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“The Canadiens win the Stanley Cup every year in marketing" - Savard

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Old
01-21-2012, 02:55 AM
  #1
Habaneros
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“The Canadiens win the Stanley Cup every year in marketing" - Savard

Savard say he isn't interested in coming back, says Roy might come to Montreal with "conditions"




Quote:

The Canadiens win the Stanley Cup every year in marketing with lots of help from the media,” he added. “Today, you can’t turn on a radio or a television set without non-stop coverage from the media, but I can remember a few years starting the playoffs with 2,000 empty seats. Now, you can’t find an empty seat at any of game. The money is pouring in.

“Hockey is all about winning. Anything less simply isn’t good enough, but you’ve got to get the players who can do it … who feel that anything less than winning the Stanley Cup simply isn’t good enough.”

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...#ixzz1k55bZnhW



Quote:
“With Patrick, it’s all about passion,” Savard explained. “I could see him accepting the job and getting the best out of his players. His junior team in Quebec is a gold mine. And it’s been a winner because of the passion Roy brings to every game – just as he did with us.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...#ixzz1k56BC4nR

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01-21-2012, 05:23 AM
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I would love to see Molson appoint Savard as "special counsel", i.e give him the rubber stamp for any moves Gauthier tries to make until the offseason when we can get someone more competent in the role of GM.

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01-21-2012, 08:11 AM
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I completely agree with him. We aren't happy going after the cup. 8th place is considered a success. now.

Quote:
One day short of his 66th birthday, this grandfather of five remains wise in everything associated with the NHL in general and the Canadiens in particular. He has strong ideas about the continuing tsunami involving the organization he served so well for so many years on and off the ice, and admits to being irritated with one aspect of it.

“In all the years as a player we would start every season with only one thing in mind: win the Stanley Cup,” Savard said. “Now, it’s make the playoffs … only the playoffs. Is it because of the changing times? I suppose so.
I also think he was right about this:

Quote:
“Hockey is all about winning. Anything less simply isn’t good enough, but you’ve got to get the players who can do it … who feel that anything less than winning the Stanley Cup simply isn’t good enough.”
We haven't had the kind of top calibre players to be able to do this for a long time now.


I really, really hope that ownership takes a serious look at the state of the organization and finally makes REAL changes. The kinds of changes that I've been arguing we need for a long time now. Free Agency isn't going to work for us. Not at the state we're in. We need to start over and wipe the slate clean.

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01-21-2012, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I completely agree with him. We aren't happy going after the cup. 8th place is considered a success. now.



I also think he was right about this:


We haven't had the kind of top calibre players to be able to do this for a long time now.


I really, really hope that ownership takes a serious look at the state of the organization and finally makes REAL changes. The kinds of changes that I've been arguing we need for a long time now. Free Agency isn't going to work for us. Not at the state we're in. We need to start over and wipe the slate clean.
I agree with you and with Savard 100%. Carefull what you say though as many of the folks around here are happy just making it into the playoffs and we get labeled as bad and needy fans etc. Savard has a point and I feel Bowman helped breed that in his players. This organization needs a complete overhaul and our new coach and GM need to let the media know that they are running the ship and they (the media) can go take a long walk off a short pier if they don't like it regardless of the story they want to spin up on it. I feel that may also help to bring in more top talent.

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01-21-2012, 08:24 AM
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It isn't that some people are happy just making the playoffs. If you don't think everyone wants to win the cup then you are nuts.

But some folks believe a 6th to 8th place team has as much chance as any if playing hot with a hot goalie. Others feel we need to be a top 5 team in the NHL year in and out and I don't disagree with them, it would help the odds considerably. But don't try to spin it as people being just happy with a first round exit. Everyone wants to win the cup. (duh)

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01-21-2012, 08:24 AM
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I can tell you one thing. If Savard was running this team, we would not be a fringe playoff team for the last 10 years. Every year we're gunning for 8th place and hoping for a playoff win or two. It's time we build a team that can legitimately compete for a cup year in and year out and if you have to make tough decisions with regards to the roster then so be it.

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01-21-2012, 08:27 AM
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In this day of 30 teams, this is all easier said than done...Serge has a passion for the Habs, but even he at the end of his time, was starting to make some wild decisions...

Being away for awhile, I believe has given him some perspective...the one thing he didn't have to deal with, was the media circus, and the internet like they do now...

I would like to see him come back in an advisors role of some sort, to the GM....and have Scotty Bowman come with him.

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01-21-2012, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
In this day of 30 teams, this is all easier said than done...Serge has a passion for the Habs, but even he at the end of his time, was starting to make some wild decisions...

Being away for awhile, I believe has given him some perspective...the one thing he didn't have to deal with, was the media circus, and the internet like they do now...

I would like to see him come back in an advisors role of some sort, to the GM....and have Scotty Bowman come with him.
Exactly, it's very easy to sit in a chair and criticize.
Not that I disagree with some of the things he said, but it's one thing to say it and another to do it.

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01-21-2012, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Exactly, it's very easy to sit in a chair and criticize.
Not that I disagree with some of the things he said, but it's one thing to say it and another to do it.
I don't think a single person said it was easy. But the moves this team has made can not be excused. If you want to be a contending team, why on earth would you hire Gauthier? There is a blueprint to build a team..this goes for every sport. There are key pieces that are required. The Habs have needed certain pieces for a decade and have failed to attain them. I can't accept that.

The goal is to win the cup. That's not saying I expect to win one. But I simply can't defend a team that's built to contend for the 8th spot and maybe win a series in the playoffs. It's not easy, especially when your coach and GM have to be able to speak French and you hire guys like Gauthier to build your team.

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01-21-2012, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I agree with you and with Savard 100%. Carefull what you say though as many of the folks around here are happy just making it into the playoffs and we get labeled as bad and needy fans etc. Savard has a point and I feel Bowman helped breed that in his players. This organization needs a complete overhaul and our new coach and GM need to let the media know that they are running the ship and they (the media) can go take a long walk off a short pier if they don't like it regardless of the story they want to spin up on it. I feel that may also help to bring in more top talent.
Ridiculous.

No one wants to just make the playoffs.

People would rather a team make the playoffs than tank. I myself, for three reasons.

1) If you tank, guess what your chance is of winning the Stanley Cup? 0%. If you finish 1st, 5th, or 8th, you have the same chance to win the Stanley Cup. If you're goalie goes on a hot streak, there's always a chance. If Halak wasn't basically a rookie (or even Price in his first appearance) maybe the Habs go further than they did.

2) A losing mentality sticks. You tank on purpose, you really think the players who you believe are the "core" are going to stick around? Good luck, especially when they could probably make more money elsewhere. If we tanked on purpose, you think Erik Cole is going to want to give it his all like he does every night right now? Not a ****ing chance.

3) This one is simple but I'll use some help to describe the final point.



PS. And I'm glad most players feel this way too.

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01-21-2012, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I don't think a single person said it was easy. But the moves this team has made can not be excused. If you want to be a contending team, why on earth would you hire Gauthier? There is a blueprint to build a team..this goes for every sport. There are key pieces that are required. The Habs have needed certain pieces for a decade and have failed to attain them. I can't accept that.

The goal is to win the cup. That's not saying I expect to win one. But I simply can't defend a team that's built to contend for the 8th spot and maybe win a series in the playoffs. It's not easy, especially when your coach and GM have to be able to speak French and you hire guys like Gauthier to build your team.
The French/English thing shouldn't come into this, but it does...it puts the Habs at a serious disadvantage each and every time they evaluate who to hire...and here we all think it's about winning games...shame on us...

I understand the language thing, but it's very unfortunate for the team and organization.

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01-21-2012, 09:24 AM
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If you want an example of the Savards' commitment to winning just check out the PEI Rocket's success stories....1 playoff series won in like a decade, went from selling out every game and are now down to less then 40% capacity, about 1500 per game...Serge Jr is running the team into the ground and has shown he is bar none the worst GM in the league...rebuilding every year so they say..

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01-21-2012, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I don't think a single person said it was easy. But the moves this team has made can not be excused. If you want to be a contending team, why on earth would you hire Gauthier? There is a blueprint to build a team..this goes for every sport. There are key pieces that are required. The Habs have needed certain pieces for a decade and have failed to attain them. I can't accept that.

The goal is to win the cup. That's not saying I expect to win one. But I simply can't defend a team that's built to contend for the 8th spot and maybe win a series in the playoffs. It's not easy, especially when your coach and GM have to be able to speak French and you hire guys like Gauthier to build your team.
Of course the goal is to win the cup. You think PG is sitting in his office thinking of how to make his team not win the cup but make the POs every year??

Everybody has a blueprint of what it takes to win the cup. I bet you nobody has ''luck'' on that blueprint, and it's probably the most important factor.
Some teams may value size and aggression over speed and skills, some might see it the other way around, some might think it's a good mix of both, some might think it's the bottom liners that will make you win because the top lines of each team will usually cancel each other out.

In any event, it's all easy to have a blueprint. Getting the players that not only fit that blueprint but also have the mental toughness to go all the way is not an easy task.


I take seasons like this year's as a blessing in disguise. One that can perhaps bring us a lotto pick, where we can trade some players at the deadline, like Gill and Moen, in order to give us more assets come draft day. But at the same time, we have a good enough core to be competitive next year if we wanted with a few adjustments.

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01-21-2012, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
There is a blueprint to build a team..this goes for every sport. There are key pieces that are required.
Chris Boucher has done a great job on what the anatomy of a winning team looks like:

http://www.boucherscouting.com/2012/...orer-rule.html

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01-21-2012, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Of course the goal is to win the cup. You think PG is sitting in his office thinking of how to make his team not win the cup but make the POs every year??

Everybody has a blueprint of what it takes to win the cup. I bet you nobody has ''luck'' on that blueprint, and it's probably the most important factor.
Some teams may value size and aggression over speed and skills, some might see it the other way around, some might think it's a good mix of both, some might think it's the bottom liners that will make you win because the top lines of each team will usually cancel each other out.

In any event, it's all easy to have a blueprint. Getting the players that not only fit that blueprint but also have the mental toughness to go all the way is not an easy task.


I take seasons like this year's as a blessing in disguise. One that can perhaps bring us a lotto pick, where we can trade some players at the deadline, like Gill and Moen, in order to give us more assets come draft day. But at the same time, we have a good enough core to be competitive next year if we wanted with a few adjustments.
Everyone wants to win the cup. I want to be wealthy....but it means nothing if I don't actually set up a legitimate path on how to achieve that goal.

I truly think the Habs goal is to be competitive, not to win the cup. That's a far off goal that is unattainable for this team. There's no way you go into the season with that D and DD as your 2nd line center and truly believe you will win a cup.

There's nothing that shows me that this team has gone all in in an attempt to win the cup. I see lateral moves and bandaids.

Again, there is a blueprint to build a team. You need solid drafting, you need good goaltending, you need at least one elite dman. You need a solid 4th line. You need skilled players in the top 6 and good centermen with size and skill who are good in the faceoff circle. You need this to compete year in and year out.

Just like in football. You need a franchise QB, a stud RB, an o-line, etc....yes you can win in other ways. However, to be able to contend year in and year out you need certain pieces.

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01-21-2012, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Gregoire77 View Post
If you want an example of the Savards' commitment to winning just check out the PEI Rocket's success stories....1 playoff series won in like a decade, went from selling out every game and are now down to less then 40% capacity, about 1500 per game...Serge Jr is running the team into the ground and has shown he is bar none the worst GM in the league...rebuilding every year so they say..
What the hell does his son has anything to do with him ?

Hey look, Gretzky's son sucks in hockey, that shows you Wayne was a bad player !

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01-21-2012, 10:03 AM
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I think that there are sheep that go to games and have no clue about hockey what's so ever. In Montreal a Habs game is the hottest ticket in town. Until that changes as it did then Molson sold the first time around, they can make as many stupid trades and suck ass and people will still go..

But Savard is right, it can change as it did back when Molson sold and unless G.Molson does something to make the team win, it will happen again. I'm already getting fed up. And not with the score sheet. I'll accept the Habs not making the platy-offs "IF" I agree with the way management runs the team. It's one thing to build a winning team and fail. It's another things to trade or sign underachievers or have-beens and EXPECT to win.

But Maybe Molson knows that he can purposely get bad players, suck a few seasons, get a few 1st 2nd overall picks in the draft and still sell out BECAUSE they have the hottest ticket in town.

Washington sucks for a while, got good draft positions and got better. Same for Pittsburgh, Chicago, Edmonton, etc.. Maybe that is their plan.. Trade to lose but have enough talent to save face...

Anyways, I'm going to give G.Molson a year or two to prove himself, but I am not going to defend Gauthier for his stupid comments and trades. I'm a Hab fan, but I'm not a stupid sheep. If the team I cheer for has little interest in winning a cup, then I'll start to cheer for a team who does.. Period...

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01-21-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregoire77 View Post
If you want an example of the Savards' commitment to winning just check out the PEI Rocket's success stories....1 playoff series won in like a decade, went from selling out every game and are now down to less then 40% capacity, about 1500 per game...Serge Jr is running the team into the ground and has shown he is bar none the worst GM in the league...rebuilding every year so they say..
Surely Serge's son is a different person from Serge himself.... I don't think he has a hand in his son's management group.

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01-21-2012, 10:16 AM
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Ridiculous.

No one wants to just make the playoffs.
Then why are we trading for Thomas Kaberle?

I mean seriously man... why make this move if it's not soley designed to sneak into 8th place?
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
People would rather a team make the playoffs than tank. I myself, for three reasons.

1) If you tank, guess what your chance is of winning the Stanley Cup? 0%. If you finish 1st, 5th, or 8th, you have the same chance to win the Stanley Cup. If you're goalie goes on a hot streak, there's always a chance. If Halak wasn't basically a rookie (or even Price in his first appearance) maybe the Habs go further than they did.
Then why in 40 years has a last place playoff team never won a cup? And why in the world should you rely on luck as a strategy?

You have a zero percent chance of winning the lottery if you don't buy a ticket. That doesn't mean I should go out and mortgage my fortune on buying as many as I can.

Be practical man.
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2) A losing mentality sticks. You tank on purpose, you really think the players who you believe are the "core" are going to stick around? Good luck, especially when they could probably make more money elsewhere. If we tanked on purpose, you think Erik Cole is going to want to give it his all like he does every night right now? Not a ****ing chance.
No it doesn't. When you replace the old vets with new kids you start over... that's the point. It worked in NJ, Detroit, Colorado, Pittsburgh and Chicago.

When you start building with PRIME TALENT that's when you have a shot at getting better. Without that talent it's going to be a lot harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
3) This one is simple but I'll use some help to describe the final point.



PS. And I'm glad most players feel this way too.
And so does everyone. NOBODY wants us to 'tank' and it's not what Savard suggested either. We want players and coaches to do everything they can to win. They are the footsoldiers and it's their responsibility to claw for every win.

The generals however have to be more strategic. You can't build a team of Saku Koivu, Chris Higgins and Kovalev and expect to win. Sorry, it's just NOT going to happen. And when you replace that core with Gomez, Cammy and Gionta it will be no different.

How in the world does replacing those guys with what we did signal anything else but trying to stay the same and 'just make the playoffs?' How much of the same movie do you have to see before you figure out you know how it's going to end?

It's not the players fault. You can't expect Saku Koivu to turn into Evgeni Malkin. Chris Higgins is never going to be Johnathan Toews. Nobody is blamng the players... it's management's fault.

Again, what is it we're trying to win? The players should play to win the game. Management should be trying to figure out how to win a cup. It's two different things we're talking about here.

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01-21-2012, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
I agree with you and with Savard 100%. Carefull what you say though as many of the folks around here are happy just making it into the playoffs and we get labeled as bad and needy fans etc. Savard has a point and I feel Bowman helped breed that in his players. This organization needs a complete overhaul and our new coach and GM need to let the media know that they are running the ship and they (the media) can go take a long walk off a short pier if they don't like it regardless of the story they want to spin up on it. I feel that may also help to bring in more top talent.
Add 14 more teams, add one huge salary cap and subtract the 1970s, and it becomes pointless to label the season a "Failure" if you don't win the Cup. This season, there are approx. seven or eight teams who have done everything right. They have powerful rosters that combine home-grown and acquired talent, and they are legitimate Cup contenders. Yet none of those teams - except one - will win the Cup. Our goal -- our REALISTIC goal -- is to become one of those teams, and then enjoy some great hockey, knowing our team has done its best, and let skill and luck decide the rest.

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01-21-2012, 10:25 AM
  #21
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Chris Boucher has done a great job on what the anatomy of a winning team looks like:

http://www.boucherscouting.com/2012/...orer-rule.html
"Researching the past 4 seasons, I found that 27 teams have had one player with at least 40 goals."
"Expressed differently, this shows that teams with a 40-goal scorer have a 70% chance of making the playoffs."


Montreal hasn't had a 40 goal scorer in so long I even stop trying to remember...

"Researching the past 4 seasons, we find that 35 teams have had a minimum of two players with at least 30 goals. Of those 35 teams, twenty-seven have made the playoffs. This shows us that teams with at least two 30-goal scorers have a 77% chance of making the playoffs."

When was the last time you looked at the end of the season and saw 2 players on the Habs with 30 goals scored????

"The past four seasons have shown that the combination with the best odds of making the playoffs consists of at least two 30-goal scorers among at least ten 10-goal scorers. Over the past four seasons, only one of the sixteen teams with that combination missed the playoffs. In other words, teams with this combination have a 94% chance of making the playoffs."

The more and more I read, the more I see the Habs are lucky to even make the play-offs when they do.

And to finish off,"no team has played in the Finals without having had at least ten 10-goal scorers during the regular season."

Well lets look at a few stats since the lock-out:

2010-2011
9 players with at least 10 goals.
no players with 30 or more goals.

2009-2010
8 players with at least 10 goals.
no players with 30 or more goals.

2008-2009
11 players with at least 10 goals.
no players with 30 or more goals.

2007-2008
9 players with at least 10 goals.
1 players with 30 or more goals (kovalev).

2006-2007
10 players with at least 10 goals.
1 players with 30 or more goals (Ryder).

2005-2006
11 players with at least 10 goals.
1 players with 30 or more goals (Ryder).

PATHETIC!!!!!!!


Last edited by Belso: 01-21-2012 at 10:30 AM.
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01-21-2012, 10:30 AM
  #22
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It isn't that some people are happy just making the playoffs. If you don't think everyone wants to win the cup then you are nuts.

But some folks believe a 6th to 8th place team has as much chance as any if playing hot with a hot goalie. Others feel we need to be a top 5 team in the NHL year in and out and I don't disagree with them, it would help the odds considerably. But don't try to spin it as people being just happy with a first round exit. Everyone wants to win the cup. (duh)
How many times do we have to watch other clubs with elite players (regardless of how they got them) win cups before we realize that we have to have those players too?
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
In this day of 30 teams, this is all easier said than done...Serge has a passion for the Habs, but even he at the end of his time, was starting to make some wild decisions...

Being away for awhile, I believe has given him some perspective...the one thing he didn't have to deal with, was the media circus, and the internet like they do now...

I would like to see him come back in an advisors role of some sort, to the GM....and have Scotty Bowman come with him.
Easier said than done? Sure.

But there's no excuse as to why we haven't been truly competitive (apart from one fluke season sandwiched between a playoff miss and 8th place finish) for 15 years. It's one thing to not win a cup, it's another to sit through 15 years of mediocrity.

That is NOT acceptable.

And yet... people ARE accepting it. And what's worse people are actually defending it.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Of course the goal is to win the cup. You think PG is sitting in his office thinking of how to make his team not win the cup but make the POs every year??
I think he isn't even thinking about the cup right now. His moves give me no reason to believe otherwise this season. There doesn't seem to be any long term plan for him at all. Kaberle is exhibit A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Everybody has a blueprint of what it takes to win the cup. I bet you nobody has ''luck'' on that blueprint, and it's probably the most important factor.
Some teams may value size and aggression over speed and skills, some might see it the other way around, some might think it's a good mix of both, some might think it's the bottom liners that will make you win because the top lines of each team will usually cancel each other out.
Want to know why that is? You can't plan for it. If you get good luck, great run with it. But to build 8th place teams and then hope to get lucky in the playoffs is a very flawed strategy. When you've got an inferior team you may get lucky and win a series or even two but sooner or later your luck runs out.

Moreover, good teams can overcome bad luck to win.
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In any event, it's all easy to have a blueprint. Getting the players that not only fit that blueprint but also have the mental toughness to go all the way is not an easy task.
It's a lot easier when you have top picks to work with. Instead of trading for prospects and picks though we continue to go the quick fix route.
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I take seasons like this year's as a blessing in disguise. One that can perhaps bring us a lotto pick, where we can trade some players at the deadline, like Gill and Moen, in order to give us more assets come draft day. But at the same time, we have a good enough core to be competitive next year if we wanted with a few adjustments.
Competitive for what?

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01-21-2012, 10:44 AM
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Em Ancien
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I don't know if I'd want Savard as GM, but anywhere in the org that doesn't have day-to-day duties with the team would be a pretty good spot.

Roy is a serious candidate that always gets ridiculed by people because some others blindly throw the name. IMO he's going to get a long look at either GM or coach this offseason.

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01-21-2012, 10:49 AM
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Competitive for what?
Being a Top team is no more something "stable".
The aim is probably to be (average-wise) a Top-5 team (in the Conference) for a rather long period. And during those years, there will be lows (7th, 8th finishes) and high (1st, 2nd, so on).

That reeks "upper tier" thing.
But upper tier means being there for a long period of time. Not only for one season.

That's exactly what we should be looking for. Aiming for best team in the conference... will only bring disappointments.

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01-21-2012, 10:50 AM
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I don't know if I'd want Savard as GM, but anywhere in the org that doesn't have day-to-day duties with the team would be a pretty good spot.

Roy is a serious candidate that always gets ridiculed by people because some others blindly throw the name. IMO he's going to get a long look at either GM or coach this offseason.
My biggest gripe with Roy is that he doesn't outcoach his colleagues in the Q on a regular basis.

Groulx would be a better choice.

But the org. gets better the minute Roy steps in, somewhere. Not sure I'd want him as a coach, though.

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