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Old
01-24-2012, 05:20 PM
  #76
nickschultzfan
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Just did the math, if we could get rid of Bouchard, Cullen, Lats, and Zidlicky, we could fit Parise (7.5 m/year), Carter, Granlund, and Suter (7m/year) and still have a good amount of room.

Now, that's never going to happen, but we can dream.

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01-24-2012, 05:49 PM
  #77
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Or we could likely miss out on Parise, Carter, and Suter and just keep our top prospects and see them in the NHL in two years.

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01-24-2012, 05:53 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Just did the math, if we could get rid of Bouchard, Cullen, Lats, and Zidlicky, we could fit Parise (7.5 m/year), Carter, Granlund, and Suter (7m/year) and still have a good amount of room.

Now, that's never going to happen, but we can dream.
Okay... I'm not entirely sure I'm going to have many "fans" after this...

But why Suter?

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good player. I'm just honestly more worried about him than a few other D out there.

How much is he a product of being paired with Weber?

Remember how Jeff Schultz was huge on his plus minus a few years ago? I mean, he was a plus FIFTY in 72 games played. Now, without Mike Green, he has been a healthy scratch quite a bit. Sure, it was the system Boudreau was using that was run and gun, let the goalie make the saves etcetera... But still, there was a huge chemistry there that a player like Schultz excelled with and looked like a stud.

If you take Seabrook away from Keith, would he be as big of a rockstar? Keith without Seabrook isn't all that... Impressive. Still impressive, but not 7 million dollars impressive.

Suter - Weber are two players that make each other better with Suter getting the most benefit.

If Brodin makes the team next year, I really don't see a huge pressing need to back the Brinks truck up for Suter. What Brodin needs is a Weber. Not the Weber, but a Weber like player. Maybe Swedish?

Tobias Enstrom?

He is currently at 3.750 cap/4.000 Salary signed through next season...

Moving the likely suspects, our next season blue line could be... If we land Enstrom?

Brodin - Enstrom
Scandella - Schultz
Spurgeon - Prosser

I like that defense a lot more than tossing Suter into the mix without a triggerman like Weber.

Of course, it would have to involve the Snowflake, Manitoba native Justin Falk going the other way, somehow.

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01-24-2012, 06:10 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Or we could likely miss out on Parise, Carter, and Suter and just keep our top prospects and see them in the NHL in two years.
Why? Zucker, Coyle, Phillips, Larsson aren't going to make an NHL impact for 3 years anyways. And when they do it will probably start on the 3rd line.

The Wild are going to lose forward at points. Heatley, Setoguchi, Clutterbuck, Brodziak (even if he's re-signed), could all be gone within 3 years. So, even if a core of Koivu/Parise/Carter/Granlund is 100% locked up, there will be positions opening for our prospects.

I rather have Phillips or Coyle playing in the AHL for 2-3 seasons, only to be 100% ready to step into the NHL top-6 when the Wild lose a player to injury or free agency. That's what good teams do. Good teams don't "leave" spots on their roster for their prospects to fill unless the guy has been in the AHL for 3 years.

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01-24-2012, 06:16 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
Okay... I'm not entirely sure I'm going to have many "fans" after this...

But why Suter?

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good player. I'm just honestly more worried about him than a few other D out there.

How much is he a product of being paired with Weber?

Remember how Jeff Schultz was huge on his plus minus a few years ago? I mean, he was a plus FIFTY in 72 games played. Now, without Mike Green, he has been a healthy scratch quite a bit. Sure, it was the system Boudreau was using that was run and gun, let the goalie make the saves etcetera... But still, there was a huge chemistry there that a player like Schultz excelled with and looked like a stud.

If you take Seabrook away from Keith, would he be as big of a rockstar? Keith without Seabrook isn't all that... Impressive. Still impressive, but not 7 million dollars impressive.

Suter - Weber are two players that make each other better with Suter getting the most benefit.

If Brodin makes the team next year, I really don't see a huge pressing need to back the Brinks truck up for Suter. What Brodin needs is a Weber. Not the Weber, but a Weber like player. Maybe Swedish?

Tobias Enstrom?

He is currently at 3.750 cap/4.000 Salary signed through next season...

Moving the likely suspects, our next season blue line could be... If we land Enstrom?

Brodin - Enstrom
Scandella - Schultz
Spurgeon - Prosser

I like that defense a lot more than tossing Suter into the mix without a triggerman like Weber.

Of course, it would have to involve the Snowflake, Manitoba native Justin Falk going the other way, somehow.
enstrom is going to be hard to get from WPG tho, i belive he is their number 1 guy and they value him very highly.

I will agree with you that Suter has a question mark, no doubt he will get massive money but will he be worth it, he has only had one 40+ point year and he was -16 that year.

i think he get 6+ close to 7 and i'm not sure at that price he's worth it. still i think he's a fine dman and would help us long and short term.

If we are trading for a DMan i saw we take a look at Blum, he has been sent down this year and the way josi and ellis have played he might be had.

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01-24-2012, 06:54 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
How much is he a product of being paired with Weber?
I look at it the other way around.

Suter would be a huge addition.

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01-24-2012, 07:28 PM
  #82
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not sure if this is all that true, but from i heard, Weber was more benefited from suter.

NSH fan's say suter is still a great player without weber and weber isn't the same without suter.

but i agree they are a great fit together

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01-24-2012, 07:30 PM
  #83
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i really wonder what their value together in a trade to us would look like..

Schultz, Zidlicky, Clutterbuck, Setoguchi, Granlund, two 1st's?

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01-24-2012, 07:33 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
I look at it the other way around.

Suter would be a huge addition.
Rarity here with me agreeing with SoH.

Weber is somewhat a product of Suter. Obviously, Weber creates his own offense, and that's a product of his skill. Also, he's clearly a top tier defenseman on his own. However, Nashville's fans and GM seem to consider Suter the better of the two, and I agree. His play allows Weber to play like he does.

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01-24-2012, 08:14 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Why? Zucker, Coyle, Phillips, Larsson aren't going to make an NHL impact for 3 years anyways. And when they do it will probably start on the 3rd line.

The Wild are going to lose forward at points. Heatley, Setoguchi, Clutterbuck, Brodziak (even if he's re-signed), could all be gone within 3 years. So, even if a core of Koivu/Parise/Carter/Granlund is 100% locked up, there will be positions opening for our prospects.

I rather have Phillips or Coyle playing in the AHL for 2-3 seasons, only to be 100% ready to step into the NHL top-6 when the Wild lose a player to injury or free agency. That's what good teams do. Good teams don't "leave" spots on their roster for their prospects to fill unless the guy has been in the AHL for 3 years.
Think they'll have a hard time beating out Jed Ortmeyer and David McIntyre for a spot?

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01-25-2012, 12:24 AM
  #86
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From Elliotte Friedman's 30 Thoughts
Quote:
20. A couple of teams think Buffalo's Paul Gaustad would be a very nice fit in San Jose. That kind of big, depth centre is exactly the kind of player the Sharks eye. Another GM said he could see Wild defender Marek Zidlicky being a possibility there, too. He's out of favour in Minnesota and those two teams like dealing with one another.
Interesting to think another GM thinks he'd be a fit in San Jose.

This tidbit was also in there, which is good to see.
Quote:
14. Hopefully there's no organizational pressure to force Wild general manager Chuck Fletcher into doing what Yzerman's promising to avoid. Until being crushed by injuries, the Wild was one of the real surprise stories of this season. Short-sighted trades of its tremendous young talent would be a huge mistake. "Florida had the most players at the World Juniors, but Minnesota had the best," said a rival executive.

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01-25-2012, 09:23 AM
  #87
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Interesting to think another GM thinks he'd be a fit in San Jose.
Maybe we can get that pesky 2012 2nd rounder back?

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01-25-2012, 10:22 AM
  #88
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i would hump a dog if we got a 2nd for Zidz

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01-25-2012, 10:55 AM
  #89
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What about Zidlicky for Jamie McGinn? Obviously that would take Zidlicky's salary off our hands, but also give us an intriguing prospect who from my estimation has failed to live up to his potential in SJ. My personal belief is that it's from a lack of opportunity with the forward core they have there. I think McGinn could be a great fit as another guy who can play a bottom 6, but also fill in the top 6 when needed. Also he is another big body that can skate. He'd be an ideal 3rd liner.

Also for those of you who are going to make the prospects jumping to the NHL next year argument, he is an RFA after this year. So really no risk involved. If he doesn't work out we can let him go.

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01-25-2012, 11:12 AM
  #90
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I guess I just don't see the point in selling low on Zidlicky. Especially at this point where his contract isn't preventing the team from doing anything.

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01-25-2012, 11:19 AM
  #91
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I guess I just don't see the point in selling low on Zidlicky. Especially at this point where his contract isn't preventing the team from doing anything.
It's not so much that his contract is preventing us from doing anything. I see it more of his contract in the context of the team. We have proven to be very successful without him, he isn't apart of the future, his attitude is poor, and he has been scratched the last 2 games, which have both been wins. I think to pay him his salary to sit in the press box is a waste of our time. Why not move him? He isn't doing anything for us and his value isn't going to get any higher because he isn't playing.

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01-25-2012, 11:22 AM
  #92
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That's a lot of conjecture right there.

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01-25-2012, 11:24 AM
  #93
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I'm interested by the possibility of adding someone at the deadline, and selling off the obvious pieces (Zanon, Zids, etc) if we can get a good deal for them, but I think we do just need to stay the course and continue to build with our prospects. That will lead to success, but I can see where GMCF is going to have a hard time not wanting to use some of that ammo to get some help in here.

To be realistic, if we do make the playoffs, in all likelihood, we won't have a great shot at winning the cup, and making the playoffs isn't a certainty. We just need to keep developing our young guys, and letting them play and develop. These guys did it earlier in the year, and I can see them coming back around to playing well again to make the playoffs, we don't need to trade our higher prized prospects for a run this year. Also, it's interesting to think of how much have deadline acquisitions really helped a team win a cup. More often than not, the team that wins is built in the offseason, not from one deadline acquisition. Let's hang on to the talent, or even try to add to the pool with some impressive defensive prospects, and have them grow up in the AHL together. This will lead to success.

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01-25-2012, 11:30 AM
  #94
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Zidlicky's contract currently isn't doing anything (except to Leopold check-book) but this off-season it will do a lot.

4 million is a lot of money and a lot of cap space.

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01-25-2012, 11:31 AM
  #95
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this is year where GMCF can kill two birds with one stone, he an get rid of guys like Zids who aren't part of the future and at the same time keep our prospects.

With a healthy koivu i think we can be a playoff team without drastic changes

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01-25-2012, 11:38 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Zidlicky's contract currently isn't doing anything (except to Leopold check-book) but this off-season it will do a lot.

4 million is a lot of money and a lot of cap space.
And there isn't a realistic chance of needing that cap space. (Notice how I used realistic before you throw out your forth-coming scenarios)

Much prefer to keep Zidlicky on than trade for what amounts to nothing. That's just plain bad asset management. He's got a year and a half left of contract. It isn't a pressing need to ship him off. He either gets right or plays lower end minutes. That's fine.

Schultz's contract is still the biggest issue on the team as he's easily replaced by call ups at a third (or less) of the price. He's at a term and hit that is unacceptable for his play.

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01-25-2012, 11:49 AM
  #97
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If we can save $4M in salary it makes it that much easier for Fletch to sell Leipold on adding a quality UFA. Doesn't matter if they're up against the cap or not.

What do you think Leipold's opinion of having $5-6M in salary sitting in the press box each night?

And no, Zidlicky is not an upgrade over any of our defensemen, including the AHL'ers. He doesn't add anything to the team.

Record with Zidlicky: 12-15-7 (0.456 win %)
Record without Zids: 12-3-0 (0.800 win %)

If that's not demonstration of negative value, I don't know what is.

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01-25-2012, 12:05 PM
  #98
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Again, all see is a lot of conjecture. Which is bascally what those stats amount to.

I don't have much of an issue with saying Zidlicky is playing pretty poor. But at the same time I have a hard time looking at the blueline and saying that anyone is playing at an adequate NHL level consistently . It's just become pretty easy to make Zidlicky and Zanon out to be the scapegoats throughout the whole process.

As for whether or not Leipold cares about what he's paying whom, I'm fairly sure he just wants a better product. However they get to that point would work for him. Highly doubt any salary on this team gets in the way of bringing any sort of high end player/contract. And if that were the case, there's others of concern on roster as well.

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01-25-2012, 12:25 PM
  #99
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TP, how are you "being" realistic again? Is it "more" realistic to say the Wild could sign Parise or, for example, Ruutu?

Because the answer is that they are all have them same probability of coming to the Wild. They are all realistic. One player goes to one team. Both will have 5+ teams after them. None of us are mind readers, and even if we were, we can't say where someone will sign until after they sign.

In the future projection world, as long as you don't have insider information, which you do not, signing Suter is as likely as signing Oduya.

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01-25-2012, 12:27 PM
  #100
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Again, all see is a lot of conjecture. Which is bascally what those stats amount to.

I don't have much of an issue with saying Zidlicky is playing pretty poor. But at the same time I have a hard time looking at the blueline and saying that anyone is playing at an adequate NHL level consistently . It's just become pretty easy to make Zidlicky and Zanon out to be the scapegoats throughout the whole process.

As for whether or not Leipold cares about what he's paying whom, I'm fairly sure he just wants a better product. However they get to that point would work for him. Highly doubt any salary on this team gets in the way of bringing any sort of high end player/contract. And if that were the case, there's others of concern on roster as well.
this team plays much better when Zids isn't in the line up and its not even debatable. Sure the guy CAN play better, but he isn't it seems he's checked out of this team he makes so many poor plays its mind blowing.

The sooner we get rid of him the better

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