with no legit competition for him than he is a great goalie. That at a time where he had just been the greatest reason we lost to Montreal in the playoffs and followed up by downright disastrous goal tending to start last season. Then he finished the regular season really, really well for which I praised him like most others, and then he was second best in the match up against Roloson and we lost a series we led 3-1.

Anyway, this season I have generally backed him as having been good, though not elite. Nothing bad about being in the upper half among starters, but I get down on reading you and a few others go through every wall to defend him even in his worst games. This wasn't one of them, but if this was a good performance from a supposed top tier goalie in your view, I don't think you are watching a lot of hockey.
I'm somewhere between your evaluation and the really blind faith people have in our goaltender.

To hear it, everything but goaltending was the difference in the Montreal series. I think people's memory is fuzzy, or they really refuse to see acknowledge how god awful he was that series, constantly putting us behind the 8 ball with some horrible goals. Management certainly thought the same way, because they blamed defense on that series while completely disregarding the fact that the Pens spent about 70% of that series in Montreal's end.

I don't care if he doesn't win a Vezina award, I just want him to play better than the opposing goalie on most nights. Unfortunately, that's often not the case, or at least not often enough for my liking.

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01-21-2012, 07:55 PM
  #113
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I wanna give Tangradi a mention. I wanna give him a minus. It's not that he's a bad player, he just doesn't provide anything that any other forward does. He's slow and produces less than an enforcer. He's giving Bylsma no reason to play him more than 5 minutes a night. Fighting does nothing to help his cause.

This team isn't built to let prospects develop on the go. We're not the Islanders. Every recent rookie who made the team made an immediate impact. Think of Jeffrey, Kennedy, Vitale, Despres, Bortuzzo, Letang, etc. There's no room for Tangradi on this team if he's not making an impact.

Trade him while he still has value. IMO he can still evolve into a decent player, he just needs the right coaching, linemates, and icetime. He's gonna get none of that here, and for good reason.

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01-21-2012, 08:31 PM
  #114
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I wanna give Tangradi a mention. I wanna give him a minus. It's not that he's a bad player, he just doesn't provide anything that any other forward does. He's slow and produces less than an enforcer. He's giving Bylsma no reason to play him more than 5 minutes a night. Fighting does nothing to help his cause.

This team isn't built to let prospects develop on the go. We're not the Islanders. Every recent rookie who made the team made an immediate impact. Think of Jeffrey, Kennedy, Vitale, Despres, Bortuzzo, Letang, etc. There's no room for Tangradi on this team if he's not making an impact.

Trade him while he still has value. IMO he can still evolve into a decent player, he just needs the right coaching, linemates, and icetime. He's gonna get none of that here, and for good reason.
Amazing post IMO. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that this unjustified Tangradi obssession is a strange mutation of backup quarterback syndrome (a yinzer specialty). Besides Neal and sometimes Kunitz our wingers leave a lot to be desired so people are pulling ridiculously hard for Tangradi to pan out, to the point where there's about a dozen posts in the GDT every time he touches the puck for more than a half second. Also there's the typical underdog factor. People always want to pull for a guy who hasn't made it.

You're bang on about his ice time. Heaven forbid we allow for the possibility that maybe he's just not doing much out there. He had a couple of solid chances against Florida and.......somebody help me out here because I'm just not seeing it. Oh sorry I forgot, his line cycles the puck pretty well a couple of times a game. Pinch me, and while you're at it explain to me why any of this should translate into more shifts for Tangradi.

Is this really the player half this board is all riled up about? Bylsma is supposed to what? Play him 12-15 minutes a game on a better line? So he can accomplish what exactly? Hell if you threw him on with Malkin and Neal what makes you think he'd produce at all save for some vultured assists and a few goals resulted from idiot proof setups? There's nothing there, no evidence whatsoever to indicate he deserves anything more than what he's been given except, IMO, him at least not getting sat. At the same time he's terrible on the boards in his own zone when the puck is wrapped around to him so you can see where Disco is coming from. Well, apparently many of you can't.

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01-21-2012, 08:49 PM
  #115
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I definitely see the appeal. He's big, kind of talented, has hype, and had success in every league that he's played in. Mix that with us having just 2 legit top 6 wingers you have yourself a Tangradi band wagon.

It's also frustrating because he's clearly very close to being "useful", but at this rate it'll be hard for him to prove himself on this team. He also has nothing left to prove in WBS. Either prove yourself in Pittsburgh in the next few weeks or see yourself sitting on the bench in the playoffs.

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01-21-2012, 09:13 PM
  #116
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I definitely see the appeal. He's big, kind of talented, has hype, and had success in every league that he's played in. Mix that with us having just 2 legit top 6 wingers you have yourself a Tangradi band wagon.

It's also frustrating because he's clearly very close to being "useful", but at this rate it'll be hard for him to prove himself on this team. He also has nothing left to prove in WBS. Either prove yourself in Pittsburgh in the next few weeks or see yourself sitting on the bench in the playoffs.
Yeah, but at the same time if I had a nickel.....

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01-21-2012, 09:27 PM
  #117
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So where did the idea that people think Tangradi is gonna be a superstar come from? He has a good few shifts and some want to see him put into a position to succeed. Nobody thinks that Tangradi is an amazing player, but everybody who doesn't think he's a bust thinks that he's a budding superstar. Obviously.

Why can't there be any middle ground? He's a decent player who hasn't been given a shot to do anything. He's a rookie and he's not gonna be great every game.. but people like to forget about the good efforts he's had because it's become cool around here to hate on him.

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01-21-2012, 09:30 PM
  #118
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So where did the idea that people think Tangradi is gonna be a superstar come from? He has a good few shifts and some want to see him put into a position to succeed. Nobody thinks that Tangradi is an amazing player, but everybody who doesn't think he's a bust thinks that he's a budding superstar. Obviously.

Why can't there be any middle ground? He's a decent player who hasn't been given a shot to do anything. He's a rookie and he's not gonna be great every game.. but people like to forget about the good efforts he's had because it's become cool around here to hate on him.
Just because some of us don't think he should be playing when our team gets healthy doesn't mean we are hating on him. Wanting him to play well enough to earn more ice time isn't hating on him either.

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01-21-2012, 09:32 PM
  #119
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Just because some of us don't think he should be playing when our team gets healthy doesn't mean we are hating on him. Wanting him to play well enough to earn more ice time isn't hating on him either.
I never said he should be. He played well enough for a few games there and still was benched in the third in all those games.

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01-21-2012, 10:09 PM
  #120
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You were one of the most vocal anti-MAF posters in that thread ans suggested moving him in a number of posts. And as much as you "get down on" poster like me defending MAF, I'm sure it doesn't compare to how upsetting it is to see the same few posters rip MAF for the complete wrong reasons.

The difference between us (other than the obvious) is I have (on a number of occasions) gone though games and explained in detail the play MAF made and whether or no I felt it was a good play. You, on the other hand, like to just state the generic "glove side!!" or "rebound!!!" without really looking at the play from what MAF was seeing (fully how you deleted my breakdown when you quoted my post, maybe you couldn't refute anything I said??).

And for a laugh (probably not for you) here's the MAF game tracker thread. Pure Gold, lol.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...y+game+tracker
I'm not trying to be a dick here or anything because I think you're a good poster for the most part, but you do realize that you're like the biggest Fleury apologist on here right? Practically every other post you make is reminding everyone that "MAF was hung out to dry!" or that "MAF bailed out our D". Even on goals that are clearly Fleury's fault, like if he mishandles the puck leading to a goal, you'll blame it on something like "our D couldn't get it out of the zone!". When you consider that we are usually out-shooting and out-chancing our opponents, and keeping the play in their end most of the time, you have to realize how ridiculous the notion that he is always "hung out to dry" is, right?

As someone else pointed out, last night was the exact kind of game that Johnson would be vilified for. As for the game tracker thread that you like to bring up, are you really trying to convince people that Fleury wasn't terrible for a long stretch up to that point? That stretch where he was giving up some awful softy in the first couple minutes of every other game? And if you're a stats guys, well, his numbers reflected his poor play as well. I mean, don't get me wrong, Fleury has been very solid for the last 2 seasons and deserves praise for it. Which he has received. But he's not above criticism. He still makes plenty of mistakes and still has his share of bad games.

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01-21-2012, 11:17 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Indeed, if a different starter could be found in the market. I'd still be completely OK with that. But never making BJ the starter.


I don't care because you are wearing giant blinkers in my view. Almost anyone can argue that almost any goal other than the full out howlers are difficult and due to something other than the goaltender. Most often, there's even something to it. However, good goal tenders make lots of difficult saves and few major mistakes.

The major difference between you and me is that I expect Fleury to be better than the opposing goalie more often than not. That should be our expectation from him at 5 mil. Our opponents have defensive breakdowns also. We habitually outshoot and outchance opponents. Hence we should win most the time.


You can do that with most goalies and few goals end up being their fault. More so when you prefer it not to be. If you think it is a coincidence that opponents like to go high glove or take shots from behind the goal on MAF, by all means. If you think his rebound control is top tier, go for it. If you think he isn't among the worst at playing the puck among starters, go for it. I will readily agree that his reflexes are top three in the league and that he often makes fantastic saves. But I never feel secure that he will be solid.


Why would I have an issue with that? He sucked then and deserved all the criticism he got. I still don't think he is a great goalie, and I'd still be open to trading him. I stand by all that.
Obviously not now, but you were fine w/ giving BJ the job last year.

I may be "wearing blinders" but at least I back up my opinions with analysis, which apparently you just discredit because "anyone can argue that almost any goal other than the full out howlers are difficult and due to something other than the goaltender".

You hold MAF to a much higher standard than the opposing goalies. Looking back at that thread there were many times where people were giving a "win" or "even" and you were giving him a "loss". You expect him to be this perennial Norris candidate and make 10 amazing saves every game, and when he doesn't you're the first to jump on him. Also, your definition of 'lots of difficult saves and few major mistakes" is skewed because you hold MAF to a higher standard, and you don't watch other goalies as much as you watch MAF.

Be honest, how did you think MAF did against Hank the other day? Rebound goal, odd man rush goal, backhander over the glove, all against the highest paid goalie in the league??

You are also trying to make it sound like if every defensive breakdown is created equal and the fact that the Pens failing to score on their chances means MAF should. How many great chances have Martin, Adams and Sully flubbed over the last few games? Then look at who the Pens give up chances to (Cole, MaxPac, AKost, Hagelin on a clean breakaway). Also, Pens always take a bunch of terrible low % shots, which skew the stats. It's quality that matters not quantity.

His glove does need work, but all goalie have their weaknesses. Teams have been going high glove on Hank for uears, yet I don't see many NYR fans calling for him to be moved. Hie rebound control is pretty good, not top tier, but you constantly want him to do things that defy physics because you expect him to kick everything into the corner, despite the reality of the shots.

I'm well aware that you don't think he's good and should be moved despite being the teams MVP last season and being top 10 in GAA and top 5 in wins despite how depleted the team has been this year. His 2.24 GAA this year is pretty amazing considering the revolving door of Dmen they've had to play this season.

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01-21-2012, 11:33 PM
  #122
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I'm not trying to be a dick here or anything because I think you're a good poster for the most part, but you do realize that you're like the biggest Fleury apologist on here right? Practically every other post you make is reminding everyone that "MAF was hung out to dry!" or that "MAF bailed out our D". Even on goals that are clearly Fleury's fault, like if he mishandles the puck leading to a goal, you'll blame it on something like "our D couldn't get it out of the zone!". When you consider that we are usually out-shooting and out-chancing our opponents, and keeping the play in their end most of the time, you have to realize how ridiculous the notion that he is always "hung out to dry" is, right?

As someone else pointed out, last night was the exact kind of game that Johnson would be vilified for. As for the game tracker thread that you like to bring up, are you really trying to convince people that Fleury wasn't terrible for a long stretch up to that point? That stretch where he was giving up some awful softy in the first couple minutes of every other game? And if you're a stats guys, well, his numbers reflected his poor play as well. I mean, don't get me wrong, Fleury has been very solid for the last 2 seasons and deserves praise for it. Which he has received. But he's not above criticism. He still makes plenty of mistakes and still has his share of bad games.
I could say the exact same thing about you just with one changed word, but I won't. You have been very anti-MAF over the years, but I'm not about to start name calling.

You're right, I might be a bit quick to defend MAF, but that's mostly due to how many times I have to hear MAF get ripped on every goal he gives up regardless of whether or not it's even remotely his fault. I don't give him a free pass when he Fs up (when have I said it was ok when he mishandles a puck?) I just don't see every goal he gives up as a F up. Especially when it's the same ~5 guys calling for his head every goal/game.

I bring up that thread to show how much some here love to overreact when it comes to MAF. With guys wanting to trade/waive him for BJ or take a flyer on a current backup just because of a bad month is pretty funny considering how the season turned out.

You wouldn't know it from that thread or the posts from the same ~5 posters but MAf finished last year:
Team MVP
6th in wins (36)
9th in GAA (2.32) - 7th for goalies who started at least 30 games
14th in S% (.918) - 12th for goalies who started at least 30 games

Not bad for an over-paid scrub, eh?

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Old
01-22-2012, 12:33 AM
  #123
TheSniper26
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
I could say the exact same thing about you just with one changed word, but I won't. You have been very anti-MAF over the years, but I'm not about to start name calling.
I'm "anti-MAF" now? Why? Because I say he had a bad game when he had a bad game? Because I said he was playing poorly a couple years ago when he was, in fact, playing poorly?

Might want to take a look at the game tracker thread link you posted above. Not once in that thread do I say that MAF is an awful goalie or that he should be traded or waived. I simply said that, at the time of that thread, he was playing terribly and the we should ride the hot hand in Johnson and at least split time between the goalies evenly until Fleury gets his form back. I also said that I thought he was a middle of the pack starting goalie with occasional streaks of great play(which his numbers reflect clearly) and, while he's improved his play a bit the last two seasons, my opinion is still more or less the same.

Quote:
You're right, I might be a bit quick to defend MAF, but that's mostly due to how many times I have to hear MAF get ripped on every goal he gives up regardless of whether or not it's even remotely his fault. I don't give him a free pass when he Fs up (when have I said it was ok when he mishandles a puck?) I just don't see every goal he gives up as a F up. Especially when it's the same ~5 guys calling for his head every goal/game.
Sorry, but where is this happening? For the last two seasons(after his rough patch at the beginning of last season) he's received nothing but universal praise for his steady play. In fact, if you look back through my posts, you'll see plenty of occasions where I said I was glad to see him turn things around and that I thought he was playing great(minus his puck handling which still drives me nuts). I just don't see all this Fleury bashing that you're talking about. There's been like two games this year that people have said he wasn't sharp.

Also, to say that you don't give him a free pass is a joke. You absolve him of every single goal he gives up by throwing the defense under the bus. Every single time you post in a +/- thread, it's always "the D hung MAF out to dry again!!". You jump on every little mistake Martin or Sullivan or Lovejoy or whoever your favorite whipping boy of the night is, then turn around and freak out when someone says Fleury had a weak game.

Quote:
I bring up that thread to show how much some here love to overreact when it comes to MAF. With guys wanting to trade/waive him for BJ or take a flyer on a current backup just because of a bad month is pretty funny considering how the season turned out.

You wouldn't know it from that thread or the posts from the same ~5 posters but MAf finished last year:
Team MVP
6th in wins (36)
9th in GAA (2.32) - 7th for goalies who started at least 30 games
14th in S% (.918) - 12th for goalies who started at least 30 games


Not bad for an over-paid scrub, eh?
So with the exception of wins, which is a team stat, his individual numbers are around, or slightly above, average. Which is about what my opinion has been of him all along. An average starter that occasionally gets really hot. What's your point here? Am I meant to be blown away by a guy that has the 12th best save% in the league? Like I said, he's improved his play from where he was a couple years ago, which he should be praised for, but let's not act like he should have won the Vezina last year or something. Let's also not act like his improved play puts him above criticism if he has a rough night. Nobody else on the roster really has that luxury and Fleury shouldn't have it either.

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01-22-2012, 12:51 AM
  #124
Slabber Chops
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Indeed, if a different starter could be found in the market. I'd still be completely OK with that. But never making BJ the starter.
MAF isn't flawless, that is clearly sure. However, there sure aren't any goalies that have come available via free agency over the last few years that I would take over him. Further, when you consider what assets would need to be given up to get a 'quality' replacement via trade and offset that against what you would get for MAF, I don't think you're going to make much if any upgrade along the trade lines.

In summary, therefore, the potential gain from replacing him with another player via a trade simply does not stack up. For this reason, plus the fact that he is in the top quarter of goalies in the league, plus the fact that he's a homegrown player who is therefore more likely to remain loyal, he's the Pens goalie for the next 5 years at least. Move on from the 'get rid of him' talk I say.

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Old
01-22-2012, 01:12 AM
  #125
Tender Rip
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Originally Posted by Slabber Chops View Post
Move on from the 'get rid of him' talk I say.
Don't think I have mentioned it once before this season before Super fan Ragamuffin dragged the old thread into it.
I rather agree with your reasoning also. Mostly.

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