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sellers or buyers at deadline

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Old
01-23-2012, 05:00 PM
  #51
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As well, he confided to The Toronto Star's Dave Perkins that "the worst thing we did [last season] was finish a point out of the playoffs last year and get the 13th draft choice."

We should be avoiding 9th place at all (salvage) cost. I don't like the whole .00001% chance of winning the Cup that the 8th seed provides. I kind of like top prospects more.

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01-23-2012, 05:22 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Didn't say Burke promised. Don't put words in my mouth.

If you don't remember the Kessel trade and Burke's comments that he didn't think the pick would be that high, that he thought it would be middle of the pack then well ... I can't help you...seriously I can't help you.

Facts is facts -- Burke has miscalculating thinking this team is a playoff team -- every year. Why else would you trade your first round pick? Unless you're stupid. So either Burke miscalcualted or he's stupid. I'll let you pick which one.
Um... no.

Burke DID misscalculate where we'd finnish the year of the Kessel - as pretty much everybody in hockey - minus of course the 20/20 hindsight geniuses on these boards who will pipe up and claim "I knew it!"

Burke said that our GOAL every year should be to make the playoffs. He said it should be every teams goal.

Burke's job is to sit in front of the press and spin positives. It doesn't mean that you - or anyone else on these boards - actually knows how far this team is from the final product in his mind.

Also - to the OP - you lost me when you included Aulie and Schenn in your "sell for the future" rant. Seriously, lol.

Why are 90% of the posts here bandwagon, 'what have you done for me lately', flash over substance crap? Trading Schenn would be retarded - regardless how he's played this year. He 22!!!! D men (with 2 or 3 'generational' exceptions) take until their 25 / 26 to fully develop. Pronger took that long to really get his game together ...

These boards are funny ... "<Insert Grabo/Schenn/Kadri/Kulemin/etc Name Here> is a bum" then 6 months later "<Same Player> is a god!" ... then 6 months later "<What can we get for <Same Player>?" ... lol ... and when you consider that a) these are 20-something players, and b) these are the same people who say they'd have patience for a rebuild, lol ... you just gotta laugh!

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01-23-2012, 05:23 PM
  #53
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I couldn't see Burke being a seller, not with us just barely out of the playoffs.

With that in mind as a buyer I think the main thing Burke will target is another forward that can take some of the heat off of Kessel and Lupol. We can't be depending on two forwards to score every night if we want to be competitive.

A few guys that I could see possibly being moved and that could do that include:

Stastny
Ryan
Carter
Getzlaf
Parise
Clowe
Stewart

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01-23-2012, 05:24 PM
  #54
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We are in a buyers situation for sure

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01-23-2012, 06:01 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Drew75 View Post
Um... no.

Burke DID misscalculate where we'd finnish the year of the Kessel - as pretty much everybody in hockey - minus of course the 20/20 hindsight geniuses on these boards who will pipe up and claim "I knew it!"

Burke said that our GOAL every year should be to make the playoffs. He said it should be every teams goal.

Burke's job is to sit in front of the press and spin positives. It doesn't mean that you - or anyone else on these boards - actually knows how far this team is from the final product in his mind.

Also - to the OP - you lost me when you included Aulie and Schenn in your "sell for the future" rant. Seriously, lol.

Why are 90% of the posts here bandwagon, 'what have you done for me lately', flash over substance crap? Trading Schenn would be retarded - regardless how he's played this year. He 22!!!! D men (with 2 or 3 'generational' exceptions) take until their 25 / 26 to fully develop. Pronger took that long to really get his game together ...

These boards are funny ... "<Insert Grabo/Schenn/Kadri/Kulemin/etc Name Here> is a bum" then 6 months later "<Same Player> is a god!" ... then 6 months later "<What can we get for <Same Player>?" ... lol ... and when you consider that a) these are 20-something players, and b) these are the same people who say they'd have patience for a rebuild, lol ... you just gotta laugh!
First of all I was not ranting, nor was I claiming any of the mentioned players were garbage. Those are your words. The reason I included Schenn and Aulie is because of redundancy, and need. If we could trade a Schenn for a JVR or Ryan would you not do it. I feel we need an impact forward more than an impact D. We are lacking size and sandpaper along the boards. I don't want to trade Schenn because I think he is playing poorly( never said that in the op) learn to read. My proposal is based on the future improvement of the team and clearing up dead weight and salary to bring in some real high end talent FA. Another thing, how am I over reacting about a few loses? I have been saying for a while now , that this team is not ready to compete. We need more pieces, so let's get them. If we were close, they would have won those 2 games, plain and simple.

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Old
01-23-2012, 10:12 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
Burke thought that Toskala wouldn't be as bad, doesn't mean that he thought that the Leafs were a playoff team.

All I'm asking is for a quote from Burke, if you can't find one and are still going on with what you know what he thought then we all know who the idiot is and it's not me nor Burke.
You constantly lambaste anyone who claims to assume Burke's thoughts. You have no idea what Burke's opinion of Toskala was.

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01-23-2012, 10:24 PM
  #57
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I really don't get what some of you have against having veteran leadership and experience on a team. How many teams make playoffs or win Cups without that?

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01-23-2012, 10:47 PM
  #58
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I really don't get what some of you have against having veteran leadership and experience on a team. How many teams make playoffs or win Cups without that?
I know right, its like they want to have a continual flux of young new players every year as soon as our established players get comfortable because they fear they will turn overrated and bad contracts and other non-sense.

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01-23-2012, 10:49 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Twix View Post
You constantly lambaste anyone who claims to assume Burke's thoughts. You have no idea what Burke's opinion of Toskala was.
I believe Burke has stated that he thought Toskala wasn't going to be that bad.

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01-23-2012, 10:56 PM
  #60
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The Leafs have to absolutely have to approach the deadline as buyers. They have to eradicate the culture of losing that has infested the Leafs dressing room and eliminate the mentality that making the playoffs is considered success. The only way to do that is to win games and make the playoffs. Sitting 1-game back of a tie for 8th place, it's a no-brainer.

That being said, it's much easier said then done with the team Burke has assembled. Sure, you can point out some current underachievers (Connolly, Komisarek, etc.), but those guys were also some of our best players at points this season.

When you realize that there are no upgrades at centre to be had, Burke refuses to sign top free agent talent, and that Toronto isn't in a position to give up a ton of assets for a 1-year rental, there is no simple solution.

Looking at depth of Bozak/Connolly, Lombardi, Grabovski, Kulemin, Kadri, MacArthur, Armstrong, there really isn't much of a clear upgrade to be made. Same goes on D with guys like Gunnarsson, Schenn, Franson, Gardiner, Liles and Komisarek. If anything, I think he has to be a buyer and seller at the same time...easier said than done. I don't think there's an upgrade on Gustavsson/Reimer available either.


Last edited by seanlinden: 01-23-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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Old
01-24-2012, 12:56 AM
  #61
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No way in hell we sell, unless we're paying people to take salary from us.

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Old
01-24-2012, 02:59 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
I've never heard Burke promise the playoffs once, letting on that he wants his team to compete is GM speak we hear all of the time.

Supply the evidence or stop lying.
Stop calling people liars. You only hear what you want to hear.

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01-24-2012, 03:36 PM
  #63
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Buyers, some size, some playoff experience, someone skilled at the penalty kill. Could all be one guy. Almost 100% a forward.

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01-24-2012, 03:42 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by cup67 View Post
burke has said he is not going to add players just to make the playoffs.
Makes sense.

Trade deadline deals are normally overpayments for players that GMs think can put them over the top during the playoffs. If a team is a bubble team (like the Leafs are), then it makes no sense to overpay for a player in a deal, just to squeak into the playoffs. Those kinds of deals are done in the summer or during the season, when the cost/return ratio is closer to even.

The only way Burke makes a deal at the deadline, is if it's for a fantastic player that Burke really covets and/or it's a really good deal. And said player must be signed or signable for a while. No way we see a rental come in, at all.

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01-24-2012, 04:44 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by birddog View Post
Stop calling people liars. You only hear what you want to hear.
Seems to me all he wants to hear is some sort of substantiation.

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01-24-2012, 05:02 PM
  #66
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I doubt we see a big trade this season like we've been used to, you have to remember in previous years the Leafs have had nothing to lose. I doubt Burke is going to significantly alter the make-up of the team.

We'll be closer to buyers than sellers, but Burke isn't going to significantly mortgage the future to bolster for a playoff run.

At the end of the day, I doubt we see anything significant.

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01-24-2012, 05:08 PM
  #67
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No way we are sellers at the dead line. It would not be fair on the players, the fans and I don't think that is it managements minds. We are close to the playoffs so we either go with what we have or make a couple of trades to push even hard.

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01-24-2012, 08:58 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Newfie John View Post
Kessel is a liability in the neutral zone? He's not even a liability in the defensive zone. He's not good in the defensive zone, but a RWer would have to be pretty bad to actually be a "liability".

Seguin is not better than Kessel, not even close. Your true colors continue to shine through.
Yes, Phil Kessel, the man in your avatar, is a liability in all but one zone. How you do not see this I do not know. I mean really, just watch the game. He's a floater. Perhaps even stroll over to the main board and see what hockey fans think of him. You'll find his name comes up recurrently when deciding who the softist player in the league is. Maybe talk to a Bruins fan.

Not even close? I guess you missed the two Leafs/Bruins games. Seguin dominated. Kessel was invisible. Seguin is a sophomore. Kessel is a 6 year veteran. I'm sorry bud, but Seguin is already more valuable and we aren't even mentioning the other two prospects.

True colors? I'm sorry you don't agree with the hockey world.

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01-24-2012, 09:08 PM
  #69
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I'd be perfectly content doing nothing on trade deadline day.

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01-24-2012, 11:10 PM
  #70
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Ok so what you are saying is..

Burke being from Boston has no bearing.They flleeced us on the Kessel trade but we fleeced them on the Kaberle trade.Kaberle had no bearing on that cup,they would have won it anyway.So what you are saying is it may come out in the wash.We know Burke overpaid.He still hasn't recovered despite numerous lopsided trades.Im just trying to take some of the pain away by comparing the final tab.

Boston gave us:Kessel,Colborne,Liles and Biggs indirectly.

Toronto gave them:Seguin,Hamilton,Knight and Kaberle.

Doesn't look as bad when you view it that way does it?

I see good things coming from Colborne,not so sure about Biggs.

P.s Hamilton will be a beauty as well.

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01-24-2012, 11:22 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
It was a 2 part trade.Part a)Kessel for Seguin,Hamilton and Knight. Part B) operation reperations, Kaberle for Colborne,Biggs and Liles minus a 2nd rounder to trade up and get Biggs.Kaberle is gone and had little to do with Boston winning their cup.Liles was a 2nd rounder so we have: Kessel - Seguin
Colborne - Hamilton
Biggs - Knight

Knight to me is a run of the mill depth guy who could easily be replaced in free agency or a minor trade.Kessel is clearly a top winger.Seguin will be the next Yzerman..ouch!
Colborne looks to be a big number 2 C we have needed forever.Hamilton will be better than any Leaf defender we currently have on our roster..ouch again.Then the final deciding factor will be Biggs.If he becomes a tough 30 goal winger the trade is a close tie.IF not Boston cleans house on this trade.Come back in 4 years,but yes Burke overpaid and should have had a contingency clause in that trade.
the Kaberle trade ended up being Kaberle + 2nd(John Gibson) for Liles + Colborne + Biggs since we had to trade up to get Biggs. still a big win for us but please don't pretend like one trade had anything to do with the other because it didn't.

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01-24-2012, 11:38 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 View Post
Burke being from Boston has no bearing.They flleeced us on the Kessel trade but we fleeced them on the Kaberle trade.Kaberle had no bearing on that cup,they would have won it anyway.So what you are saying is it may come out in the wash.We know Burke overpaid.He still hasn't recovered despite numerous lopsided trades.Im just trying to take some of the pain away by comparing the final tab.

Boston gave us:Kessel,Colborne,Liles and Biggs indirectly.

Toronto gave them:Seguin,Hamilton,Knight and Kaberle.

Doesn't look as bad when you view it that way does it?

I see good things coming from Colborne,not so sure about Biggs.

P.s Hamilton will be a beauty as well.
The only bearing that Burke being from Boston has is that he likely sees Chiarelli more often than other GMs... so they're comfortable working together. That doesn't mean they "owe" each other in trades -- both should be fired on the spot if they make a deal that isn't the best possible deal they can make for their team.

Nobody got "fleeced" in trades either. The Kessel one became questionable from a Leaf standpoint when they ended up being the worst team in the east, so they got some better than expected prospects out of it. Just like it became questionable from the Bruins perspective when they went from the league's best offense to second worst. Those questions of course get nullified when Boston wins the Stanley Cup.

Again, suggesting we fleeced them on the Kaberle deal is even more ludicrous. THEY WON THE F###ING STANLEY CUP, the fact that some Leafs fans are prepared to call a trade that leads directly to that a bad one shows just how misguided some are. While he didn't play up to his Toronto standard, Kaberle was just as big a part of that cup run as many other players on the Boston team. Before they got him, this was a team who couldn't move the puck to save their life. Who knows, maybe without Kaberle they fail to get by Montreal in the first round! It's not like Boston steamrolled their way to the cup -- they went to 7 three times!

There's really no "pain" involved either. You either liked each individual trade or you didn't. Arbitrarily grouping trades together because they happened to occur with the same team makes no sense.

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Old
01-24-2012, 11:41 PM
  #73
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Hamilton will be better than any Leaf defender we currently have on our roster..ouch again.
I'm not sure you can say this definitively based on OHL play
He will be probably be quite a good player, but we have some pretty good dmen on our team right now.

Keep in mind how good Phaneuf was in his first years in the league and his draft position in the very deep 2003 draft. My point is that players can regress, or not turn out how you think they will. It is VERY early for Hamilton and probably for Knight too.

Seguin is having an amazing year though, as Kessel is.

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01-24-2012, 11:47 PM
  #74
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No way this team is a seller at the deadline. There's no need for it, even if they fall out of the playoff picture.

I don't think we will be big buyers either - Burke's biggest priority will be that top 3 forward + size, I reckon, but if he doesn't find value for money, which I don't think any GM is at the moment, then he won't do anything.

The only way we buy, is if we buy big, in my opinion

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01-25-2012, 12:01 AM
  #75
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
No way this team is a seller at the deadline. There's no need for it, even if they fall out of the playoff picture.

I don't think we will be big buyers either - Burke's biggest priority will be that top 3 forward + size, I reckon, but if he doesn't find value for money, which I don't think any GM is at the moment, then he won't do anything.

The only way we buy, is if we buy big, in my opinion
Have to agree on that to a certain extent.

If you look at most of the guys set to become available at the deadline, you have to seriously ask yourself, how many of them would be worthwhile upgrades over Bozak, Connolly, Grabovski, Kulemin, MacArthur, Lombardi, Kadri and/or Armstrong?

On D, similar story... we can look at upgrades, but who are we going to get thats better than Gunnarsson, Schenn, Liles, Franson, Komisarek and Gardiner?

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