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Trade Proposals and Rumours Part XXI

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Old
01-22-2012, 05:47 PM
  #126
Pilgore88
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
1-Let's wait to 'get' until we actually have a chance of winning
2-Let's get a long term upgrade, not someone who is old/will leave in July.
I dont mean trade them for anyone. I mean it seems like people think we have 5 or 6 forward prospects who can't be moved because we are rebuilding and "need to stay the course". If we are able to get a player GMBM thinks can help this team now and in the future, these guys will be traded.

Rundblad was a guy we "couldn't trade" 2 months ago

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01-22-2012, 05:54 PM
  #127
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I don't want us trading for an expensive rental...but if a guy that can be a big part of our team for the next few years becomes available then I'm all for trading prospects/picks for that person. In that regard it is no different then any other trade (see Turris)....if X player becomes available then you do the trade. We only have so many spots on the roster and we should be able to trade from a good place not desperate like some teams might be this year that have spent a lot and were expecting to do better then they are.

Basically I'd go all in for Webber/Suter/Ryan etc but prospect plus high pick for a Ruutu Rental...not so much.

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Old
01-22-2012, 05:57 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
I dont mean trade them for anyone. I mean it seems like people think we have 5 or 6 forward prospects who can't be moved because we are rebuilding and "need to stay the course". If we are able to get a player GMBM thinks can help this team now and in the future, these guys will be traded.

Rundblad was a guy we "couldn't trade" 2 months ago
I'd be totally fine with that depending on the player. Because of all the prospect depth, trading quantity for quality would be great. Unfortunately there are probably no deals like that available. Da Costa + Puempel for Kane pipe dream I know

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Old
01-22-2012, 06:04 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Because he doesn't have a year left on his contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamok View Post
Because Penner and Fisher both had term on their contracts?
Well now I feel stupid.

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Old
01-22-2012, 06:09 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
This. Don't trade Da Costa for a rental I hate quick fixes. Really, how many more points would Ruutu put up over Greening? Not that many more. It's so not worth it to give Da Costa and a 2nd/whatever. This team isn't winning a Cup this year with or without Ruutu.

If you want to compete and not get embarrassed, get a good 4th line centre so we can actually roll 4 lines. Getting Ruutu/Prospal and putting Greening on the 4th line cuts Greening's production a lot and only improves the offense a bit. Getting a guy like Pahlsson would be much much cheaper (I'm hoping) than Prospal/Ruutu.

And Gill. Not a huge upgrade. It's not like Craig Schira is back there and Gill is taking his place.

Just let the kids play.
My thinking is replace Condra on the 2nd line not Greening. Condra would look alot better in the 3rd or 4th RW position taking the place of butler.

How much would Ryan Smyth cost and would he waive to come to Ottawa?

1. He would look great in front of the net on the PP

2. If Alfie retires after this year, Smyth's leadership would be a good option on a 1 year contract.

Greening/Spezza/Michalek
Smyth/Turris/Alfie
Foligno/Smith/Condra
Daugavins/Winchester/Neil

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Old
01-22-2012, 06:14 PM
  #131
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I expect Smyth would go right back to Edmonton in the off-season.

Probably wouldn't wanna pay up for him though. He's a guy I'd love to have though. No risk in the dressing room, instant respect, goes to the net, still plays at a high level.

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Old
01-22-2012, 06:15 PM
  #132
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What about Ladislav Smid & Ales Hemsky for Brian Lee, Stephane DaCosta and a high pick?

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Old
01-22-2012, 06:17 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by odhiambo View Post
What about Ladislav Smid & Ales Hemsky for Brian Lee, Stephane DaCosta and a high pick?
Edmonton laughs at us. Smid is arguably Edmonton's best defenceman this season (a better skating, better puck-moving Volchenkov) and is an integral part of the Oilers blueline going forward. Hemmer alone could fetch a late 1st and a small +

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Old
01-22-2012, 07:17 PM
  #134
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Our available pieces should be :

Peter Regin
Bobby Butler
Brian Lee
Jim O'Brien
3rd round pick (we have 2)
Eric Gryba
Kaspars Daugavins
Patrick Wiercioch
Nikita Filatov
Louie Caporusso

If we can't get a player that could help with those assets, then don't make a move. Guys like Noesen, Puempel, Lehner, Da Costa, Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Petersson, Hoffman, Stone, Prince, Pageau, Borowiecki, Claesson, Blood and even Grant shouldn't be available, unless we are talking about a young proven NHL star that we could have here long-term

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Old
01-22-2012, 07:41 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Our available pieces should be :

Peter Regin
Bobby Butler
Brian Lee
Jim O'Brien
3rd round pick (we have 2)
Eric Gryba
Kaspars Daugavins
Patrick Wiercioch
Nikita Filatov
Louie Caporusso

If we can't get a player that could help with those assets, then don't make a move. Guys like Noesen, Puempel, Lehner, Da Costa, Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Petersson, Hoffman, Stone, Prince, Pageau, Borowiecki, Claesson, Blood and even Grant shouldn't be available, unless we are talking about a young proven NHL star that we could have here long-term
This is what I don't understand. Why would we have 11 forward prospects whom are not available for trade? There are only 13 roster spots open for forwards, not everyone will be in our long term plans.

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Old
01-22-2012, 07:44 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
This is what I don't understand. Why would we have 11 forward prospects whom are not available for trade? There are only 13 roster spots open for forwards, not everyone will be in our long term plans.
and how do you know who will turn out?

we know that some will be busts just who?


You want to make a Rask for Raycroft deal just cause we have a Pogge?


I dont mind trading one but most deadline deals consist of a draft picks or decent prospects. Generally not 1st rounders unless you are getting a contract player back or he is a top line talent.

I doubt we give up a Puemple or Noesen for a rental unless we are talking about Parise or Suter

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Old
01-22-2012, 07:44 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Our available pieces should be :

Peter Regin
Bobby Butler
Brian Lee
Jim O'Brien
3rd round pick (we have 2)
Eric Gryba
Kaspars Daugavins
Patrick Wiercioch
Nikita Filatov
Louie Caporusso

If we can't get a player that could help with those assets, then don't make a move. Guys like Noesen, Puempel, Lehner, Da Costa, Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Petersson, Hoffman, Stone, Prince, Pageau, Borowiecki, Claesson, Blood and even Grant shouldn't be available, unless we are talking about a young proven NHL star that we could have here long-term
1: I'm not ready to give up on filitov and wiercioch they were both projects and have yet to have a legit oppurtunity to succeed, let Patty come back from his career ending scare and give him a shot, he is our argueably best defensive prospect (close with Borocop) and let Fili come to camp next year and PROVE he wants to play in the Nhl i have a feeling the turris scenario may inspire him

2: Our swedish prospects (Besides Claesson) should all be none starters, Lehner is are ONLY goaltending prospect, Silfverberg was, according to murray NHL ready last season and is tearing up the SEL, Zibby is the first high pick weve had since Lee and had a good WJC and is haveing a better season in sweden than his points reflect, and petersson could be good, could be garbage but he has tons of skill and this is his first season back from a potential career ending back injury lets give him a chance

3: Blood and Grant are definatley available at the trade deadline if an organization has interest in them they arent players the organization views in high regards and i cant see them not being available

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Old
01-22-2012, 07:52 PM
  #138
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If I'm Bryan Murray, there is not an untouchable prospect if I think I can fill a short and long-term need immediately.

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Old
01-22-2012, 07:55 PM
  #139
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The fact is that this team has no immediate needs that we'd need to overpay for. A couple top 6 wingers and top 4 forwards are ideal, but if there's not an offer that makes sense, we don't need to do anything.

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Old
01-22-2012, 07:56 PM
  #140
Pilgore88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSF View Post
and how do you know who will turn out?

we know that some will be busts just who?


You want to make a Rask for Raycroft deal just cause we have a Pogge?


I dont mind trading one but most deadline deals consist of a draft picks or decent prospects. Generally not 1st rounders unless you are getting a contract player back or he is a top line talent.

I doubt we give up a Puemple or Noesen for a rental unless we are talking about Parise or Suter
The rask vs pogge argument holds no value here. Everyone except Toronto management knew that deal was bogus.

Of course not all of those guys will work out, we have a solid idea of who are highly valued here, as I said in a earlier post the only forward prospects I would not trade unless something huge came up are zibby, silf and noeson. These are the 3 guys that would be the hardest to replace, the rest I feel can be replaced through a pick in the next draft or two.

And again I'm not talking about just a deadline deal, we have a very large group of talented forward prospects, we can afford to trade 1 or 2 of them for another piece.

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Old
01-22-2012, 07:57 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
If I'm Bryan Murray, there is not an untouchable prospect if I think I can fill a short and long-term need immediately.
That's Day 1 of GM 101 though.


Last edited by Minister of Offence: 01-22-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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Old
01-22-2012, 07:57 PM
  #142
Pilgore88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
If I'm Bryan Murray, there is not an untouchable prospect if I think I can fill a short and long-term need immediately.
Summed up perfectly

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Old
01-22-2012, 08:06 PM
  #143
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Regardless of what happens, I hope to god that the Bruins do not get Ruutu and/or Gleason for the playoffs.

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Old
01-22-2012, 08:16 PM
  #144
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I'm not willing to trade a 1st round pick for a guy in Hemsky who is a bad bounce away from missing a year.

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Old
01-23-2012, 06:47 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by SeanMonahan View Post
I'm not willing to trade a 1st round pick for a guy in Hemsky who is a bad bounce away from missing a year.
Last 7 seasons sorted by most games played:
Hemsky: 81, 74, 72, 71, 64, 47, 22
Spezza: 82, 78, 76, 68, 67, 62, 60,
Alfie11: 79, 77, 77, 77, 70, 70, 54

He's also an extremely talented, 28yo, near PPG, offensive catalyst who was a key player on a Stanley Cup Finalist. We'd be lucky if even one of the forward prospects we have now ever produces as much as Hemsky. Meanwhile, he could go a long way towards playing the offensive role that Alfie plays long term, while boosting our playoff chances short term.

Players who become available have warts, period. 'Random injuries' I can accept because sometimes they stop (Alfie, Selanne, etc). 'Sucking', 'lazy' or 'bad attitude'... not so much, because those don't go away as easily.

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Old
01-23-2012, 07:13 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
If I'm Bryan Murray, there is not an untouchable prospect if I think I can fill a short and long-term need immediately.
What exactly does this mean? Looks like a consultant speaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamok View Post
The fact is that this team has no immediate needs that we'd need to overpay for. A couple top 6 wingers and top 4 forwards are ideal, but if there's not an offer that makes sense, we don't need to do anything.
Please define " no immediate needs"... are you talking about the next month?

For me, immediate is about up to two years down the road and we do need to do something about our defensive prospects. We have enough forward prospects to fill two top 6 forwards that we will be missing in 18 months by replacing Condra and Alfie.

But we do have to replace two top 4 defensemans - Kuba and Gonchar, within 18 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMonahan View Post
I'm not willing to trade a 1st round pick for a guy in Hemsky who is a bad bounce away from missing a year.
Our first won't be traded unless we get a top 3 defenseman and no one is going to trade one to us. Murray will pick a defenseman this year and should be moving up by trading one of our 2 3rd picks.

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Old
01-23-2012, 07:36 AM
  #147
mt-svk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Last 7 seasons sorted by most games played:
Hemsky: 81, 74, 72, 71, 64, 47, 22
Spezza: 82, 78, 76, 68, 67, 62, 60,
Alfie11: 79, 77, 77, 77, 70, 70, 54

He's also an extremely talented, 28yo, near PPG, offensive catalyst who was a key player on a Stanley Cup Finalist. We'd be lucky if even one of the forward prospects we have now ever produces as much as Hemsky. Meanwhile, he could go a long way towards playing the offensive role that Alfie plays long term, while boosting our playoff chances short term.

Players who become available have warts, period. 'Random injuries' I can accept because sometimes they stop (Alfie, Selanne, etc). 'Sucking', 'lazy' or 'bad attitude'... not so much, because those don't go away as easily.
Do you think that he could help Sens from press-box? Hemský is always injured in the last seasons and risk that he will injured for PO is too much. Especially when you have wings and wait talented wings. Murray would have to be a fool to trade the first round for Hemský. And especially, IMo you will take a d-man in the first round.

IMO your trades could be: Prospal and Pahlsson for the second round and the third round pick. Both of them are UFA after the season and you wouldnt take a place for youngs.

and the roster:

Greening--Spezza--Michálek
Foligno--Turris--Alfredsson
Prospal--Smith--Condra
Daugavins--Pahlsson--Neil


Last edited by mt-svk: 01-23-2012 at 07:41 AM.
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Old
01-23-2012, 07:39 AM
  #148
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i would think Hemsky is much more valuable than a back half 1st rounder but we will see.


This guy puts up some real good numbers and is young. He has injury concerns which may drive some gm's away.

I think ppl will look back and wonder why we didnt act on it in the future cause i really believe on a solid team that Hemsky will produce a ton of points.

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Old
01-23-2012, 07:52 AM
  #149
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Because instead of having an injury-prone 28-year old, Murray could draft an 18-year old who will become an excellent player given his track record with first round picks

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01-23-2012, 07:56 AM
  #150
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Put me in the Hemsky camp as well. He's a guy whose used to the cold climate and the pressures of playing in a Canadian city, so there's a higher likelihood of resigning him. Also, between Michalek, Spezza and Turris, we have 3 guys going forward who are good threats to score 30 goals, and so we can accommodate another player with a pass first mentality. A top 6 like:

Michalek - Spezza - Hemsky
Greening - Turris - Alfie

Is a very balanced and versatile top 6. Michalek might not get another assist in his career however...

In regards to his injuries, I'd expect him to regress back to his mean of missing ~10 games a year. Not a terrible obstacle to overcome.

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