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Don Waddell added as pro scout

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01-21-2012, 04:33 PM
  #26
Rob Scuderi
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I don't see how anyone can say something like that.

I mean I understand it's a different job, but exactly what did the Thrashers/Jets get back for Kovalchuk AND Hossa? I'm shocked that nobody's bothered at least a little by this.
But do you, how many trades do scouts make a year?

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01-21-2012, 04:35 PM
  #27
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As some one who both watched the Thrashers for a long time and truly despises the Pittsburgh Penguins, I do feel bad for you guys. The man makes Mike Milbury look like a genius.

For your teams sake I hope he has sobered up. I wouldn't wish Waddell on the Isles, let alone you guys. And I do mean this post in a sincere way so try not to take it out of context.

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01-21-2012, 04:43 PM
  #28
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Meh...he's just a scout and we were short a pro scout with Artie leaving the organization.

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01-21-2012, 05:03 PM
  #29
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I know he's just a scout but I'm going to freak out anyways. I think he honestly might be the dumbest man in hockey. I don't even want his name associated with this team.

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01-21-2012, 05:19 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
I know he's just a scout but I'm going to freak out anyways. I think he honestly might be the dumbest man in hockey. I don't even want his name associated with this team.
With Milbury and Snow out there, I think you might be overstating things. I am not the most impressed with this move, but until he really proves himself i have to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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01-21-2012, 05:32 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
I don't get it. Why wouldn't you want to hire another person with invaluable insight into the professionals who fill out our roster? Oh cause it's cool to talk about how he sucks.

rabble rabble Milbury rabble rabble Pierre McGuire rabble

Damn we already had one close call with Randy Sexton too.
QFT.

Welcome to the organization, Don.

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01-21-2012, 05:45 PM
  #32
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I guess I can't see a way that hiring Waddell as (one of) the team's pro scouts could really do much harm, exactly. But neither do I see the point in bringing an abject failure into the organization. If he does indeed have such a great mind for the game... he hasn't shown it for the last ten years, or so.

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01-21-2012, 05:46 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
But do you, how many trades do scouts make a year?
Don't give me that argument. You may as well post a "rage" picture for all that's worth.

If you're a bad evaluator of talent, I don't want you to be the guy submitting a list of - you know, talent - to our GM that might be worth picking up in a trade or FA. I know our motto is "In Ray we trust", but I'd rather not have a guy who was greatly responsible for an entire franchise relocating submitting scouting reports to our General Manager.

I guess if pro scouting is such a small thing, we may as well hire Milbury as well, as long as he's not the one actually pulling the trigger on deals.


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01-21-2012, 06:07 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Fogel View Post
For what it is worth, I've heard that many terrible MLB GMs who are now scouts are often above average in that area.
I met Dave Littlefield at an Altoona Curve game as he was scouting for the Cubs. Got a picture and everything. He was nice as could be.

Cool story bro.

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01-21-2012, 06:23 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
I don't get it. Why wouldn't you want to hire another person with invaluable insight into the professionals who fill out our roster? Oh cause it's cool to talk about how he sucks.

rabble rabble Milbury rabble rabble

Bad choice of examples. Actually the worst possible choice. Mostly because he was a failure by just about any definition you can use (WRT to being a GM -- or even a broadcaster if you want to be current). You should've used someone like Tony Granato, who was disliked intensely in Colorado as a head coach, but came here and has obviously contributed something positive or would no longer be here.

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01-21-2012, 06:45 PM
  #36
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I don't get why some people have a problem with this. Just because he was pretty bad as a GM doesn't mean anything about his work as pro scout.
But I guess the same people complained when Shero hired Granato as assistant coach. Look how he helped our PK, but some people didn't want to give him a chance because he was a bad/average head coach.

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01-21-2012, 07:04 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Konstantin Koltsov View Post
I met Dave Littlefield at an Altoona Curve game as he was scouting for the Cubs. Got a picture and everything. He was nice as could be.

Cool story bro.
That's nice. However, his disposition has nothing to do with scouting just like his tenure as a GM has no bearing on how well he can scout. If Law, Goldstein, Callis and others mention that some bad MLB GMs are good scouts, I'm going to believe them and I doubt that trait is solely in baseball.

It isn't logical to assume that a bad GM is bad at every single aspect of his job and some not. GMs don't go out a scout all the players in and out of their system. So why should we assume that he is bad as a scout? Some people aren't good at being in charge; Lebeau was terrible yet he is a terrific D coordinator.

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01-21-2012, 07:28 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Don't give me that argument. You may as well post a "rage" picture for all that's worth.

If you're a bad evaluator of talent, I don't want you to be the guy submitting a list of - you know, talent - to our GM that might be worth picking up in a trade or FA. I know our motto is "In Ray we trust", but I'd rather not have a guy who was greatly responsible for an entire franchise relocating submitting scouting reports to our General Manager.

I guess if pro scouting is such a small thing, we may as well hire Milbury as well, as long as he's not the one actually pulling the trigger on deals.
Asset management =/= talent evaluation

We have nothing to suggest he's a bad evaluator of talent aside from the fact that he made some bad trades as a GM and could have built a better core with such a losing team. None of those things make me concerned when he's not ever going to be close to reprising those roles for my team.

Guys like Waddell and Sexton are just consultants who had an immense litany of resources available to them when they one time ran a club. Someone with that info stored upstairs is who you want to help advise when Shero's crew talks about a player they don't know all that well first-hand. Who's better than a former GM or Coach of a player to give you insight into their game?

How does having two first rounders bust in a package for the best post-lockout rental, under what some have labeled the worst owners in all of professional sports, somehow compromise that skillset that I listed above?

**** bring Milbury into it, if you want. It's not like anyone can sit here and contend he knows nothing about hockey despite the fact he was a terrible, terrible asset manager. But if I need to ask him about defensive defenders he gets a chance to see often, wherever his beat is nowadays (assuming he has one), then you're damn right I'd solicit an opinion. You know that's all it is right?

What Shero does with said opinions is why this isn't an issue.

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01-21-2012, 09:33 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
Kevin Stevens has left the organization so maybe Waddell will be his successor. IIRC Artie was pro scout for the New England area.
I was gonna post this very thing, but I'm late to the dance here.

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01-21-2012, 09:53 PM
  #40
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Condolences from a Thrashers fan. A lot of the heat he got for poor trades and lack of activity for getting free agents to sign can be directed at the owners, he was sand bagged a lot by them.

I honestly don't think he was that great at drafting either. Your Dany Heatley, Ilya Kovalchuck, Zach Bogosian, and Evander Kane drafts were no-brainers. You can't even hate on him too much for Patrick Stefan as he was ranked pretty high. Probably his biggest achievement was getting Toby Enstrom in the 8th round in the 2003 draft.

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01-22-2012, 10:20 PM
  #41
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Shero probably decided to target Waddell from working with him on Team USA. In any case, I find it interesting that Shero now has three former GMs on his staff: Don Waddell, Randy Sexton and Andre Savard, all of whom in the scouting department in one form or another.

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01-22-2012, 10:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sunshine36616 View Post
Condolences from a Thrashers fan. A lot of the heat he got for poor trades and lack of activity for getting free agents to sign can be directed at the owners, he was sand bagged a lot by them.

I honestly don't think he was that great at drafting either. Your Dany Heatley, Ilya Kovalchuck, Zach Bogosian, and Evander Kane drafts were no-brainers. You can't even hate on him too much for Patrick Stefan as he was ranked pretty high. Probably his biggest achievement was getting Toby Enstrom in the 8th round in the 2003 draft.
He's not here to draft, he's not here to trade, he's not here to sign free agents. He's here just to be an extra set of eyes out on the pro scene and give Ray Shero information and advice when he asks for it. But ultimately the decision to pull the trigger on any roster move will come down to Shero himself, and he's proven time and time again he's got a pretty good grip on making such decisions.

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01-22-2012, 11:55 PM
  #43
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If you like Shero, then you should like this hiring. Period. Shero needs people he likes, gets along with and trusts in his circle. Obviously, Waddell is one of those people.

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01-23-2012, 12:16 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by clefty View Post
He's not here to draft, he's not here to trade, he's not here to sign free agents. He's here just to be an extra set of eyes out on the pro scene and give Ray Shero information and advice when he asks for it. But ultimately the decision to pull the trigger on any roster move will come down to Shero himself, and he's proven time and time again he's got a pretty good grip on making such decisions.
And again, I can't stress the fact that he's taking a position vacated by Kevin ****ing Stevens.

If you choose a selective memory we're not that far removed from Waddell being a rising star in this league as the Assistant GM for the Red Wings in the mid/late 90s.

Any time your scouting staff contains 3 ex-GMs you should be pretty happy. At the very least I expect Waddell won't get distracted by funnel cake nearly as often.

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01-23-2012, 12:19 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
And again, I can't stress the fact that he's taking a position vacated by Kevin ****ing Stevens.

If you choose a selective memory we're not that far removed from Waddell being a rising star in this league as the Assistant GM for the Red Wings in the mid/late 90s.
Yes, but how many of the complaints are being lodged by people that are old enough to remember that era?

I also think lots of people are very fuzzy on the role of scouts, judging from some of the comments here.

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01-23-2012, 12:30 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
As some one who both watched the Thrashers for a long time and truly despises the Pittsburgh Penguins, I do feel bad for you guys. The man makes Mike Milbury look like a genius.

For your teams sake I hope he has sobered up. I wouldn't wish Waddell on the Isles, let alone you guys. And I do mean this post in a sincere way so try not to take it out of context.
Not really. Noone makes Mike Milbury look like a genius. He was a clown as a coach, a disaster as a gm, and as a television analyst his only worth is his ability to stir up attention with his asinine myopic observations.

Waddell made a lot of poor decisions as a gm, but even if you don't adjust for the fact that he wasn't operating in the best of situations with that team and its owners, he still has a VERY long way to go to get to Milbury's level.

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01-23-2012, 12:43 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
And again, I can't stress the fact that he's taking a position vacated by Kevin ****ing Stevens.

If you choose a selective memory we're not that far removed from Waddell being a rising star in this league as the Assistant GM for the Red Wings in the mid/late 90s.

Any time your scouting staff contains 3 ex-GMs you should be pretty happy. At the very least I expect Waddell won't get distracted by funnel cake nearly as often.
Thank you for repeating that statement. I think that replacing Kevin Stevens might not be too strenuous for a guy who used to work with the Red Wings. I think that we are looking too much for a reason to complain.

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01-23-2012, 01:17 AM
  #48
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And the Kunitzes, Tangradis, and Neals of the league. It's not like Shero only has the scout's input on bad trades.
But... but... but... Tangradi is a bust!

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01-23-2012, 03:05 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I don't see how anyone can say something like that.

I mean I understand it's a different job, but exactly what did the Thrashers/Jets get back for Kovalchuk AND Hossa? I'm shocked that nobody's bothered at least a little by this.
Because there's nothing to be bothered about. Unless you're just looking for something to complain about. Waddell isn't negotiating, or making the trades. It's a complete and utter non-issue.

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01-23-2012, 04:57 PM
  #50
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shero may ask waddle who he likes and then say we're not touching that kid with a ten foot pole...

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