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Old
01-25-2012, 10:41 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Coming from his biggest detractor on the Sabre board, salt comment to taste...

He's an above average defensive player at ES. He is pretty sound positionally, will hustle to get into the play and stay there. He's not a loafer getting into position, nor getting back.


Not this year.Something seems to be missing in his intensity level.Almost like he's not interested.Course I've only seen about half his games so maybe I just saw the bad ones.

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01-25-2012, 10:51 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Coming from his biggest detractor on the Sabre board, salt comment to taste...

He's an above average defensive player at ES. He is pretty sound positionally, will hustle to get into the play and stay there. He's not a loafer getting into position, nor getting back.
false. he is not good positionally.

hustle? check
not a loafer? check
active backchecker? check

positionally sound/defensively aware in the D zone? no... not even close to sound. what's the opposite of "sound"??? oh yea, unsound, he's unsound positionally

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01-25-2012, 10:55 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
[/B]

Not this year.Something seems to be missing in his intensity level.Almost like he's not interested.Course I've only seen about half his games so maybe I just saw the bad ones.
There are a lot of guys not having a good year -- case in point would be both he and Pominville too deep on the Hawks PP goals just last week -- but that does not mean he's not adequate as a defensive player. Heck, some of his most unheralded work came at LW with Drury in '05 in more of a shutdown capacity. It's not simply assessing a player over 50 or so games when his entire team has fallen into disarray.

In his time in Buffalo, their PK has regularly been very good and he's been -- with Pominville -- one of their top four PKers. He's part of that success and has been Ruff's go-to forward since Briere and Drury left. Ruff, for his faults, does not cotton to undisciplined defensive players.

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01-25-2012, 10:58 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
false. he is not good positionally.

hustle? check
not a loafer? check
active backchecker? check

positionally sound/defensively aware in the D zone? no... not even close to sound. what's the opposite of "sound"??? oh yea, unsound, he's unsound positionally
Yeah, sound. Aware. But it's clear after what, four years of harping about the guy that you aren't going to budge about it so that's that.

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01-25-2012, 01:19 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
There are a lot of guys not having a good year -- case in point would be both he and Pominville too deep on the Hawks PP goals just last week -- but that does not mean he's not adequate as a defensive player. Heck, some of his most unheralded work came at LW with Drury in '05 in more of a shutdown capacity. It's not simply assessing a player over 50 or so games when his entire team has fallen into disarray.
In his time in Buffalo, their PK has regularly been very good and he's been -- with Pominville -- one of their top four PKers. He's part of that success and has been Ruff's go-to forward since Briere and Drury left. Ruff, for his faults, does not cotton to undisciplined defensive players.

We're not talking about a lot of guys,just Roy

His performance 6yrs ago as a LWer is not relevant to his performance as a center this yr.

His performance over the last 50gms or so will most certainly be a major factor in determining his trade value.To think otherwise is naive.

His body of work this yr is certainly not up to his usual standard,and it's open to debate whether his poor play is due to his teams funk or the other way round.Yes I know he's not the only guilty party,but he is supposed to be their offensive catalyst.If he doesn't do well their offense disappears and it's downhill from there.

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01-25-2012, 01:34 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jagemon View Post
But then again, if Carter would suck the Blackhawks would be pretty much screwed with that lengthy contract. It's really a two edge sword.
At least if he got traded here, he'd know he'd be playing for a winner and a REAL chance at the cup every playoffs.

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01-25-2012, 01:45 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
We're not talking about a lot of guys,just Roy

His performance 6yrs ago as a LWer is not relevant to his performance as a center this yr.

His performance over the last 50gms or so will most certainly be a major factor in determining his trade value.To think otherwise is naive.

His body of work this yr is certainly not up to his usual standard,and it's open to debate whether his poor play is due to his teams funk or the other way round.Yes I know he's not the only guilty party,but he is supposed to be their offensive catalyst.If he doesn't do well their offense disappears and it's downhill from there.
Ignoring all of the consistent 60-70+ pt years that Roy has had since the lockout is even more naive. I guess Kane doesn't have much trade value because he is having a poor year by his standards right?

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01-25-2012, 02:22 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by BiBoFro View Post
At least if he got traded here, he'd know he'd be playing for a winner and a REAL chance at the cup every playoffs.
If that was so important to him, why did he squander his chance in Philly?

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01-25-2012, 02:30 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
Ignoring all of the consistent 60-70+ pt years that Roy has had since the lockout is even more naive. I guess Kane doesn't have much trade value because he is having a poor year by his standards right?
Nice try but I said the last 50gms would be a major factor not the only one.Of course his career trends will come into play,I would have thought that to be obvious.

You trying to compare Kane and Roy now ?? lol That argument isn't even good enough to be called weak.

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01-25-2012, 02:37 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
If that was so important to him, why did he squander his chance in Philly?
Philly? Stanley Cup?

But no, he didn't ask to be traded, IIRC. Snider and Holmgren just wanted to break up The Wolfpack (R.I.P.). *sheds a single, manly tear*

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01-25-2012, 02:38 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
You trying to compare Kane and Roy now ?? lol That argument isn't even good enough to be called weak.
Holy straw man, Batman! :

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01-25-2012, 02:42 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
Holy straw man, Batman! :
???? Care to explain ??

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Old
01-25-2012, 02:46 PM
  #88
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Roy isn't a rental. You get another year of him at a very low cap hit for what he can bring. That holds value and if another team wants Roy, they will pay what it takes. He's the highest valued center available, other than Jeff Carter who may or may not be available.

Buffalo doesn't need to trade Roy. He's not a UFA and that gives Regier more leverage, as he can wait until the off season to trade him.

1st + Pirri is not worth it for Roy alone. Kaberle got similiar value as that and he was a rental.

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01-25-2012, 03:02 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok89 View Post
Roy isn't a rental. You get another year of him at a very low cap hit for what he can bring. That holds value and if another team wants Roy, they will pay what it takes. He's the highest valued center available, other than Jeff Carter who may or may not be available.

Buffalo doesn't need to trade Roy. He's not a UFA and that gives Regier more leverage, as he can wait until the off season to trade him.

1st + Pirri is not worth it for Roy alone. Kaberle got similiar value as that and he was a rental.
Yeah,never could understand how they got such a good return for Kaberle !

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01-25-2012, 03:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
Yeah,never could understand how they got such a good return for Kaberle !
Mike Fisher got a 1st and a 3rd, who at the time of his trade had 24 points in 55 games. Kaberle got Colbourne and a 1st. This is the trade deadline market, this isn't ****ing HFboard posting nonsense, this is returns that players have returned.

I'm not comparing Roy and Kane, I'm just showing how foolish your argument is. You wouldn't trade Kane for less than he is worth, Darcy isn't going to trade Roy for less than he's worth. He's our best center, on a cheap ass contract, for another year. Only reason he's considered being traded is because he has good value, and Buffalo is in a huge need of a shake-up. Roy has been our most consistent player for the past 5 years. Yes, he's having a bad year this year, look at our team, nobody is having a good year. I'm not trying to sell off Roy as some miracle worker who will instantly make your team a cup favorite or anything, I'm saying I believe he will improve your line up immediately and give you a better scoring option compared to Kruger.

You better believe if he is traded he is going to return just as much if not more than Kaberle and Fisher returned.

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01-25-2012, 03:39 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
Yeah,never could understand how they got such a good return for Kaberle !
He did, Fisher did, Penner did, and Roy will. I'd say Derek Roy is the most valuable there and also not UFA this summer. So if you want him you'll have to dig deeper than a late first + Pirri.

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01-25-2012, 03:44 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by barneyg View Post
Your other points are fine (and enough to prefer Carter), but that's just completely false. Carter is big, not physical. Least hits in the NHL this season, 20+ games played:

Bouchard (MIN) 3
Elliott (COL) 3
Carter (CBJ) 4
O'Reilly (PHX) 4
Jagr (PHI) 5
Morrison (CGY) 5
Loktionov (LA) 5
Havlat (SJ) 5
Wellwood (WIN) 7
Tanguay (CGY) 7
...
Roy (BUF) 21 (still 523rd in the league)
Carter is not physical, but he is more physical than Roy. there is more than Hits to be physical

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok89 View Post
He did, Fisher did, Penner did, and Roy will. I'd say Derek Roy is the most valuable there and also not UFA this summer. So if you want him you'll have to dig deeper than a late first + Pirri.
he will get that as return, and I really hope it's not from the Blackhawks. Roy was awful again yesterday - yes I've seen this game

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01-25-2012, 04:00 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Carter is not physical, but he is more physical than Roy. there is more than Hits to be physical



he will get that as return, and I really hope it's not from the Blackhawks. Roy was awful again yesterday - yes I've seen this game
Your opinion doesn't seem to match up with the coaches because he had by far the most ice time of any sabres forward despite sitting in the box for 4 minutes. It seemed to me he was the best forward going last night, Ruff apparently agreed. It was one of the best games he's played in a while, the guy was all over the ice. But according to you, he was awful. Probably because he didn't show up in the box score.

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01-25-2012, 04:03 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Carter is not physical, but he is more physical than Roy. there is more than Hits to be physical



he will get that as return, and I really hope it's not from the Blackhawks. Roy was awful again yesterday - yes I've seen this game
Like what? Fighting? Penalty minutes? Yelling at people?

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01-25-2012, 04:18 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Your opinion doesn't seem to match up with the coaches because he had by far the most ice time of any sabres forward despite sitting in the box for 4 minutes. It seemed to me he was the best forward going last night, Ruff apparently agreed. It was one of the best games he's played in a while, the guy was all over the ice. But according to you, he was awful. Probably because he didn't show up in the box score.
he looked out ouf place and has had no chemistry with his linemates. He lost the puck more than he should have and I remember Miller make a great save to bail him out TWICE

and Ruff thinks otherwise... aren't there many guys that want him to be fired?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PanicItsVanek26 View Post
Like what? Fighting? Penalty minutes? Yelling at people?
Boardbattles, go infront of the net - in other words things that won't show up in the statsheet

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01-25-2012, 04:23 PM
  #96
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Carter's aimlessness in the offensive zone is the biggest knock on his game. You're out of your element, Donny.

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01-25-2012, 04:28 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
he looked out ouf place and has had no chemistry with his linemates. He lost the puck more than he should have and I remember Miller make a great save to bail him out TWICE

and Ruff thinks otherwise... aren't there many guys that want him to be fired?



Boardbattles, go infront of the net - in other words things that won't show up in the statsheet
Ruff is the longest tenured coach in the NHL. I think he knows a thing or two more than you. And I would put Roy up against Carter any day of the week in those catagories. Roy is the much more tenacious player. It's maybe the main reason he's had the success he's had in his career.

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01-25-2012, 04:28 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
he looked out ouf place and has had no chemistry with his linemates. He lost the puck more than he should have and I remember Miller make a great save to bail him out TWICE

and Ruff thinks otherwise... aren't there many guys that want him to be fired?



Boardbattles, go infront of the net - in other words things that won't show up in the statsheet
Ruff is the longest tenured coach in the NHL. I think he knows a thing or two more than you. And I would put Roy up against Carter any day of the week in those catagories. Roy is the much more tenacious player. It's maybe the main reason he's had the success he's had in his career. You're really struggling right now.

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01-25-2012, 05:25 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
???? Care to explain ??
You were inferring that he was comparing Roy to Kane as players. He was not. He was pointing out the silliness of both player's current struggles dampening their trade value from being consistent scorers in previous seasons. Not realizing that, you proceeded to flame him.

Five tons of flax,
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Old
01-25-2012, 07:18 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
???? Care to explain ??
You willfully misconstrued what he was saying, created your own argument in its place, attributed it to him, and then responded to this new argument. Its basically a trashy way of debating a point. Or maybe you're just stupid and did it without even realizing.

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