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Trade Proposals and Rumours Part XXI

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Old
01-23-2012, 09:24 PM
  #251
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Parise really said that he doesn't like Canadian teams, or did he say Canadian markets? That is an odd thing to say.

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01-23-2012, 09:26 PM
  #252
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NJ wants roster players so realitically lets juts forget about sending away our 1st round pick as a starting point.

Foligno
Lee
Da costa
2nd 2012/2013 take ur pick
maybe throw in puempel if it turns into a bidding war

that is 2-3 roster players (depending on whether you believe da costa can play big time) a pick and a solid prospect

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01-23-2012, 09:39 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Spezza19 View Post
Parise really said that he doesn't like Canadian teams, or did he say Canadian markets? That is an odd thing to say.
Did he say that?

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01-23-2012, 09:43 PM
  #254
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All Jack Campbell is right now is an example of why teams should stop overvaluing WJC performances and taking goalies in the top 10. I'm not talking about Vasilevsky (sp?) either, at 17 that guy is more talented than Campbell is right now.

Those names may not be what they are after but that's probably pretty close to the pieces.



They might have a hard time getting more back. LA overpaid for Penner and he wasn't a UFA like Hemsky is.
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Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap View Post
Penner had anothe year on his contract and came without the health concerns. Not the same kind of circumstances at all. Poor comparison.

This team shouldn't be mortgaging the future for UFAs. Period. End of discussion.

Seems to me that Parise has made it pretty clear he'll test the market. Wait till then to make your bid.
totally ignored the fact that Hemsky is a pending UFA. I'd still be willing to bet that they'll get a nice return for him if they decide to trade him (especially if Parise isn't moved, then Hemsky becomes one of the top available players).

Move along.

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01-23-2012, 09:47 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Spezz101 View Post
NJ wants roster players so realitically lets juts forget about sending away our 1st round pick as a starting point.

Foligno
Lee
Da costa
2nd 2012/2013 take ur pick
maybe throw in puempel if it turns into a bidding war

that is 2-3 roster players (depending on whether you believe da costa can play big time) a pick and a solid prospect
You can't just load up a whole bunch of junk and hope that quantity trumps quality. Parise is a legit star in his prime.

Start with Zibanejad and a 1st rounder as a minimum. If you don't like the price, then don't bother getting in the game.

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01-23-2012, 09:49 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
You can't just load up a whole bunch of junk and hope that quantity trumps quality. Parise is a legit star in his prime.

Start with Zibanejad and a 1st rounder as a minimum. If you don't like the price, then don't bother getting in the game.
He is going to be a UFA. No way does he return that package. Look at what other star rentals brought in like Hossa and Kovalchuk.

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01-23-2012, 09:55 PM
  #257
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He is going to be a UFA. No way does he return that package. Look at what other star rentals brought in like Hossa and Kovalchuk.
Funny. In both the deals you mentioned, a 1st round pick and a top prospect (former 1st rounder) were included along with roster players.

Thanks for proving my point.

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01-23-2012, 09:57 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
You can't just load up a whole bunch of junk and hope that quantity trumps quality. Parise is a legit star in his prime.

Start with Zibanejad and a 1st rounder as a minimum. If you don't like the price, then don't bother getting in the game.
Kovalchuk and Hossa didn't return a top 10 prospect in their rental deals. Imagine if they had? Hossa leaves for Detroit and Kovalchuk almost went elsewhere.

I'm not sure what team that would be in the running for signing Parise would have a prospect of Zibanejad's caliber to hand over in a deal. And no one is handing over a high end prospect like that for a guy they know won't be there beyond the playoffs.

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01-23-2012, 10:04 PM
  #259
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Obviously Ottawa wouldn't be going after Parise without the stated goal of doing everything in their power to sign him longterm. There is a distinct advantage the acquiring team has to have 3-4 months to integrate the player into the lockeroom and the city. The Sens have the cap space and resources to give Parise the contract he's looking for.

I'm not saying they should do it but you can't look at this kind of deal as a rental. If they really wanted to get him, they'd be looking to add him as a longterm piece and they would put forth the assets and resources in order to make that happen.

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01-23-2012, 10:11 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
Obviously Ottawa wouldn't be going after Parise without the stated goal of doing everything in their power to sign him longterm. There is a distinct advantage the acquiring team has to have 3-4 months to integrate the player into the lockeroom and the city. The Sens have the cap space and resources to give Parise the contract he's looking for.

I'm not saying they should do it but you can't look at this kind of deal as a rental. If they really wanted to get him, they'd be looking to add him as a longterm piece and they would put forth the assets and resources in order to make that happen.
Of course.

You can't give up a top 10 prospect for a UFA to be though. No one is going to do it.

Kovalchuk stayed in NJ. They paid Oduya, 1st, Cormier and Bergfors

That's a far cry some adding a recent 6th overall pick.

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01-23-2012, 10:30 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Of course.

You can't give up a top 10 prospect for a UFA to be though. No one is going to do it.

Kovalchuk stayed in NJ. They paid Oduya, 1st, Cormier and Bergfors

That's a far cry some adding a recent 6th overall pick.
It may not be completely equal but at the time of the trade Bergfors was a highly touted young NHL player in the middle of a fairly remarkable rookie season.

It doesn't have to be Zibanejad necessarily (although I'm sure that's who NJ would insist upon as a starting point) but upcoming UFA or not, you are going to need to include value in a deal for a player of Parise's calibre. You can't just throw a bunch of unwanted pieces like that earlier poster did and think that Jersey will be happy to take whatever scraps we offer them.

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01-23-2012, 10:38 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
It may not be completely equal but at the time of the trade Bergfors was a highly touted young NHL player in the middle of a fairly remarkable rookie season.

It doesn't have to be Zibanejad necessarily (although I'm sure that's who NJ would insist upon as a starting point) but upcoming UFA or not, you are going to need to include value in a deal for a player of Parise's calibre. You can't just throw a bunch of unwanted pieces like that earlier poster did and think that Jersey will be happy to take whatever scraps we offer them.
We'd be looking at value like 1st, Greening/Foligno, Noesen/Puempel and then maybe a bottom pairing, bottom 6 young player or prospect.

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01-23-2012, 10:43 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
We'd be looking at value like 1st, Greening/Foligno, Noesen/Puempel and then maybe a bottom pairing, bottom 6 young player or prospect.
More plausible than the junk offered up by the other poster.

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01-23-2012, 10:55 PM
  #264
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More plausible than the junk offered up by the other poster.
All I'm saying is I doubt anyone makes a deal for him that includes a player of Zibanejad's recent draft pedigree. Those picks are too important to the franchise to include in a deal for a rental. New Jersey will try, but of the teams that are interested it's unlikely anyone will feel like they have to give up an elite prospect.

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01-24-2012, 08:06 AM
  #265
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Anyone else hear the rumour on Sportsnet last night that Ottawa is very interested in Tuomo Ruutu?

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01-24-2012, 08:08 AM
  #266
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Anyone else hear the rumour on Sportsnet last night that Ottawa is very interested in Tuomo Ruutu?
i heard them talking about the option of a ruutu. i didn't hear them report on a rumor. was that a separate discussion?

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01-24-2012, 08:18 AM
  #267
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i heard them talking about the option of a ruutu. i didn't hear them report on a rumor. was that a separate discussion?
I thought they implied that Ottawa was pursuing him...but it was late and I was tired.

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01-24-2012, 08:26 AM
  #268
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Yeah they just suggested that the Leafs or Sens should go for Ruutu cause he's the perfect playoff player.

It got me thinking....Considering how thin the options are at the deadline (not including Suter, Parise, cause I don't think they'll be moved) this reminds me alot of this past July 1st, where B level players get into a bidding war with teams cause thats all thats available (see Sabres) and end up with very little substance, instead of cap space were talking good peices of the future.

Ruutu would be a perfect fit here true, but considering the options we would be bidding with 6-8 teams for his services, and I think the price will just become to high, and when he's gone Hemsky will be the next one.

Just not worth it given the options this year, stay the course!

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01-24-2012, 08:50 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
Ruutu would be a perfect fit here true, but considering the options we would be bidding with 6-8 teams for his services, and I think the price will just become to high, and when he's gone Hemsky will be the next one.

Just not worth it given the options this year, stay the course!
This is what scares me most about the trade deadline and Murray. As good as his record is at the draft or as a seller, he's got a pretty mediocre record as a deadline buyer. Don't really think this team needs that much, considering the sparse talent available this year. Terrified of losing the 1st, Silverberg, Puempel or some other part that Murray deems to be "tradeable" for the Hal Gill's and Tuomu Ruttu's of this world.

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01-24-2012, 09:03 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
Ruutu would be a perfect fit here true, but considering the options we would be bidding with 6-8 teams for his services, and I think the price will just become to high, and when he's gone Hemsky will be the next one.
Ruutu is more of what we already have in abundance within our top-9. What does 28yo Ruutu provide above:

27yo Michalek
24yo Foligno
25yo Greening
23yo Z.Smith

Because those 4 players look to be staples in our top-9 (working the boards, driving the net, screening the goalie, etc), mixed around the top-3 lines in whatever chemistry configurations a coach is likely to try. Not only that, we have Silfverberg, Zibanejad and Noeson coming behind them as our best forward prospects. All 3 projected to be gritty, 2-way, good along the boards. In addition to that; Chris Neil is 9th in ice time on our team ahead of Dauggy, Butler and the 4th line centres.

Meanwhile, the current finesse players in our top-9 are:
28yo Spezza
39yo Alfie - who is going to retire sometime within the next 18 months.
22yo Turris - who has been an effective offensive player for 1 whole month of his 3 1/2 year pro career.


When we lose Alfredsson, we're going to lose a dynamic offensive player who can control the play. Adding more big, power wingers to an already stacked lineup isn't going to replace him. We're going to need another player who can carry in the puck in and set up the play for the power guys.

In a bubble; that guy is Hemsky, not Ruutu.

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01-24-2012, 09:04 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
This is what scares me most about the trade deadline and Murray. As good as his record is at the draft or as a seller, he's got a pretty mediocre record as a deadline buyer. Don't really think this team needs that much, considering the sparse talent available this year. Terrified of losing the 1st, Silverberg, Puempel or some other part that Murray deems to be "tradeable" for the Hal Gill's and Tuomu Ruttu's of this world.
I know his record isn't the greatest but I still believe like many others on this forum that he is capable. Cullen and Sutton were good examples. Stillman and Comrie (the first time). He'll know when to draw the line. We're still retooling regardless of our success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Ruutu is more of what we already have in abundance within our top-9. What does 28yo Ruutu provide above:

27yo Michalek
24yo Foligno
25yo Greening
23yo Z.Smith

Because those 4 players look to be staples in our top-9 (working the boards, driving the net, screening the goalie, etc), mixed around the top-3 lines in whatever chemistry configurations a coach is likely to try. Not only that, we have Silfverberg, Zibanejad and Noeson coming behind them as our best forward prospects. All 3 projected to be gritty, 2-way, good along the boards. In addition to that; Chris Neil is 9th in ice time on our team ahead of Dauggy, Butler and the 4th line centres.

Meanwhile, the current finesse players in our top-9 are:
28yo Spezza
39yo Alfie - who is going to retire sometime within the next 18 months.
22yo Turris - who has been an effective offensive player for 1 whole month of his 3 1/2 year pro career.


When we lose Alfredsson, we're going to lose a dynamic offensive player who can control the play. Adding more big, power wingers to an already stacked lineup isn't going to replace him. We're going to need another player who can carry in the puck in and set up the play for the power guys.

In a bubble; that guy is Hemsky, not Ruutu.
While I see why you want to acquiring a finesse player, I still don't get why so many people are high on Mr. injury prone. He's been great when he's been playing but I always think of guys like Martin Havlat and Tim Connolly who never play a full season and fans just getting extremely frustrated with the fact that they aren't on the ice to contribute.


Last edited by Jason Squirtle: 01-24-2012 at 09:11 AM.
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01-24-2012, 09:05 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by JonnyMacSen View Post
Yeah they just suggested that the Leafs or Sens should go for Ruutu cause he's the perfect playoff player.

It got me thinking....Considering how thin the options are at the deadline (not including Suter, Parise, cause I don't think they'll be moved) this reminds me alot of this past July 1st, where B level players get into a bidding war with teams cause thats all thats available (see Sabres) and end up with very little substance, instead of cap space were talking good peices of the future.

Ruutu would be a perfect fit here true, but considering the options we would be bidding with 6-8 teams for his services, and I think the price will just become to high, and when he's gone Hemsky will be the next one.

Just not worth it given the options this year, stay the course!
THIS!

If we are going to pick up a player and pay a price - make it an A Level player, someone with long term impact (Ryan, Parise, Suter = but these guys are not really for us yet). Signed of course

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01-24-2012, 09:05 AM
  #273
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This puts me at ease alittle...

Quote:
With the Feb. 27 trade deadline approaching, the focus has changed and the Senators could be a buyer. That doesn’t mean Murray is going to spend wildly and if the Senators do anything, it might be a tweak.

“(Dealing) would come with one caveat. Let’s not lose focus of what our job is: That’s to rebuild,” said Melnyk. “The deal we made for Kyle Turris was more of an anomoly than anything else because we did give up a piece of our future and we weren’t going to be competitive without a second-line centre.

“We had to give something up. You tell me: Unless there is an injury here, I can’t see a void. If it isn’t broken, don’t try to to fix it. Even if we lose a couple in a row, it’s not the end of the world. We need to just keep grinding away. The ones that will succeed in the league, are the ones left standing.”

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/01/23/...n-rebuild-mode

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01-24-2012, 09:07 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
This is what scares me most about the trade deadline and Murray. As good as his record is at the draft or as a seller, he's got a pretty mediocre record as a deadline buyer. Don't really think this team needs that much, considering the sparse talent available this year. Terrified of losing the 1st, Silverberg, Puempel or some other part that Murray deems to be "tradeable" for the Hal Gill's and Tuomu Ruttu's of this world.
He has an excellent record as a deadline buyer, it's July 1st where he has the serious problems.

He's gotten moderately priced rentals for the most part like Stillman, Cullen and Sutton... and they've had a bigger impact than most deadline rentals ever do, particularly our previous rentals. Heck, we gave up less for each of those guys than we did for Tyler "Dog Crap" Arnason.

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01-24-2012, 09:09 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Ruutu is more of what we already have in abundance within our top-9. What does 28yo Ruutu provide above:

27yo Michalek
24yo Foligno
25yo Greening
23yo Z.Smith

Because those 4 players look to be staples in our top-9 (working the boards, driving the net, screening the goalie, etc), mixed around the top-3 lines in whatever chemistry configurations a coach is likely to try. Not only that, we have Silfverberg, Zibanejad and Noeson coming behind them as our best forward prospects. All 3 projected to be gritty, 2-way, good along the boards. In addition to that; Chris Neil is 9th in ice time on our team ahead of Dauggy, Butler and the 4th line centres.

Meanwhile, the current finesse players in our top-9 are:
28yo Spezza
39yo Alfie - who is going to retire sometime within the next 18 months.
22yo Turris - who has been an effective offensive player for 1 whole month of his 3 1/2 year pro career.


When we lose Alfredsson, we're going to lose a dynamic offensive player who can control the play. Adding more big, power wingers to an already stacked lineup isn't going to replace him. We're going to need another player who can carry in the puck in and set up the play for the power guys.

In a bubble; that guy is Hemsky, not Ruutu.
Probably true, but I'd rather draft our own Hemsky, or try to just sign him in the summer rather than give up good peices for him, or better yet just wait till next year because the options seem alot better and we'll be closer to a contender by then, I get what your saying though.

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