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Bishop going to Tampa?

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01-24-2012, 10:21 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Guys with a proven record of elevating their play in the post-season and carrying a team to the conference finals.....I think that's not something you can assume an AHL goaltender will replace.

Lots of young inexperienced goaltenders have came in and carried their team to the Conference Finals. Plus, the Blues have Elliott.

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01-24-2012, 10:28 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Beastman View Post
Lots of young inexperienced goaltenders have came in and carried their team to the Conference Finals. Plus, the Blues have Elliott.
So now Bishop is going to lead us to the promise land? Elliott is good and is having a great season, but he is going to come back to earth at some point. It wouldn't be the best move to put all our eggs in one basket.

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01-24-2012, 10:32 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
So now Bishop is going to lead us to the promise land? Elliott is good and is having a great season, but he is going to come back to earth at some point. It wouldn't be the best move to put all our eggs in one basket.

If Lou Lamoriello called and asked for Halak for Parise, I would send him to NJ and take my chances with a Elliott/Bishop tandem.

You wouldn't?

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01-24-2012, 10:36 PM
  #29
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If Lou Lamoriello called and asked for Halak for Parise, I would send him to NJ and take my chances with Elliott/Bishop tandem.

You wouldn't?
If Yzerman called and offered Stamkos for Oshie, would you take it?

Let's not deal in hypotheticals that aren't going to happen. Halak's trade value isn't worth trading him and teams in the playoff race don't trade their #1. Halak is our #1, just look at his stats excluding October and he has been absolutely amazing. With those stats that he has put up, I would not trade him for Parise. You are severely underrating Halak.

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01-24-2012, 10:48 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
So statistically, you think Bishop would be a top 10 goalie?
Is he?

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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Halak's trade value isn't worth trading him.
Or isn't he?

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01-24-2012, 10:59 PM
  #31
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Is he?



Or isn't he?
Excluding October, Halak is one of the best in the league. The trade market for goalies typically is very good because of how unpredictable they can be. Look at Philly, they put a lot into Bryzgalov and he has been a bust. Teams are going to give a ton for goalies and definitely not enough to make it worth it. GMs would rather use a goalie from within or try and find their version of Elliott. A good defense and a good coach will also improve the performance of goalies, which is also why the trading market is never the greatest for goalies. There are exceptions where teams give up a lot for a goalie, but those teams usually regret it.

Basically it makes no sense for us to trade Halak and the return wouldn't be as high as you think it would be. Halak's value to the team is a lot higher than his market trade value.

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01-24-2012, 11:23 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
GMs would rather use a goalie from within or try and find their version of Elliott. A good defense and a good coach will also improve the performance of goalies, which is also why the trading market is never the greatest for goalies.
That is why I would keep Bishop and why I think Bishop could have just as good of stats.

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01-24-2012, 11:45 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Beastman View Post
That is why I would keep Bishop and why I think Bishop could have just as good of stats.
I doubt his stats would be as good as Elliott's(even with the exceptional defense), but you never know. And we never will know because Bishop will be traded soon. He deserves to be. He's 25 yrs old, has put in his dues, and truly deserves a chance to prove himself at the next level. I don't think we could ask for much more in Brian Elliott either. He has just been phenomenal, and I think signing him was a huge win for the organization. It's unfortunate that we have to say goodbye to Bishop, but even more fortunate that we have such a great tandem for at least the next couple seasons.

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01-24-2012, 11:47 PM
  #34
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That is why I would keep Bishop and why I think Bishop could have just as good of stats.
Ok, we are finally in a playoff position with a proven playoff goalie, so lets trade him. Actually that sounds like classic Blues management. Hell, I can't even name our last goalie that was good in the playoffs. Cujo wasn't the same in the playoffs, Turek was a let down, and Brent Johnson followed his promising playoffs will a colossal meltdown and neve built on his 2001-2002 performance.

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01-24-2012, 11:48 PM
  #35
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The Blues are in a playoff race. They can't risk trading Bishop away near or at the trade deadline, because if he were gone, with no adequate replacement, if either Halak orElliott were to get hurt, they'd be down to one NHL-capable goaltender. The would not be able to rest their one remaining starter. The little they could get back for Bishop wouldn't be worth the draft choice or secondary prospect they could get for him. Better to keep him till the end of the season and lose him in free agency than to risk having to go into the playoff seeding race and playoffs with only one goalie.

Trading Halak or Elliott would be an even bigger mistake, None will be traded during the season. Mark my words.

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01-24-2012, 11:51 PM
  #36
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The Blues are in a playoff race. They can't risk trading Bishop away near or at the trade deadline, because if he were gone, with no adequate replacement, if either Halak orElliott were to get hurt, they'd be down to one NHL-capable goaltender. The would not be able to rest their one remaining starter. The little they could get back for Bishop wouldn't be worth the draft choice or secondary prospect they could get for him. Better to keep him till the end of the season and lose him in free agency than to risk having to go into the playoff seeding race and playoffs with only one goalie.

Trading Halak or Elliott would be an even bigger mistake, None will be traded during the season. Mark my words.
Goalies rarely get hurt and usually don't get significant injuries that keep them out so long that it would be a problem rolling with Halak/Elliott and Allen.

I still think Bishop gets packaged with a pick for a rental. Bishop has no future with us, so we could get a good rental for the cost of a 3rd round pick.

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01-25-2012, 12:02 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
The Blues are in a playoff race. They can't risk trading Bishop away near or at the trade deadline, because if he were gone, with no adequate replacement, if either Halak orElliott were to get hurt, they'd be down to one NHL-capable goaltender. The would not be able to rest their one remaining starter. The little they could get back for Bishop wouldn't be worth the draft choice or secondary prospect they could get for him. Better to keep him till the end of the season and lose him in free agency than to risk having to go into the playoff seeding race and playoffs with only one goalie.

Trading Halak or Elliott would be an even bigger mistake, None will be traded during the season. Mark my words.
You're probably right Robb, he likely won't be traded until the Draft...but I still think there's a chance. What if Bishop has asked for a trade, do you still think they wouldn't honor that before the deadline? If a goalie goes down in the playoffs...I would think the one remaining starter wouldn't get much(if any)rest either way.

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01-25-2012, 12:14 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Ok, we are finally in a playoff position with a proven playoff goalie, so lets trade him. Actually that sounds like classic Blues management. Hell, I can't even name our last goalie that was good in the playoffs. Cujo wasn't the same in the playoffs, Turek was a let down, and Brent Johnson followed his promising playoffs will a colossal meltdown
See Grant Fuhr

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Goalies rarely get hurt and usually don't get significant injuries that keep them out so long
See Grant Fuhr again.

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01-25-2012, 12:26 AM
  #39
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See Grant Fuhr



See Grant Fuhr again.
Haha, I could've played in net and the Oilers still would've won those Cups. They won because of Gretzky and the offense, not because Fuhr was shutdown. He still have to play good, but they didn't win because of him. Either way, his performance with the Oilers is irrelevant, he never got past the 2nd round with us and never had more than 6 wins in the playoffs with us.

Fuhr's injury was rare and considering both Elliott and Halak are 26, the risk isn't nearly as high. I seriously doubt that we go with a tandem in the playoffs anyway. Goalies just don't get significantly hurt very often, so I don't think it is an issue that we need to worry about.

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01-25-2012, 12:40 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Haha, I could've played in net and the Oilers still would've won those Cups. They won because of Gretzky and the offense, not because Fuhr was shutdown. He still have to play good, but they didn't win because of him. Either way, his performance with the Oilers is irrelevant, he never got past the 2nd round with us and never had more than 6 wins in the playoffs with us.

Fuhr's injury was rare and considering both Elliott and Halak are 26, the risk isn't nearly as high. I seriously doubt that we go with a tandem in the playoffs anyway. Goalies just don't get significantly hurt very often, so I don't think it is an issue that we need to worry about.
I was referring to the Blues.


If a player decides to jump on Halak or any goaltender (like Fuhr) and blow out his knee, it could change a series and the whole playoffs around (just like in 96).

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01-25-2012, 12:46 AM
  #41
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I was referring to the Blues.


If a player decides to jump on Halak or any goaltender (like Fuhr) and blow out his knee, it could change a series and the whole playoffs around (just like in 96).
Then yes, he wasn't very clutch with us in the playoffs. He never had more than 6 wins.

Like I said that situation is very rare and you don't have players running into goalies like that anymore, well except for that Lucic incident, but Halak and Elliott never really leave their crease like that, so they aren't at risk like Miller was.

Old school hockey had players taking runs at the goalie, you just don't see that in today's hockey.

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01-25-2012, 12:57 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Then yes, he wasn't very clutch with us in the playoffs. He never had more than 6 wins.

Like I said that situation is very rare and you don't have players running into goalies like that anymore, well except for that Lucic incident, but Halak and Elliott never really leave their crease like that, so they aren't at risk like Miller was.

Old school hockey had players taking runs at the goalie, you just don't see that in today's hockey.
No player took a run at Fuhr, he was jumped on in a crease melee.

Do you know why Kypreos jumped on him?

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01-25-2012, 01:05 AM
  #43
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No player took a run at Fuhr, he was jumped on in a crease melee.

Do you know why Kypreos jumped on him?
What I meant was goalies are protected a lot more than they were back then. I used taking a run as a general term to include all possible "cheap shots" towards goalies. Those types of situations just don't happen in today's NHL.

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01-25-2012, 01:16 AM
  #44
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What I meant was goalies are protected a lot more than they were back then. I used taking a run as a general term to include all possible "cheap shots" towards goalies. Those types of situations just don't happen in today's NHL.
Bertuzzi, Franzen or anyone could fall on Halak's knee and make it look "accidental".

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01-25-2012, 01:24 AM
  #45
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Bertuzzi, Franzen or anyone could fall on Halak's knee and make it look "accidental".
Yes, anything could happen. Seriously come on, I hate the Wings as much as anyone and Bertuzzi for the hits on MacInnis and Jackman, but you just don't see those cheap shots anymore.

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01-25-2012, 01:34 AM
  #46
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Yes, anything could happen. Seriously come on, I hate the Wings as much as anyone and Bertuzzi for the hits on MacInnis and Jackman, but you just don't see those cheap shots anymore.
"Accidents" happen.

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01-25-2012, 08:27 AM
  #47
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well.... this has turned into a pissing contest.


Wherever Bishop goes, I hope he does well. But I don't expect him to be a Blue next year.

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01-25-2012, 09:39 AM
  #48
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Even though it may be unlikely that either Halak or Elliott get hurt, it isn't unheard of, and Halak got hurt just last year. I wouldn't be comfortable with Allen as the backup in that scenario. Sure, it may suck to see Bishop walk next year as a UFA, but it would suck a lot more to see us start playing worse because we don't have an adequate backup, and instead get an extra 3rd round pick.

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01-25-2012, 10:32 AM
  #49
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Holy waste of time on semantics and hypotheticals Batman... worry more about reality and the present.

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01-25-2012, 11:27 AM
  #50
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Goalies do get hurt, maybe not as often or as severe as other positions but it does happen. I agree with Robb in that in that fact that I think that it best for Bishop to stay for the remainder of the season, with the caveat including Bishop in a larger package for someone like Nash. Then I think that it is worth a chance. But, I'm not in favor of moving him for picks or spare parts.

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