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2011 Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap Part 5

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02-02-2012, 01:07 PM
  #926
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Calling him, "nothing but average" at the age of 23 is pretty much throwing him under the bus. Because errr, it's implying that a 23 year old won't improve. If that's not implied and one does see him becoming "better than average", then it just becomes a really stupid trade.
No, calling him "nothing but average" is assessing his ability based on his NHL performance. Even if one feels that he will become better than average, moving him for a 2C is not, in any way, a stupid move, since this team is trying to win a Cup now. They've got a vet G who can actually steal games. They should go for it if they can get the big guns healthy.

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02-02-2012, 01:08 PM
  #927
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Michael Neuvirth is 23 freaking years old. Get that through ur head. He has a very good cap hit and will not be traded so we can overpay for a UFA goalie. Whether you like it or not Neuvy will be the goalie next year. He is not worth Vermette. There are other players on this team that could be traded for a #2 C
Michal Neuvirth is tied for the 3rd worst goalie in the NHL this year, get that through your head. His age means nothing in that regard.

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02-02-2012, 01:09 PM
  #928
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No, calling him "nothing but average" is assessing his ability based on his NHL performance. Even if one feels that he will become better than average, moving him for a 2C is not, in any way, a stupid move, since this team is trying to win a Cup now. They've got a vet G who can actually steal games. They should go for it if they can get the big guns healthy.
If you think this team is a legit contender and that a #2 C is going to boost this team to a cup ur crazy. This team needs some major retooling IMO

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02-02-2012, 01:10 PM
  #929
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So saying, "dude's playing terrible this year and will amount to nothing", is not throwing a player under the bus?

Check.
No, it's not. Throwing a player under the bus is assigning single blame to him for a shared responsibility.

Either way, I don't really have a horse in this race, although I will say that I prefer to have one veteran and one young goaltender as the two in the NHL.

On another topic, wasn't Montreal the other team Sjogren wanted to play for? I wonder if his rights have any value at all to them as possibly a minor pot sweetener.

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02-02-2012, 01:12 PM
  #930
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Michal Neuvirth is tied for the 3rd worst goalie in the NHL this year, get that through your head. His age means nothing in that regard.
Key words there are THIS YEAR. A #2C is not going to help this team that much. Maybe we will make the playoffs but we won't go more than one round playing Philly, NYR, BOS etc. with the team we are putting on the ice right now and especially with Backstrom out

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02-02-2012, 01:12 PM
  #931
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If you think this team is a legit contender and that a #2 C is going to boost this team to a cup ur crazy. This team needs some major retooling IMO
I think if Green and Backstrom get healthy and they get a 2C, they could make a run if 8 and 19 perform like they can and Vokoun gets hot. Philly barely got in two years ago, and made it all the way to the Cup finals.

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02-02-2012, 01:13 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by hb11xchamps View Post
Key words there are THIS YEAR. A #2C is not going to help this team that much. Maybe we will make the playoffs but we won't go more than one round playing Philly, NYR, BOS etc. with the team we are putting on the ice right now and especially with Backstrom out
Ok, and LAST YEAR he was average. So our two samples of Neuvirth's play are horrible and average.

And again, a 2C helps the team a lot more than a backup G.

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02-02-2012, 01:14 PM
  #933
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I think if Green and Backstrom get healthy and they get a 2C, they could make a run if 8 and 19 perform like they can and Vokoun gets hot. Philly barely got in two years ago, and made it all the way to the Cup finals.
One, I doubt Green comes back. I would let him fully rehab his injury and get ready for next year

Two, with the way Backstrom is progressing he looks as if he isn't returning any time soon. He has skated at the most 5 minutes

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02-02-2012, 01:15 PM
  #934
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Good list except that one guy has you fooled.

Dennis "Random Pass Generating Machine" Wideman is a chemistry killer. He tries and, of course, has snapshot photograph moments that make him look like a genius. But he is bad for the team.

Ovie hasn't been bad, either. The NHL has neutered him is all.
Oh Wideman doesn't have me fooled at all, I'm in complete agreement with you on your assessment. I was just playing the antagonistic role and figured I could include Wideman because he was our All Star rep fwiw. But again I agree with you though saying he's bad for the team may be a bit harsh.

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02-02-2012, 01:15 PM
  #935
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Ok, and LAST YEAR he was average. So our two samples of Neuvirth's play are horrible and average.

And again, a 2C helps the team a lot more than a backup G.
He was a rookie goalie in the NHL who won us a playoff series guess that's average to you.

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02-02-2012, 01:16 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
No, calling him "nothing but average" is assessing his ability based on his NHL performance. Even if one feels that he will become better than average, moving him for a 2C is not, in any way, a stupid move, since this team is trying to win a Cup now. They've got a vet G who can actually steal games. They should go for it if they can get the big guns healthy.
So. Antoine freaking Vermette, is the one piece missing to this fringe 8th seed's puzzle that will push them over the top, that we're willing to deal a starting goalie and a 2nd round pick for him? Either Vermette has been scoring at like a 2 GPG pace that I'm not aware of or I've been watching some team other than the Capitals play all year.

And what "vet G who can actually steal games" are we talking about? The one with the 35th best save percentage in the league? Or are we only allowed to bring up the "present" with Neuvirth? Unless you are talking about his stellar playoff history? You know, the one with less wins than a 23 year old?

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02-02-2012, 01:16 PM
  #937
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Oh Wideman doesn't have me fooled at all, I'm in complete agreement with you on your assessment. I was just playing the antagonistic role and figured I could include Wideman because he was our All Star rep fwiw. But again I agree with you though saying he's bad for the team may be a bit harsh.
I'm all in for trading Wideman at the deadline for a good package if we continue to play the way we are and especially if Backstrom is out still

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02-02-2012, 01:17 PM
  #938
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One, I doubt Green comes back. I would let him fully rehab his injury and get ready for next year

Two, with the way Backstrom is progressing he looks as if he isn't returning any time soon. He has skated at the most 5 minutes
There was an update today about Green skating for the 3rd consecutive day, and that his recovery is on schedule. So I don't know why you doubt he comes back.

And how is Backstrom progressing? Please enlighten me.

All we know is that the Caps are being super cautious with him. We don't know the extent of his symptoms, how they've improved or gotten worse, or anything, really.

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02-02-2012, 01:20 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
There was an update today about Green skating for the 3rd consecutive day, and that his recovery is on schedule. So I don't know why you doubt he comes back.

And how is Backstrom progressing? Please enlighten me.

All we know is that the Caps are being super cautious with him. We don't know the extent of his symptoms, how they've improved or gotten worse, or anything, really.
Skating is a lot different then going out and actually taking hits and playing in a game. Green skated forever before he reinjured his groin/hernia or whatever his mystery ailment was.

Skating for a grand total of 5 minutes since is not very good progress. If Backstrom was close to being able to returning he would be out on the ice skating but he isnt

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02-02-2012, 01:23 PM
  #940
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Skating is a lot different then going out and actually taking hits and playing in a game. Green skated forever before he reinjured his groin/hernia or whatever his mystery ailment was.

Skating for a grand total of 5 minutes since is not very good progress. If Backstrom was close to being able to returning he would be out on the ice skating but he isnt
Right, and Green's surgery is typically a permanent fix for his groin/hernia mystery ailment.

"Progress" implies some sort of temporal improvement. That is, you have to know how he's doing at an earlier time versus a later time to evaluate progress. Again, we don't know if he's gotten better, worse, or stayed the same.

And it won't take more than a couple days of skating to get ready, when the Caps give him the go-ahead.

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02-02-2012, 01:27 PM
  #941
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Right, and Green's surgery is typically a permanent fix for his groin/hernia mystery ailment.

"Progress" implies some sort of temporal improvement. That is, you have to know how he's doing at an earlier time versus a later time to evaluate progress. Again, we don't know if he's gotten better, worse, or stayed the same.

And it won't take more than a couple days of skating to get ready, when the Caps give him the go-ahead.
Green is still a mystery. The Caps never told us exactly what his injury was. If it was a hernia I could see him not being back for a bit. I remember when Dean Arsene for the Bears had hernia surgery and was out for a very long time (He had double sports hernias but still)

I just don't like the fact that Backstrom hasn't been skating yet.

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02-02-2012, 01:35 PM
  #942
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So. Antoine freaking Vermette, is the one piece missing to this fringe 8th seed's puzzle that will push them over the top, that we're willing to deal a starting goalie and a 2nd round pick for him? Either Vermette has been scoring at like a 2 GPG pace that I'm not aware of or I've been watching some team other than the Capitals play all year.

And what "vet G who can actually steal games" are we talking about? The one with the 35th best save percentage in the league? Or are we only allowed to bring up the "present" with Neuvirth? Unless you are talking about his stellar playoff history? You know, the one with less wins than a 23 year old?
Vermette's an improvement over what the Caps have, and put in a scoring line role, I think he's closer to the 65 points he put up in Columbus than what he's putting up this year. He gets very little PP time (8th among forwards), and is 5th among Columbus forwards in ES TOI. He'll produce more with more time on ice and better teammates.

And Neuvirth isn't a starting goalie, he's a backup. Yes, Vokoun is a vet G who can actually steal games. He's already done it on several occasions. Who gives a **** about playoff wins for a goalie? Vokoun's previous teams were far inferior to Neuvirth's team last year. Vokoun's tied for 23rd in save percentage, by the way, with a save percentage better than Neuvirth's last year, and with a career save percentage better than Neuvirth's last year.

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02-02-2012, 01:39 PM
  #943
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Vermette's an improvement over what the Caps have, and put in a scoring line role, I think he's closer to the 65 points he put up in Columbus than what he's putting up this year.
So another Ovechkin then...?

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02-02-2012, 01:44 PM
  #944
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Oh Wideman doesn't have me fooled at all, I'm in complete agreement with you on your assessment. I was just playing the antagonistic role and figured I could include Wideman because he was our All Star rep fwiw. But again I agree with you though saying he's bad for the team may be a bit harsh.

Right on. I always enjoy your posts, btw.

Wideman is just not a good team player mentally. He plays wild west and gets the other guys shot up.

He reminds me of Al Iafrate in the sense that the other guys don't know how to play with him. Iafrate was one of the greatest physical talents I've ever seen (skating, shooting, dangling) but his hockey sense was screwy god bless him. Wideman is like that except he has about 1/10 of Iafrate's talent.

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02-02-2012, 01:46 PM
  #945
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So another Ovechkin then...?
No no no Ovechkin will come back from his suspension and light the league on fire, Backstrom will return and go right back to the form that he had and Mike Green will take this team to the promise land behind our new goalie tandem of Vokoun/HOLEby and our new #2C, Antoinne Vermette, who is awesome

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02-02-2012, 01:47 PM
  #946
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No no no Ovechkin will come back from his suspension and light the league on fire, Backstrom will return and go right back to the form that he had and Mike Green will take this team to the promise land behind our new goalie tandem of Vokoun/HOLEby and our new #2C, Antoinne Vermette, who is awesome
Have no fear, average Michal Neuvirth will play just good enough to lose by 1.

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02-02-2012, 01:49 PM
  #947
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Have no fear, average Michal Neuvirth will play just good enough to lose by 1.
And next year Josh Harding will take us to a Stanley Cup. Keep dreaming Michal Neuvirth is not getting traded and this team needs a lot more than Vermette

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02-02-2012, 01:49 PM
  #948
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Vermette's an improvement over what the Caps have, and put in a scoring line role, I think he's closer to the 65 points he put up in Columbus than what he's putting up this year. He gets very little PP time (8th among forwards), and is 5th among Columbus forwards in ES TOI. He'll produce more with more time on ice and better teammates.

And Neuvirth isn't a starting goalie, he's a backup. Yes, Vokoun is a vet G who can actually steal games. He's already done it on several occasions. Who gives a **** about playoff wins for a goalie? Vokoun's previous teams were far inferior to Neuvirth's team last year. Vokoun's tied for 23rd in save percentage, by the way, with a save percentage better than Neuvirth's last year, and with a career save percentage better than Neuvirth's last year.
I guess I'm the only one who can't grasp how this Capitals team is one "Antoine Vermette" away from hoisting the Cup.

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02-02-2012, 01:50 PM
  #949
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I guess I'm the only one who can't grasp how this Capitals team is one "Antoine Vermette" away from hoisting the Cup.
This makes two of us then

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02-02-2012, 01:52 PM
  #950
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I guess I'm the only one who can't grasp how this Capitals team is one "Antoine Vermette" away from hoisting the Cup.
Ah yes, ignore the rest of the substance. They're not one "Antoine Vermette" from hoisting the Cup, They're Vermette, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Green, plus some players getting hot in the post-season away. If you don't think he improves the team, then you're either just dense or trolling.

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