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Helvetics to join KHL

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Old
01-27-2012, 01:42 PM
  #26
malkinfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaco View Post
In the end it will be a question of money: If Helvetics can afford to pay the best swiss players more than swiss clubs, they will, sooner or later, play for them, and if the best swiss players will all play for the Helvetics, all swiss hockey fans will go and support them.
Exactly, barring transportation issues I don't think the NLA teams or fan bases will block fan support for Helvetics. If you basically have an NLA all star team playing international opponents at a high level, I think the fans will show up. I think the fans will be loyal to the players rather than the clubs they used to play for...

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01-27-2012, 01:59 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Exactly, barring transportation issues I don't think the NLA teams or fan bases will block fan support for Helvetics. If you basically have an NLA all star team playing international opponents at a high level, I think the fans will show up. I think the fans will be loyal to the players rather than the clubs they used to play for...
You seem to have little understanding for the concept of club support. I have serious doubts Swiss fans would be so fickle.

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01-27-2012, 02:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post

thx for info about Helvetti
Only Finns will get this.

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01-27-2012, 02:09 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
You seem to have little understanding for the concept of club support. I have serious doubts Swiss fans would be so fickle.
Look what happened to Lev? They have good support and they just sprouted from the ground. Where did these fans come from? I'm sure some of them were supporters of teams in the Slovak league?

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01-27-2012, 02:23 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
You seem to have little understanding for the concept of club support. I have serious doubts Swiss fans would be so fickle.
Supporting Helvetics, who don't play against other swiss clubs doesn't mean swiss supporters cannot continue to go to the games of their "original" club. It's just an opportunity to enjoy better hockey. Why would you call them fickle?

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01-27-2012, 02:30 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
Look what happened to Lev? They have good support and they just sprouted from the ground. Where did these fans come from? I'm sure some of them were supporters of teams in the Slovak league?
Well it's not like there's much competition in Slovakia.

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02-01-2012, 09:28 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaco View Post
In the end it will be a question of money: If Helvetics can afford to pay the best swiss players more than swiss clubs, they will, sooner or later, play for them, and if the best swiss players will all play for the Helvetics, all swiss hockey fans will go and support them.
That might be true. But the budget for the Helvetics team isn't really big. If they would get the best 20 swiss players of the Swiss league, the yould already have a payroll of at least $10m. Plus they would also have to add some foreign star players, who would even demand more money...

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02-01-2012, 09:47 AM
  #33
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If I am correct, salary cap is at least 700 000 000 rubles for this season.

EDIT:
no, it should be 250 000 000 - 900 000 000 rubles. So it is cca 6 000 000 - 22 000 000 EUR

correct me if wrong


Last edited by vorky: 02-01-2012 at 09:55 AM.
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02-01-2012, 10:31 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by WeberStreit View Post
That might be true. But the budget for the Helvetics team isn't really big. If they would get the best 20 swiss players of the Swiss league, the yould already have a payroll of at least $10m. Plus they would also have to add some foreign star players, who would even demand more money...
You're right, but they don't need the best 20 swiss players all at once. If they can get, let's say Martin Pluess or Damien Brunner in the first year, I bet a lot of SCB/EVZ supporters would come to see their matches. The year after, maybe Genoni or Berra as a goalie and so on. If they focus on fan favorites, don't you think it could work out? And it doesn't mean that NLA has to die...

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02-01-2012, 10:37 AM
  #35
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After reading this discussion I have this feeling: "Suiss pps worry about level of NLA and leaving their best for KHL"

I give you another point of view. Does level of NLA suffer when their best young players left for North America (or Europe) to play NHL one day. But they play AHL or so.... Helvetics can bring them home, so no effect for NLA.

I can not say for fans support, I dont know suiss enviroment

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02-01-2012, 02:31 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
After reading this discussion I have this feeling: "Suiss pps worry about level of NLA and leaving their best for KHL"

I give you another point of view. Does level of NLA suffer when their best young players left for North America (or Europe) to play NHL one day. But they play AHL or so.... Helvetics can bring them home, so no effect for NLA.

I can not say for fans support, I dont know suiss enviroment
I think this is the natural way of things Vorky. If the best Swiss players come to the KHL, before long they will probably want another team there if the project is successful (similar to the situation in Slovakia. If teams are placed in Bratislava and Prague then most of the top talent will be stripped from SVK extraliga and it will become a far, league). Once there are 2 or 3 Swiss teams in the KHL then there will not be enough talent to support the NLA. So the NLA will essentially become a feeder league like the VHL, which is only a bad thing to owners of these teams.
I think this model is positive, but the federations will be too stubborn to allow this to happen, to allow Russian control over the top clubs in the country. Owners of NLA teams will not be pleased, so if they have any influence in the Swiss federation than they will definitely reject this.

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02-01-2012, 03:21 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
I think this is the natural way of things Vorky. If the best Swiss players come to the KHL, before long they will probably want another team there if the project is successful (similar to the situation in Slovakia. If teams are placed in Bratislava and Prague then most of the top talent will be stripped from SVK extraliga and it will become a far, league). Once there are 2 or 3 Swiss teams in the KHL then there will not be enough talent to support the NLA. So the NLA will essentially become a feeder league like the VHL, which is only a bad thing to owners of these teams.
I think this model is positive, but the federations will be too stubborn to allow this to happen, to allow Russian control over the top clubs in the country. Owners of NLA teams will not be pleased, so if they have any influence in the Swiss federation than they will definitely reject this.
I dont think there is a potential to have 2 or more Suiss clubs in KHL. It is about money, market, players and KHL (you can not have cca 60 teams in league)
It is not fair to compare Slovak league and NLA, because NLA is much much better.
When I look at LEVīs roster, there are 9 players who played Slovak/czech senior league last season. One of them, Lundberg, played slovak league because LEVīs project failed for season 2010/11, so he stayed in HK Poprad. Balan, one of these 9 players, does not play for HC LEV anymore, but stayed in HK Poprad, he played last season in czech rep - so, it is positive for slovak league.
Why so many (9) players from czech/slovak league? Because there were problems with joining KHL last summer (refusal of czech federation,moving to Poprad), so some players refused to sign... IMO, Duba, Balan, Huna wont play for LEV, maybe Kristek as well.


GM of HC LEV says that they will lure young czechs/slovaks from America this summer.

To Suiss - How many players of NLA could play KHL?

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02-01-2012, 05:46 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
To Suiss - How many players of NLA could play KHL?
I know Im not Swiss but I would not be surprised if the NLA has more then enough to build a solid KHL unit (not a powerhouse or anything but I would say mid-table, play-off contender.) I know its only pre-season but the NLA this year was 6-11 (44:59), they give the KHL problems and a good fight every year, if Helvetics was able to in the first few years get boarderline top/mid-level players, I would say they would do just fine then after a couple years start getting the top line players and turn into that mid-level club.

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02-01-2012, 05:51 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SvenskaRiga View Post
I know Im not Swiss but I would not be surprised if the NLA has more then enough to build a solid KHL unit (not a powerhouse or anything but I would say mid-table, play-off contender.) I know its only pre-season but the NLA this year was 6-11 (44:59), they give the KHL problems and a good fight every year, if Helvetics was able to in the first few years get boarderline top/mid-level players, I would say they would do just fine then after a couple years start getting the top line players and turn into that mid-level club.
I absolutly agree with you. I wanted to ask another Q. Can NLA feed more than one KHL team? How many? I think that one swiss KHL team is more than enough. As Slovakia, we can not have more than one KHL team. We dont have players to play it.

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02-01-2012, 06:49 PM
  #40
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I would see a success in it !! on a spectator level.

Swiss have become hockey lovers. Arenas are full here ! and we have spectacle.

The point of having a team somewhere in Switzerland would be that it taps in the potential fans in the whole country ! i am convinced that it could work well.

Then i like the logo of the Helvetics ... Wilhelm tell ... the Swiss snipers ! could be a very nice way to remember the Swiss where they come from !! That they remember they were a country of warriors feared all over Europe with all kings having Swiss guards because the Swiss mercenaries were the best. (Pope in Vatican still has a Swiss guard ... from these times)

About the Swiss players ... some would join, others wouldn't ... at the end the salary will decide. It could actually be a nice place to show up for international appreciation. I bet many young Swiss players would be ready to go and play for this team. Once the team is established ... this discussion will be inexistent.

If the team wants fans, it needs Swiss players !! a team with 40 % Swiss players won't convince Swiss fans !! it needs at least 70% and the Swiss must be part of the heroes !!! Very important. (NHL can adopt the Jets from one day to another ... here in Switzerland ... that wouldn't happen .. fan addoption would take way longer) We are very internationally oriented ... but our love and pride remains our nation and the land of our fathers.

I would be more worried for the time the teams spends in the planes to meet the other teams ... Helvetics - Khabarovsk ! 12 hours flight ! Helvetics - Ouralsky sbornaya (Salavat, Tractor, Metalurg, Avtomobilisty ...name them 7 hours flight (good you have no team in Kamtchatka !) ... a normal flight to Moscou ... 4h !!

Medias would be all in favor once they see what momentum it can build. For us, Swiss that would create a huge turnover and venue of Russian hockey savoir faire. A blessing for our country.

go Helvetics go ! or should i say давай елветйкс давай

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02-01-2012, 06:57 PM
  #41
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Then i like the logo of the Helvetics ... Wilhelm tell ... the Swiss snipers ! could be a very nice way to remember the Swiss where they come from !! That they remember they were a country of warriors feared all over Europe with all kings having Swiss guards because the Swiss mercenaries were the best. (Pope in Vatican still has a Swiss guard ... from these times)
Wilhelm who? Sorry for ignorance..

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02-01-2012, 06:57 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
As Slovakia, we can not have more than one KHL team. We dont have players to play it.
Oh please, if Latvia can have a playoff team, then Slovakia can build atleast 2-3 KHL teams. It would require luring back most of current KHL-ers as well but still.

There are 6 Slovaks in SM Liga, 4 in Elitserien, 7 in AHL, 2 in Switzerland, 21 in KHL and almost 50 in Czech Republic, probably some junior players in CHL as well.

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02-01-2012, 07:02 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post

To Suiss - How many players of NLA could play KHL?
While i am not an expert .... we have 12 teams in NLA. i guess maybe 7 of them could play in KHL. (by getting an extra 2 or 3 good players). (we would reach the Spengler cup level) ... i guess that would make them a possible contender.

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02-01-2012, 07:11 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Oh please, if Latvia can have a playoff team, then Slovakia can build atleast 2-3 KHL teams. It would require luring back most of current KHL-ers as well but still.

There are 6 Slovaks in SM Liga, 4 in Elitserien, 7 in AHL, 2 in Switzerland, 21 in KHL and almost 50 in Czech Republic, probably some junior players in CHL as well.
you are right. If we look at it lik this, so ok. I wrote about slovaks from slovak league and I repeat - we dont have enough players for KHL. If we (+ czechs) lure all players from world, we can build more KHL teams but we dont have money, market for it.

You know, I asked how many teams can Switzerland build from NLA players. One? more? Of course, if they lure players from US, Canada, Europe, they can build more but it would NOT effect quality of NLA.

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02-01-2012, 07:20 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Wilhelm who? Sorry for ignorance..
you are highly respected for your openness and interest.

Willhelm tell is a swiss hero.
Willhelm Tell on Wikipedia
He threw a arrow on an apple that was on the head of his son with an "arbalete". (don't know the word in English but in Russian it should be the same .... thank you Bolshoy Piotr who forced 1500 french words into Russian !)


i felt that this Helevetics figure was inspired by him. (of course they removed the arbalet ...)

and by the way, i like how you describe the acceptation of the KHL in Slovakia after HC LEV Poprad joined the league. I am sure the same thing will happen here. I have seen many times this negativism toward what people don't know. And then ... it simply changes their lives.
The phone penetration is a striking example.

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02-01-2012, 07:29 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
you are right. If we look at it lik this, so ok. I wrote about slovaks from slovak league and I repeat - we dont have enough players for KHL. If we (+ czechs) lure all players from world, we can build more KHL teams but we dont have money, market for it.

You know, I asked how many teams can Switzerland build from NLA players. One? more? Of course, if they lure players from US, Canada, Europe, they can build more but it would NOT effect quality of NLA.
i think that at the beginning it would hurt NLA ... by simple maths ... concentration of good players dedicated to another league. Yet ... i believe that the overall effect will be great. Switzerland has fans .... the problem of Switzerland is presently players. Now we have some 10 (+or-) young guns that are in american junior leagues because we cannot deal correctly with them.

To me it will boost interest of young guys and their training. I see an explosion. (Now something new appeared in Switzerland ... the possibility to be professional as a sportsman !! Today this option exist and it is serious if you are gifted.)

To say that when the Helvetics will be created .. initially some good players will be missed in NLA. But 2 or 3 years later ... i am sure that the benefit will by far outweight this small negative on Swiss hockey.

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02-01-2012, 07:30 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
we dont have money, market for it.
Latvia have 2M inhabitants and have market for one team, and Slovakian with 5.5M people won't have a market for 3 teams? Then again you try to convince us that Swiss fans will show up from nowhere to watch Helvetics in tiny village, why do you think Slovaks are less mobile that Swiss people? Poprad is 10 times smaller than Riga and it can average more than half of Riga's attendance (because of arena size, so I guess it could sell even more tickets).

Money is a funny argument again. There currently isn't neccessary amount of money anywhere in Europe, look how Lev is struggling to pay wages on time. Switzerland don't have it too, there again is some Russian money-bag willing to piss money away. So we can imagine as many teams as we wish but reality is that KHL has unnecesarily huge money demands, that scares away serious sponsors from the project.

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02-01-2012, 07:38 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by torero View Post
To say that when the Helvetics will be created .. initially some good players will be missed in NLA. But 2 or 3 years later ... i am sure that the benefit will by far outweight this small negative on Swiss hockey.
NLA will die. Latvian league has almost deceased as has Belarussian league, which was a really solid league few years back, but now our national leagues are turning into junior/youth leagues. KHL takes away not only the best players but all media attention which leads to withdrawn sponsor interest.

That's what scares the governors of big European leagues, if KHL was willing to accept whole top leagues in their system ( as some sort of western conference with shared playoffs) with their current budgets I can easily see them clubs breaking away from their national leagues. But KHL bosses really want to create a new NHL in Europe, they are not interested in 8 teams from Switzerland in their organisation. And that's it.

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02-01-2012, 07:57 PM
  #49
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I think this is great news! If a Swiss team would join the KHL I would make sure to visit their first game.

Also I suspect that a few(maybe a lot?) would immediately think that this team would steal the best players in the NLA. But I think that their main goal would be to get the best Swiss players in North America. So the AHL/NHL would probably be more hurt by this than the NLA in the long run.

Many Swedes has this impression that the teams of Elitserien are "loosing" players to the favour of KHL teams. But actually it is AHL/NHL that is the biggest "loser" in this business.

Elitserien would actually be a bigger "loser" if a team from Norway or Denmark would join the KHL as most top players and juniors from those countries will aim to and play in Elitserien. But they would then play for the KHL team instead.

If Sweden would join with a team in the KHL, the team would try to sign up players from North America and not Elitserien. Even though I also know that players from Elitserien would join and get signed up. But those players are(or at least should be) in a level above Elitserien.

It feels like I said the same thing over and over again. I apologize for that.

Quote:
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Only Finns will get this.
Not only.

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02-01-2012, 07:59 PM
  #50
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i think SUI easily have 7 teams good enough to play KHL, i doubt there's a need for sui to join too, their league is highly attended, competitive and successful, why tinker with it?

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