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2011 Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap Part 5

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01-25-2012, 11:54 AM
  #201
txpd
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Yeah Toronto really beat out the Caps with that 2nd round pick. Especially when a LH puck mover was needed (I agreed whole-heartedly with AMay).

Just like Chara was considered. Ah the days when a 6M offer to him was considered "legit" attempt and 7.25 was outrageous! To think how different this team may have been from 2006-2010 with Ovi, Nick, Green, Semin, and Chara.
there is a difference between considering the player and acquiring him. if by considering you think they didnt know he was available or dismissed him out of hand, how can you know that? if by didnt consider you actually mean didnt acquire, then its two different things.

its really hard to talk about things behind close doors that didnt happen. maybe the deal was that colorado wanted varly for liles.

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01-25-2012, 12:02 PM
  #202
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If we picked up Chara i don't think we would have Alzner and Carlson... Chara is getting Older, sure he would have been a good signing but now we have to work with the young talent we have instead.

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01-25-2012, 12:05 PM
  #203
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Of course there's no "know"... but come on. How about SERIOUSLY consider. Cause just like Kubina a few years back. If you seriously consider, you could outbid someone. At least in the Kubina one I MIGHT be able to see that Burke might have wanted an old, slow, overpaid, scratched Dman over Sarge.

"We're only going to take Varly from you and nothing else.... or we're going to take that Boston 2nd rounder from Tor"

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01-25-2012, 12:08 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
If we picked up Chara i don't think we would have Alzner and Carlson... Chara is getting Older, sure he would have been a good signing but now we have to work with the young talent we have instead.
Of course everything post 2006 draft changes... but come on. You don't win, normally, with young D. That's gmgm's problem. You win with young forwards (ie cheaper contracts) and older D like Chi. Having your core of forwards a few years older than your strong D is not a recipe for success.

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01-25-2012, 12:09 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by CapsGreat08AO View Post
I don't know how I managed to forget JFS when I asked that
It's easy when you're watching Dale hockey...

But then you click on the contract thread and there he is...

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01-25-2012, 12:09 PM
  #206
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It is easy to say that that the Caps should be growing their own version of Ward, but trying to anticipate which players will step up their game like he has is a crap shoot, or else every team would have guys like him.
While certainly true in his case, he was the product of a strong developmental system in Nashville under Constantine. Not to discount his drive in becoming an NHLer but players like that don't just grow themselves. It's about maximizing skill sets through structured, detail-oriented coaching as an organization. It's part of what makes Johnson an endearing addition--esp. considering how young they are on the blueline--but they need more of it when it comes to grooming hard-working forwards organizationally. There tends to be too much of an emphasis on forwards using their skill primarily/loosely than playing the game hard.

Shooting for finesse/upside in the draft is great if you hit but if not you're left with a line of busts that don't contribute anything. It overlooks the somewhat unglamorous role players that also help teams win, which has led to having to go out and spend assets/extra cap space for them. (Or signing/using mediocre ones on the cheap...) At least they got Kundratek out of the Bouchard pick but there needs to be a little more depth in their drafting. They've built considerably through it and Mahoney deserves a lot of credit but it can always stand to be a little more well-rounded. More of an organizational emphasis on work ethic and character would be a good thing, especially if Hunter hockey is here to stay.

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01-25-2012, 12:10 PM
  #207
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I'd like to see GMGM be more aggressive going after the coveted undrafted/college free agents.

Lots of solid players there - Clarkson, Dupuis, Fiddler, Glencross, Halpern, LaRose, Leino, Purcell, Peverley, Read, Ward, Hiller, among others.

Also some elite players - Giordano, Girardi, St. Louis, Backstrom, Boyle, Rafalski,

It's a market that allows you to move draft picks in trades without sacrificing depth as much.

The only time in his tenure I can remember him beating other teams to a top undrafted FA was Sjogren, and that might already be wasted. I was pretty disappointed he couldn't land Andy Miele last year, after having him in camp for a couple years.

I hope he goes after the likes of JT Brown, Dan DeKeyser, Ludwig Karlsson, and Travis Oleksuk. Nick Sorkin seems like he's put it together this year, so that's a guy he very well might have the inside track for.

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01-25-2012, 12:13 PM
  #208
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I'm not a big drafting guy since 2007, so I forget the names off hand.

But say we get a #12 pick from Avs and the injured Sarnia Russian is there but so is a burly, WHL Clowe-projected forward.

I think I know which direction we're going.

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01-25-2012, 12:14 PM
  #209
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Agreed NBTW. I thought the year we got two of them they were both rather sought after.... can't remember names.

edit: Obviously going to miss a lot but they're typically 21-22 and more developed. Cost no assets.

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01-25-2012, 12:15 PM
  #210
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Players with a better pedigree than that either don't become available or cost quite a bit more than $3M. Unless of course someone wanted Jagr back on the Caps.
I repeat I am not nor have I ever been saying anything negative about Ward. I was simply answering the question on whether last year was it with respect to being a great playoff guy or not.

I understand the economics of UFAs. I understand that it makes plenty of sense for a team that is thought of as playoff underachievers to add a guy who is thought to significantly elevate his game in the playoffs. I was ok, not thrilled but ok, with the Ward signing even though I did find it more than I would have liked in both rate and term.

Ward is on pace to pot 8-9 goals and 15 assists. Last year he put up 10 goals and 29 points so while he is a little behind his pace from last year it isn't significant.

He was brought here for the playoffs and his regular season production has been close to on par with his regular season production from last season. I'm good with waiting until the playoffs to judge the player/move.

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01-25-2012, 12:21 PM
  #211
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Offhand, I can remember him signing:

Miskovic, Stevenson, Anderson, Sjogren, and Collins

After Sjogren, I think Stevenson was the most sought after.

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01-25-2012, 12:25 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
I'm not a big drafting guy since 2007, so I forget the names off hand.

But say we get a #12 pick from Avs and the injured Sarnia Russian is there but so is a burly, WHL Clowe-projected forward.

I think I know which direction we're going.
Galchenyuk and Gaunce. Though Gaunce is an OHLer. Colton Sissons could be considered a WHL Clowe-projected forward, depending how much you like his upside.

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01-25-2012, 12:29 PM
  #213
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Yeah, Sissons would be the closest to a Clowe comp. but I'm not sure he projects quite as high and isn't as big. Wilson is as big not as skilled it seems. Sounds like Galchenyuk could play in five weeks or so too and could raise his draft stock back up (if it fell at all). More of an emphasis on size/grit will definitely be something to watch for.

Many NCAA UFAs go to the team with the shortest track to the NHL but not all. Chris Tanev is another recent UFA player one out of RIT...which links back to the Pinizzotto signing. If only they'd given him more of a shot. Beagle is another one, albeit not directly out of college. He's pretty much the definition of a replacement level player, though.

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01-25-2012, 12:31 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Offhand, I can remember him signing:

Miskovic, Stevenson, Anderson, Sjogren, and Collins

After Sjogren, I think Stevenson was the most sought after.
Wasn't Steveson the USHL Dman? I thought there was a stephnoisan (something like that obviously spelled wrong) and another S name... two actual college UFA.

edit: I want to say like 3-4 years ago.

edit2: Thanks NBTW.... didn't want to bother with another post.


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01-25-2012, 12:33 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Galchenyuk and Gaunce. Though Gaunce is an OHLer. Colton Sissons could be considered a WHL Clowe-projected forward, depending how much you like his upside.
Yeah I was just spit balling. Knew of Galy but not a Clowe-ish guy. Really wanted one of those 4 in 2007 and 3 of them are doing really well. At least someone claimed Gilles.

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01-25-2012, 12:35 PM
  #216
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Wasn't Steveson the USHL Dman? I thought there was a stephnoisan (something like that obviously spelled wrong) and another S name... two actual college UFA.
The Caps traded for Taylor Stefishen in June, after his sophomore year at Ohio State. He's in the WHL now, putting up around a PPG. I'd imagine he'll get signed to an ELC at some point.

Stevenson was out of the SJHL.

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01-25-2012, 12:39 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
I'm not a big drafting guy since 2007, so I forget the names off hand.

But say we get a #12 pick from Avs and the injured Sarnia Russian is there but so is a burly, WHL Clowe-projected forward.

I think I know which direction we're going.

Galchenyuk is American. I've said this before, I see him as a gagner, getting overrated because he benefits from the true star.

I'd love to get Gaunce if he falls to us, if not Collberg is a solid pick.

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01-25-2012, 12:44 PM
  #218
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Whatever Philadelphia does to lure guys like Read, Gustafsson, Holmstrom, Akeson, and Bourdon we need to start doing. Pretty much their entire prospect pool is undrafted guys. It's ludicrous.

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01-25-2012, 12:45 PM
  #219
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So does GMGM get credit for building a roster that does pretty well w/o Ovi? Doesn't this team have a pretty darn good record w/o him?

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01-25-2012, 12:46 PM
  #220
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So does GMGM get credit for building a roster that does pretty well w/o Ovi? Doesn't this team have a pretty darn good record w/o him?
It's been a very small sample size, and several of those games were against terrible FLA teams, so who knows what it means honestly.

And if the team does well without Ovi then how can GMGM get credit for keeping that anchor on the cap?

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01-25-2012, 12:47 PM
  #221
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While certainly true in his case, he was the product of a strong developmental system in Nashville under Constantine. Not to discount his drive in becoming an NHLer but players like that don't just grow themselves. It's about maximizing skill sets through structured, detail-oriented coaching as an organization. It's part of what makes Johnson an endearing addition--esp. considering how young they are on the blueline--but they need more of it when it comes to grooming hard-working forwards organizationally. There tends to be too much of an emphasis on forwards using their skill primarily/loosely than playing the game hard.

Shooting for finesse/upside in the draft is great if you hit but if not you're left with a line of busts that don't contribute anything. It overlooks the somewhat unglamorous role players that also help teams win, which has led to having to go out and spend assets/extra cap space for them. (Or signing/using mediocre ones on the cheap...) At least they got Kundratek out of the Bouchard pick but there needs to be a little more depth in their drafting. They've built considerably through it and Mahoney deserves a lot of credit but it can always stand to be a little more well-rounded. More of an organizational emphasis on work ethic and character would be a good thing, especially if Hunter hockey is here to stay.
That's good info on the Nashville developmental program. Thanks.

As far as drafting finesse vs. grit and having to spend assets/extra cap space to acquire what you're missing, I contend that it costs more to acquire skill/finesse guys than it does to acquire role players. Acquiring a Jason Arnott or Eric Belanger at the deadline costs a 2nd. A guy like Kaberle (ignoring the fact that he stunk it up in Boston) cost a 1st, a good prospect, and a conditional pick. Plus, drafting for upside and emphasizing work ethic don't have to be mutually exclusive. Perhaps the way prospects are developed by Hershey puts more of a focus on getting results and less of a focus on instilling work ethic and building up/polishing fundamentals. I don't know much about their organizational philosophy, so don't flame me if that isn't the case. Just throwing it out there as a possibility.


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01-25-2012, 12:54 PM
  #222
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Whatever Philadelphia does to lure guys like Read, Gustafsson, Holmstrom, Akeson, and Bourdon we need to start doing. Pretty much their entire prospect pool is undrafted guys. It's ludicrous.
With the way they have dealt away high draft picks in the past, it has been almost a neccessity for them to look at guys like that. I don't know how the signing process works, but perhaps they're able to spend more money on those guys and have more contract space since they typically have fewer high draft picks than most teams.

I looked it up and they've only had 2 draft picks in the first 2 rounds total in the last 4 years. The Caps have had 7. That's a lot of extra room for undrafted guys.

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01-25-2012, 01:07 PM
  #223
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The Caps traded for Taylor Stefishen in June, after his sophomore year at Ohio State. He's in the WHL now, putting up around a PPG. I'd imagine he'll get signed to an ELC at some point.
He's playing CIS hockey now and is pretty much a longshot to be signed I'd reckon. He'd likely be in Hershey or South Carolina if they were interested. There was a similar name signed years prior in Matt Stefanishion. Jamie Hunt was another one.

Stewie G: Certainly not exclusive and no question those bigger holes cost way more, especially as rentals. They've done fairly well putting the blueline together the past few years--minus a physical shutdown type--but the pieces up front don't fit together all that well. Part approach, part overvaluing players, part skimping certain important skill sets. Back to the original point, a better developmental system leads to areas of excess which leads to trade possibilities. That would also potentially cancel out having to move some of those earlier picks.

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01-25-2012, 01:15 PM
  #224
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There you go Langer! That's it.

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01-25-2012, 01:20 PM
  #225
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Of course there's no "know"... but come on. How about SERIOUSLY consider. .
you essentially seem to be saying that if mcphee had SERIOUSLY considered Liles, that he would be on the team.

i have just sold my truck. i have considered about 10 trucks to replace it and SERIOUSLY considered 3. i have a contract to buy 1.

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