HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Florida, Tampa arenas housing the homeless?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-23-2012, 07:11 PM
  #26
Killion
Global Moderator
Semolina Pilchard
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Eiffel Tower
Posts: 21,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
Just a sampling of what I was referring to earlier.
Huh. Thanks for the links. Interesting & provocative. I can only assume by his actions that Senator Bennett may well have grander ambitions, be it the Governors Mansion or Federal Politics...

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-23-2012, 08:18 PM
  #27
dj4aces
Registered User
 
dj4aces's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,896
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dj4aces Send a message via AIM to dj4aces Send a message via MSN to dj4aces Send a message via Yahoo to dj4aces
This is a non-issue if those municipalities already have a homeless program.

dj4aces is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 01:40 PM
  #28
Major4Boarding
Global Moderator
Private Equity
 
Major4Boarding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Heaven
Country: Scotland
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
Update - Made it out of Committee "Favorably" with an 8-0 vote (shocking!).

Pending reference review as they made a slight "amendment" to the bill, or tack on if you will... you'll love this one.

Quote:
The Committee on Community Affairs (Bennett) recommended the following:

Senate Amendment (with title amendment)

Between lines 79 and 80 insert:

Section 2. Broadcast blackouts prohibited at publicly financed facilities

(1) A new or retained professional sports franchise using a facility that receives public funding under s. 212.20(6)(d)6., Florida Statutes, or the franchise’s league may not prohibit television or radio broadcasts of a game played in the facility in areas near the facility due to insufficient ticket sales.

(2) If the professional sports franchise or its league violates this section, the professional sports franchise is subject to a fine by the county in which the facility is located in the amount of $125,000 per violation. A fine assessed under this section must be paid by the franchise before it plays the first regular season game of the next season in the publicly financed facility.
There's more but not gonna copy and paste the whole thing

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill...ent/362006/PDF

Original Bill prior to "Amendment"

God, I love living here!

http://www2.tbo.com/news/sports/2012...she-ar-350459/


Last edited by Major4Boarding: 01-24-2012 at 01:59 PM.
Major4Boarding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 02:56 PM
  #29
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,773
vCash: 350
Just to clarify...

Is the purpose of this law to provide a homeless shelter when there are no events planned in the facility ( meaning people being moved in and out all the time ) OR just as a homeless shelter in the case of a natural disaster or pending natural disaster ( so people would move in for just the time around the disaster )?

If it is only in case of a natural disaster, I'm not sure what the issue is, because IMO if there is a disaster there will be a cancellation of all events in the facility anyways. So it would be vacant to house the homeless. Or is there more costs involved, like the people that run the facility have to have all the infrastructure in storage to be able to house people at a moments notice.

cbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 03:10 PM
  #30
garnetpalmetto
HFBoards Sponsor
 
garnetpalmetto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Durham, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 4,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4aces View Post
This is a non-issue if those municipalities already have a homeless program.
Of course if provisions of this bill allow local/state government to cut funding to municipal homeless programs...

garnetpalmetto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 04:53 PM
  #31
DeathToAllButMetal
Let it all burn.
 
DeathToAllButMetal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,347
vCash: 500
Another 10-20 years of the cratering economy and most US arenas will be filled with homeless people.

DeathToAllButMetal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 07:02 PM
  #32
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddGillForever View Post
Another 10-20 years of the cratering economy and most US arenas will be filled with homeless people.
This would be a better idea in Glendale than just boarding up the arena as the mayor wants to do if the Coyotes relocate.

blues10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2012, 07:37 PM
  #33
Killion
Global Moderator
Semolina Pilchard
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Eiffel Tower
Posts: 21,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Major4Boarding View Post
God, I love living here!
Good attitude!...

now, whatdya' wanna bet the author of Sec.2
grew up in Chicago a Black Hawks fan?.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2012, 12:12 PM
  #34
Boltsfan2029
Registered User
 
Boltsfan2029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In deleted threads
Country: United States
Posts: 6,281
vCash: 698
If a regular, day-to-day shelter for the homeless: I wonder how much it will cost the taxpayers to pay the salaries of the police and other people who will have to move the homeless in and out of the buildings so they will be available for events?

And I guess each team is going to have to employ and pay extra workers to clean the buildings after the temporary residents leave and before the public is allowed in for the events.

And... where do the residents *go* while they're ousted from their shelter while events are going on?

Who feeds the residents while they're staying there? Will there be a limit on how long they can live there, or will the arenas/stadiums just become permanent dwellings? If they're permanent dwellings, wouldn't they then be the residents' homes, meaning they're no longer homeless? So they'd have to cram even more homeless people in to comply with the law? What a can of worms!

If for natural disasters/emergencies only, I can't see where any building would object to housing folks temporarily. Of course, they'd hopefully have better planning and security than they did in New Orleans, where they had to put up with filth, *****, etc.

As someone posted earlier, it's also my impression that no state funds were used to build our arena. I'll have to look that up and see if I can find any info on it.

Boltsfan2029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2012, 02:34 PM
  #35
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 55,564
vCash: 500
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...190038743.html

Puck Daddy with some excerpts of a few articles on the issue. (Mainly emphasizing Panthers.)

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2012, 04:25 PM
  #36
jol
Registered User
 
jol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
If a regular, day-to-day shelter for the homeless: I wonder how much it will cost the taxpayers to pay the salaries of the police and other people who will have to move the homeless in and out of the buildings so they will be available for events?

And I guess each team is going to have to employ and pay extra workers to clean the buildings after the temporary residents leave and before the public is allowed in for the events.

And... where do the residents *go* while they're ousted from their shelter while events are going on?

Who feeds the residents while they're staying there? Will there be a limit on how long they can live there, or will the arenas/stadiums just become permanent dwellings? If they're permanent dwellings, wouldn't they then be the residents' homes, meaning they're no longer homeless? So they'd have to cram even more homeless people in to comply with the law? What a can of worms!

If for natural disasters/emergencies only, I can't see where any building would object to housing folks temporarily. Of course, they'd hopefully have better planning and security than they did in New Orleans, where they had to put up with filth, *****, etc.

As someone posted earlier, it's also my impression that no state funds were used to build our arena. I'll have to look that up and see if I can find any info on it.
I don't think state hasn't been funding to build arenas, state gives each professional team $2 million per year as sales tax rebate.
Simple solution for teams, going forward, don't take that rebate.

JOL

jol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2012, 04:32 PM
  #37
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
 
TheMoreYouKnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Eire
Posts: 8,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
This would be a better idea in Glendale than just boarding up the arena as the mayor wants to do if the Coyotes relocate.
Yeah if you want to create an extension to Batman: Arkham Asylum.

TheMoreYouKnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2012, 04:37 PM
  #38
Boltsfan2029
Registered User
 
Boltsfan2029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In deleted threads
Country: United States
Posts: 6,281
vCash: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by jol View Post
I don't think state hasn't been funding to build arenas, state gives each professional team $2 million per year as sales tax rebate.
Simple solution for teams, going forward, don't take that rebate.

JOL
Hmm. The bill says:
Quote:
"Any professional sports facility constructed with financial assistance from the State of Florida shall be designated as a shelter site for the homeless in accordance with the criteria of locally existing homeless shelter programs, except when the facility is otherwise contractually obligated for a specific event or activity."
I haven't seen anything about tax rebates - not saying it's not there, just that I haven't seen it.

Boltsfan2029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2012, 05:12 PM
  #39
jol
Registered User
 
jol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Hmm. The bill says:

I haven't seen anything about tax rebates - not saying it's not there, just that I haven't seen it.
I could be wrong but this tax rebate is tied to new arena, i.e. Panthers started receiving it after Sunrise arena was built and they will get that for next 30 years (actually till 2028 or something). I'm not sure how Marlins managed to get that earlier, i think they did some renovations in Joe Robbie and now of course they have a new stadium.

JOL

jol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2012, 06:23 PM
  #40
Boltsfan2029
Registered User
 
Boltsfan2029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In deleted threads
Country: United States
Posts: 6,281
vCash: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by jol View Post
I could be wrong but this tax rebate is tied to new arena, i.e. Panthers started receiving it after Sunrise arena was built and they will get that for next 30 years (actually till 2028 or something). I'm not sure how Marlins managed to get that earlier, i think they did some renovations in Joe Robbie and now of course they have a new stadium.

JOL
Oh, I have no doubt the tax rebate exists. But how could rebates be considered as having been used to construct the arenas/stadiums if they weren't received until after the buildings were constructed? My perception is that to apply, the teams/owners/whoever had to receive state funds in order to build the facility. It's my understanding that no state funds or taxes were used to construct our building.

All too confusing...

Boltsfan2029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2012, 06:37 PM
  #41
Killion
Global Moderator
Semolina Pilchard
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Eiffel Tower
Posts: 21,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
So they'd have to cram even more homeless people in to comply with the law? What a can of worms.
They'll just hang out around the arena, aggressively panhandling, breaking into cars, much as they do around Rogers Arena in Vancouver... then theres the health concerns. I cant imagine Miami Dade or anywhere else for that matter approving in-stadia shelters with the exception of a natural disaster, extreme emergency, with portable washrooms & shower facilities, hygenic food safe delivery systems, on-site medical facilities & EMT personnel, fire, police and private security. Its completely impracticable. They'd be better off using the money to execute to actually establish 24/7 shelters with social workers & services to those in need dontchathink?!... This is nothing but political grandstanding of the worst kind....

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2012, 08:52 AM
  #42
jol
Registered User
 
jol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
Posts: 1,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Oh, I have no doubt the tax rebate exists. But how could rebates be considered as having been used to construct the arenas/stadiums if they weren't received until after the buildings were constructed? My perception is that to apply, the teams/owners/whoever had to receive state funds in order to build the facility. It's my understanding that no state funds or taxes were used to construct our building.

All too confusing...
I found following, maybe rebate is being used for bond payments:

"Update: April 26, 2007: The Florida House of Representatives voted 86 to 24 to approve the $60 million sales tax rebate over thirty years to close the funding gap for a new Marlins ballpark. The rebate is based on a new ballpark generating an estimated $9 million in sales tax annually. This bill does not specify a location for the new ballpark."

http://www.projectballpark.org/future/miami.html

JOL

jol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2012, 12:07 PM
  #43
Ludwig Fell Down
Registered User
 
Ludwig Fell Down's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South Shore, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
They'll just hang out around the arena, aggressively panhandling, breaking into cars, much as they do around Rogers Arena in Vancouver... then theres the health concerns. I cant imagine Miami Dade or anywhere else for that matter approving in-stadia shelters with the exception of a natural disaster, extreme emergency, with portable washrooms & shower facilities, hygenic food safe delivery systems, on-site medical facilities & EMT personnel, fire, police and private security. Its completely impracticable. They'd be better off using the money to execute to actually establish 24/7 shelters with social workers & services to those in need dontchathink?!... This is nothing but political grandstanding of the worst kind....
A Modest Proposal to end homelessness. More practical than the proposed solution.

Ludwig Fell Down is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2012, 04:43 PM
  #44
Major4Boarding
Global Moderator
Private Equity
 
Major4Boarding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Heaven
Country: Scotland
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...190038743.html

Puck Daddy with some excerpts of a few articles on the issue. (Mainly emphasizing Panthers.)
I think, on the surface, the emphasis was on the Panthers because of their history, financially.

This is Florida. When it comes to elected officials, and political happenings, I wouldn't rule anything out. However, looking from the outside in at this bill one cannot think otherwise that this whole thing is nothing more than grandstanding. Yet another opportunity for Sen. Bennett to use his position to further his cause and his resolve when it comes to subsidies for professional franchises.

Yet it's futile. And I get the impression he knows it is, yet proceeding anyway. So he can say to his fellow constituents, and to those in his district that he plausibly did something. Or just teeing this up for his next salvo, a class action lawsuit against the Counties/Franchises for non compliance and the NFL Teams/NFL for their blackout policies. Depending on how far that goes, doesn't he run the risk of burning thru taxpayer monies in legal fees... forseeably equal to the amount he's trying to recoup (again, depending how far it goes)?

Dissecting this whole thing, one has to only look into the challenges this bill faces despite passing unanimously (of course it did, that's his committee).

1) It still has 2 to 3 more Committees to go to for review before it hits the floor.

2) The part "if a local homeless program does not exist in that county" is up for contesting. Everywhere there is a State/County/Taxpayer funded Franchise there's already a homeless coalition to begin with. Perhaps it's matter of interpretation again of what or how that "coalition" is supposed to be.

3) If this slips through 1 and 2, now you're going to tangle with the NFL over their Blackout polices? Little Bear vs. Big Bear on that one.

4) He runs a big risk of butting heads with those within his own party by doing this. While he may have the backing of his fellow committee members, some of which vehemently oppose the Destination Resort/Casino Bill by the way, those who are in favor of that Casino bill will no doubt see this as a squeaky wheel.

Major4Boarding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-26-2012, 04:50 PM
  #45
Major4Boarding
Global Moderator
Private Equity
 
Major4Boarding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Heaven
Country: Scotland
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029

Oh, I have no doubt the tax rebate exists. But how could rebates be considered as having been used to construct the arenas/stadiums if they weren't received until after the buildings were constructed? My perception is that to apply, the teams/owners/whoever had to receive state funds in order to build the facility. It's my understanding that no state funds or taxes were used to construct our building.

All too confusing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jol View Post
I found following, maybe rebate is being used for bond payments:

"Update: April 26, 2007: The Florida House of Representatives voted 86 to 24 to approve the $60 million sales tax rebate over thirty years to close the funding gap for a new Marlins ballpark. The rebate is based on a new ballpark generating an estimated $9 million in sales tax annually. This bill does not specify a location for the new ballpark."

http://www.projectballpark.org/future/miami.html

JOL
Found this which may lend a little insight to BF2029's post

From the FL Dept of Revenue

https://apps.fldfs.com/fsaa/searchCa....aspx?id=40376

Major4Boarding is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.