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Old
01-21-2012, 08:29 AM
  #1
HCH
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Subban's Play

As I watch Subban I notice him going tentatively into the corners when chasing a dump in. He is looking over his shoulder, putting the brakes on, putting one arm up in order to fend off a potential defender and waving at the puck with one hand on his stick. Often when he gets the puck and can't find a way to get it out of the zone, he will dump it blindly rather than take a hit.

I don't see him playing a fearless game in the way that Gorges, Emelin or even Gill do. He's not the worst on the team (Kaberle, Campoli and Weber come to mind) but for someone who has been pre-ordained a star for the team, that aspect of his game needs to be better.

Or am I just imagining this?

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01-21-2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
As I watch Subban I notice him going tentatively into the corners when chasing a dump in. He is looking over his shoulder, putting the brakes on, putting one arm up in order to fend off a potential defender and waving at the puck with one hand on his stick. Often when he gets the puck and can't find a way to get it out of the zone, he will dump it blindly rather than take a hit.

I don't see him playing a fearless game in the way that Gorges, Emelin or even Gill do. He's not the worst on the team (Kaberle, Campoli and Weber come to mind) but for someone who has been pre-ordained a star for the team, that aspect of his game needs to be better.

Or am I just imagining this?
Problem is he's the only D other than Emelin with a big target on his back.

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01-21-2012, 08:41 AM
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HeShootsHeScores
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He fuels on adrenaline game in game out. Each second he is on the ice is like the climax of an 90s arnold movie in his head.

He needs to mature and calm down a little bit. You see that guy jumping like he wants to pee during national anthems? I used to love it in 2010 playoffs, young intense player. It's 2012 now, he should go with the flow and play smarter.

Y joue yinc sur une gosse. High risk, high reward type of plays.

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01-21-2012, 08:49 AM
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Hes strong enough on his skates to put the brakes on when the opposing player is coming at him for a hit, he absorbs it and they can't push him off the puck. Its not playing tentatively, its playing smart. See Ovechkin at the blue line the other day. Never seen so many complaints about a young player. See this post in other thread.

Quote:
As for the rest of it, here’s a quote from Melnick’s blog for the sillier amongst us to ponder.

“Subban is in his second NHL season. What’s Drew Doughty doing in LA? Ok, I’ll tell you. In 43 games Doughty is 3-17-20 pts +1. Subban, in 46 games, is 3-16-19 pts -1. Calder Trophy winner Tyler Myers has 8 points in 27 games this season, has been a healthy scratch, and is -8. In his 2nd NHL season Jack Johnson had 11 points and was -18. Second year defenseman Cam Fowler has played 45 games this season. He’s 3-15-18 pts -13. And to save us both a lot of time I’ll just jump ahead to Zdeno Chara who, in his second full season, played 65 games and was 2-9-11 pts -27. Chara had a similar third full season before his imbecile of a GM lost his patience and dealt him to Ottawa.”

Wasn't that GM Milbury?

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01-21-2012, 08:55 AM
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I would play him with Kaberle. Including his last two games with Carolina, meaning 20 games, he is + 2 and he has 20 pts, a pace of 1 pt per game. This trade is looking better.

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01-21-2012, 08:56 AM
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To be perfectly fair, PK only makes a few mistakes every game. Problem is they're the same mistakes over and over. He's immature, plain and simple. Once he grows up a little, he'll be fine. If we could afford to give him 5-6 D minutes, his mistakes wouldn't be so glaring.

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01-21-2012, 09:03 AM
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He needs to play with an experience defensive player, Kaberle would be a good fit.

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01-21-2012, 09:03 AM
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He's alone out there....not suported by teamates aside from Gorges. Stills needs to be coahed on a games to games basic.

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01-21-2012, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
To be perfectly fair, PK only makes a few mistakes every game. Problem is they're the same mistakes over and over. He's immature, plain and simple. Once he grows up a little, he'll be fine. If we could afford to give him 5-6 D minutes, his mistakes wouldn't be so glaring.
And they always end up in the back of the net magnifying them more. The only thing I didnt like was the arguing back in forth on the bench with the asst coach. I am assuming he just made the normal play without checking if anyone was there so he thought he was making the right play per say but its never the right play if no one is there to get it.

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01-21-2012, 09:08 AM
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Everything about this guy gets scrutinized. It's hilarious.

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01-21-2012, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
And they always end up in the back of the net magnifying them more. The only thing I didnt like was the arguing back in forth on the bench with the asst coach. I am assuming he just made the normal play without checking if anyone was there so he thought he was making the right play per say but its never the right play if no one is there to get it.
Stop it.

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01-21-2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Everything about this guy gets scrutinized. It's hilarious.
It's because his mistakes are highlights. The puck always ends up behind his goalie 3 secondes after it. Arguing with the coach with lots of expression 30 seconds after the costly mistake doesn't help his cause either. That said, I see in this guy one of the best NHL d-men in the years to come. This season though is not encouraging maturiy wise. He seems to be a huge distraction for his teammates. If sometimes, a teams success relies on chemistry, we might have the start of an answer to explain this season so far.

Edit : replace always by too often if you want.

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01-21-2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by HeShootsHeScores View Post
It's because his mistakes are highlights. The puck always ends up behind his goalie 3 secondes after it. Arguing with the coach with lots of expression 30 seconds after the costly mistake doesn't help his cause either. That said, I see in this guy one of the best NHL d-men in the years to come. This season though is not encouraging maturiy wise. He seems to be a huge distraction for his teammates. If sometimes, a teams success relies on chemistry, we might have the start of an answer to explain this season so far.
That's such nonsense I won't even argue it.

As far as arguing with the coach? Did you hear what was said? He's a distraction for his teammates? Was he a distraction when they went to the ECF? What about when he scored 14 goals last year? blah blah blah it's the same crap from some people. Don't have any concrete evidence to back up anything you say.

The entire team SUCKS! The Dmen give the puck away. The forwards give the puck away. The team can't pass. The goalies are struggling at stopping the puck. The defensive zone coverage is pathetic (3 forwards on one side of the ice) The head coach has been told he has no shot at being retained next year. But Lets all blame Subban!

AK has 1 goal in the last 12 games but HE MUST BE RE-SIGNED! Eller hasn't scored a goal since the beginning of the year HE IS AMAZING! Desharnais gets muscled off the puck constantly and contributed to the game tying goal. Not a peep. Gill is virtually useless on the ice. Not a peep. Bourque has been invisible... Gauthier Appreciation Thread!

It's all so annoying.

The 2 most hated on guys are Price and PK by far.

/rant

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01-21-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
That's such nonsense I won't even argue it.

As far as arguing with the coach? Did you hear what was said? He's a distraction for his teammates? Was he a distraction when they went to the ECF? What about when he scored 14 goals last year? blah blah blah it's the same crap from some people. Don't have any concrete evidence to back up anything you say.

The entire team SUCKS! The Dmen give the puck away. The forwards give the puck away. The team can't pass. The goalies are struggling at stopping the puck. The defensive zone coverage is pathetic (3 forwards on one side of the ice) The head coach has been told he has no shot at being retained next year. But Lets all blame Subban!

AK has 1 goal in the last 12 games but HE MUST BE RE-SIGNED! Eller hasn't scored a goal since the beginning of the year HE IS AMAZING! Desharnais gets muscled off the puck constantly and contributed to the game tying goal. Not a peep. Gill is virtually useless on the ice. Not a peep. Bourque has been invisible... Gauthier Appreciation Thread!

It's all so annoying.

The 2 most hated on guys are Price and PK by far.

/rant
I talk upon observations. I'm not a journalist and I've got nothing to proove to you. And you seem to have failed to notice I wrote I see huuuge potential at him being one of the best D-man in the league in the next few years.

Pk was a source of inspiration during his 2010 playoffs stint. He was new, young, had a lot to learn but gave 110% and had the team's fate at heart. It was so good to see this. Now he seems like his ego has grown bigger and the team's fate is not as much at the top of his priority list.

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01-21-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeShootsHeScores View Post

Pk was a source of inspiration during his 2010 playoffs stint. He was new, young, had a lot to learn but gave 110% and had the team's fate at heart. It was so good to see this. Now he seems like his ego has grown bigger and the team's fate is not as much at the top of his priority list.
I don't want to agree with you, but I would like to know whatever happened to Gill "mentoring" PK. Did he give up??

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01-21-2012, 09:37 AM
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Everyone wanted Price gone or back in the minors at 22.

Playing Subban 15 mins a game won't solve anything. You need to play him like he's your horse, because that's what he is. Give him 28 mins a game, he will learn. We all know he's willing. This is the player they drafted, live and die with him as your guy, just like they did with Price.

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01-21-2012, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Everything about this guy gets scrutinized. It's hilarious.
and everything positive about the guy gets magnified to godly status without him having actual success.

he's a polarizing player.

as you can tell from last nights game, he can now add pittsburgh as another venue that he gets booed at. The list is growing. I don't know why, but he's obviously gaining a reputation somehow ( and it's not a positive one ). you don't get this type of reaction from the crosby's, ovechkin's.

Can anyone tell me why he gets booed?
it's definatley not because he's a superstar thats a danger to the other team. Just look at his stats for proof.

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01-21-2012, 09:41 AM
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I don't know if some of you have heard JM at l'antichambre. I mean, you hear it from the former coach itself. "His immaturity can be frustrating to deal with".

A few days later, you see him live on camera trying arguing with the coach. Assumptions have a reason to be sometimes.

And I talk about PK's flaws because it's pk thread.

God damn it it's becoming frustrating having to justify every single ****ing sentence I write without having to be criticized and looked at as a "nonsense".

Hockeywise, Subban's is one of the best. I assume things upon observations about his attitude that's all. I didn't say I wanted to trade him or to send him to the pressbox till the end of the world.

**** these boards sometimes. Sometimes agreeing with what is being said in the media can be okay.

/rant

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01-21-2012, 09:42 AM
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Trading him would be a huge mistake. Once he calms down he'll be able to control the play like Karlsson is doing this season with Ottawa. They also need a system that promotes his ability to carry the puck up the ice, instead when he does it his teammates are left stuck at the blueline and he's got no support in the offensive zone.

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01-21-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
and everything positive about the guy gets magnified to godly status without him having actual success.

he's a polarizing player.

as you can tell from last nights game, he can now add pittsburgh as another venue that he gets booed at. The list is growing. I don't know why, but he's obviously gaining a reputation somehow ( and it's not a positive one ). you don't get this type of reaction from the crosby's, ovechkin's.

Can anyone tell me why he gets booed?
it's definatley not because he's a superstar thats a danger to the other team. Just look at his stats for proof.
They've been booing him for a while, ever since his skate accidentally cut Jordan Staal's foot.

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01-21-2012, 09:46 AM
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hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by maci4life View Post
and everything positive about the guy gets magnified to godly status without him having actual success.

he's a polarizing player.

as you can tell from last nights game, he can now add pittsburgh as another venue that he gets booed at. The list is growing. I don't know why, but he's obviously gaining a reputation somehow ( and it's not a positive one ). you don't get this type of reaction from the crosby's, ovechkin's.

Can anyone tell me why he gets booed?
it's definatley not because he's a superstar thats a danger to the other team. Just look at his stats for proof.
I know why PK gets booed everywhere and I'm not going to get into it.

Fans cry and cry and cry about not having young impact players and how the Habs trade young players away too soon but have the audacity to pick apart everything both Price and PK do while turning a blind eye to what other players are doing on this team.

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01-21-2012, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
That's such nonsense I won't even argue it.

As far as arguing with the coach? Did you hear what was said? He's a distraction for his teammates? Was he a distraction when they went to the ECF? What about when he scored 14 goals last year? blah blah blah it's the same crap from some people. Don't have any concrete evidence to back up anything you say.

The entire team SUCKS! The Dmen give the puck away. The forwards give the puck away. The team can't pass. The goalies are struggling at stopping the puck. The defensive zone coverage is pathetic (3 forwards on one side of the ice) The head coach has been told he has no shot at being retained next year. But Lets all blame Subban!

AK has 1 goal in the last 12 games but HE MUST BE RE-SIGNED! Eller hasn't scored a goal since the beginning of the year HE IS AMAZING! Desharnais gets muscled off the puck constantly and contributed to the game tying goal. Not a peep. Gill is virtually useless on the ice. Not a peep. Bourque has been invisible... Gauthier Appreciation Thread!

It's all so annoying.

The 2 most hated on guys are Price and PK by far.

/rant
Atleast there's a glimmer of hope for humanity in this thread.

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01-21-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Everyone wanted Price gone or back in the minors at 22.

Playing Subban 15 mins a game won't solve anything. You need to play him like he's your horse, because that's what he is. Give him 28 mins a game, he will learn. We all know he's willing. This is the player they drafted, live and die with him as your guy, just like they did with Price.
he's not a god. he's a player that has positives and negatives. right now, judging by his play, he's over valued, therefore if mtl can get a superstar ( no picks, or 1 for 1 ) for him, then i say they do. Markov will be back very soon.

THE ONLY REASON he is getting the ice time, is because no one else on montreal can do this, until Markov comes back.

This is not a testement to his skills and smart play, it's addition by the teams own limitations; he's a bit better than the rest, he also has a lot to prove, management is giving the benefit of the doubt and giving him a lot of ice time in hopes that he does improve his play ( definatley a smart move on the managers part ).

make no mistake all of you Subban excuser's. Defensive core speaking, Subban is the honda accord in a line up of Honda civic's. Hence his ice time. He is not an NSX, as you all make him out to be. He may have some NSX parts, but there's no guarantee that he will get more parts. If you can package him up to get that NSX, Weber's, doughty's, Getzlaf's, Nash's. Then you pull that trigger and don't look back.

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01-21-2012, 09:51 AM
  #24
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Subban has been good for us. This is a perfect example of people not even understanding his game.
The guy nullifies a lot of hits coming his way. He's able to let up his skating, protect himself from a big damaging hit, and come out with the puck. People view it as him being tentative when it's in fact quite remarkable. We're not talking about Brisebois here, that slowed down because he didn't want to be hit, and then had to chase the guy around for the puck. PK comes out with the puck more often than not.
He throws it blindly around the boards (something every other Dman in the NHL does) where his teammate is supposed to be, and then it will be a focus on the mistake.
They see him talk about it with the coach on the bench, and they interprete that as him being a distraction and arguing with the coach. It was hilarious to listen to Gagnon yesterday on AC that was pretty much imagining the live dialogue, which, obviously wasn't flattery to PK.
All I saw was Ladouceur telling PK to calm down, and PK trying to explain himself.
But people view it as PK whining, blaming teammates, Ladouceur telling him enough is enough and then RC coming in to tell him to shut up.


PK isn't even having a bad year.

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01-21-2012, 09:53 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
To be perfectly fair, PK only makes a few mistakes every game. Problem is they're the same mistakes over and over. He's immature, plain and simple. Once he grows up a little, he'll be fine. If we could afford to give him 5-6 D minutes, his mistakes wouldn't be so glaring.
Exactly right. The constant scrutiny doesn't help a young guy mature, but if we can all take a pill and commit to a long-term relationship with him, Subban will eventually grow into the star we imagine he is already.

What scares me most about this team is its teeny-tiny attention span. At the first sign of problem we trade a player or dump a coach. No wonder so many people bloom once they leave Montreal. Do NOT trade Subban!

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