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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
01-26-2012, 01:00 AM
  #101
Bubba88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Ruff is the longest tenured coach in the NHL. I think he knows a thing or two more than you. And I would put Roy up against Carter any day of the week in those catagories. Roy is the much more tenacious player. It's maybe the main reason he's had the success he's had in his career. You're really struggling right now.
if anything, Roy is struggeling


good for Ruff, I already know that he is the longest tenured coach but thanks for the information...
And what this has to do with Roy playing awful is beyond me. He got the most ice time? who should have played instead of him? Adam? concussioned Hecht?

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01-26-2012, 01:09 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
If that was so important to him, why did he squander his chance in Philly?
I wish I could slap you for saying that, when, like everyone on these boards, everybody knows the REAL reason for why he was traded.

Carter>Duchene>R.O'R>Roy.

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01-26-2012, 02:28 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BiBoFro View Post

Carter>Duchene>R.O'R>Roy.
And all credibility that you previously had is gone all thanks to one post.

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Old
01-26-2012, 05:46 AM
  #104
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I'd take Carter and Duchene over Roy... and Carter is more proven than Duchene.

In the end I can see what he wants to say with #1 and #2, but ROR isn't better than Roy


but if he has it as Hawks need, I'd agree with him

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01-26-2012, 07:08 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Carter is an elite goalscorer, stats prove me right.
Really?

What is your definition of elite goalscorer?

Carter has as many 40 goal seasons as Brad Boyes.

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01-26-2012, 09:20 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
You were inferring that he was comparing Roy to Kane as players. He was not. He was pointing out the silliness of both player's current struggles dampening their trade value from being consistent scorers in previous seasons. Not realizing that, you proceeded to flame him.

Five tons of flax,
omglolnub
You call that flaming ?? LOLOL Not even close.

And do you really believe Roy's performance(or lack thereof)this year will not be used in an attempt to drive his asking price down? Really ??

If it was a contract year every Sabre fan would be saying how his play declined this year and he shouldn't ask for too much.If he was in arbitration the Sabres themselves would use this year to attempt to lower his price.When it comes to trading him however,all of a sudden his bad year should not affect his trade price?

Well I stand by my statement.His bad year raises questions about whether or not he's on the decline.Is this year an aberration or a sign of things to come ? I personally don't think he's anywhere near as bad as he seems this year and will probably have a resurgence next year.Maybe even this year with a change of scenery and better teammates around him.

Irregardless of that,his general suckiness at present will dampen his present value.I'm not saying he'll go for crap,but he's not going to bring in what Sabre fans would like or expect.

Course there are some GMs out there with strange thinking patterns so you never know,Someone just might cough up an overpayment just because they can or to keep someone else from getting him.Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

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01-26-2012, 09:22 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Jagemon View Post
And all credibility that you previously had is gone all thanks to one post.
He lost that along time ago. He posts dumb crap to troll.

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01-26-2012, 09:28 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdahl View Post
You willfully misconstrued what he was saying, created your own argument in its place, attributed it to him, and then responded to this new argument. Its basically a trashy way of debating a point. Or maybe you're just stupid and did it without even realizing.
Tsk Tsk Personal insults ?? Tacky! And exactly what did I "willfully misconstrue" ?

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01-26-2012, 09:50 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
You call that flaming ?? LOLOL Not even close.

And do you really believe Roy's performance(or lack thereof)this year will not be used in an attempt to drive his asking price down? Really ??

If it was a contract year every Sabre fan would be saying how his play declined this year and he shouldn't ask for too much.If he was in arbitration the Sabres themselves would use this year to attempt to lower his price.When it comes to trading him however,all of a sudden his bad year should not affect his trade price?

Well I stand by my statement.His bad year raises questions about whether or not he's on the decline.Is this year an aberration or a sign of things to come ? I personally don't think he's anywhere near as bad as he seems this year and will probably have a resurgence next year.Maybe even this year with a change of scenery and better teammates around him.

Irregardless of that,his general suckiness at present will dampen his present value.I'm not saying he'll go for crap,but he's not going to bring in what Sabre fans would like or expect.

Course there are some GMs out there with strange thinking patterns so you never know,Someone just might cough up an overpayment just because they can or to keep someone else from getting him.Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
All it takes is one GM to overpay.

Just look at what the Oilers got last year for Dustin Penner who had one good season on his resume and was having an OK year prior to his trade to LA.

Sure, GMs will try and use Roy's injury last year and his struggles this year to get a deal.

But, the Sabres will also point to the fact that there aren't too many centers with 4 40+ assist seasons that are on the market at the deadline this year to boost his trade value.

Also, given Regier's penchant to overvalue his guys, I can't see him moving Roy for a disappointing return.

Although, I'm guessing that if Roy gets moved it won't be the 1st + prospect deal that many Sabres fans want and instead will be in a deal that is something like Roy for Stastny in a top 6 center that needs a change of scenery for another type of move.

But, we shall see.

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01-26-2012, 09:56 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by krazyhawk View Post
Tsk Tsk Personal insults ?? Tacky! And exactly what did I "willfully misconstrue" ?
You said that Roy's poor season would decrease his value greatly.

He said, wouldn't the same then be true of Kane given that he's struggling.

You then responded as though he was directly comparing Roy's value to Kane's, when in reality his only point was that a poor half season shouldn't override years of consistent production. That is the definition of a strawman.

Personal insults? You're silly gotcha style of posting is far more offensive then me calling you an idiot, which from everything I've seen you probably are.

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01-26-2012, 10:29 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdahl View Post
You said that Roy's poor season would decrease his value greatly.

He said, wouldn't the same then be true of Kane given that he's struggling.

You then responded as though he was directly comparing Roy's value to Kane's, when in reality his only point was that a poor half season shouldn't override years of consistent production. That is the definition of a strawman.

Personal insults? You're silly gotcha style of posting is far more offensive then me calling you an idiot, which from everything I've seen you probably are.


Normally I don't do this but in your case I'll make an exception.You sir are a dick.You are severely lacking in reading comprehension.

I said Roy's season would be a major factor in determining his trade value.Nowhere did I say it would decrease his value greatly.If I did please point it out to me because I don't remember saying so.

The topic was Roy's trade value so what does Kane's struggles have to do with that?

Nowhere in any of my posts did I insult,demean or belittle the poster to whom I was responding (at least not until this one).In fact,until you showed up nobody here was insulting anyone.Congrats on being the first.I'll bet your wife/sister is real proud of you!

My apologies to the moderators and other posters here.I usually don't resort to such juvenile writings,but this guy asked for it and I just couldn't help myself.It will not happen again.

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Old
01-26-2012, 10:46 AM
  #112
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I think Nielsen couold be available for the right price. I dont think he is a long term option for the Islanders.

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01-26-2012, 10:57 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Really?

What is your definition of elite goalscorer?

Carter has as many 40 goal seasons as Brad Boyes.
This taken from the other Carter thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
Carter has 115 goals the last three seasons, the fifth highest total in the NHL. In the previous four seasons, Carter has 144 goals the fourth highest total in the NHL. Rick Nash has 143 goals in that same period, the fifth highest total.

As a comparison, Phil Kessel has 117, Iginla has 160, Ovechkin 202, Crosby 138, Malkin 125.

By any measure, Carter is an elite goal scorer. One injury plagued season on a horrific team does not make him the garbage this thread would make an uninformed reader believe.

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01-26-2012, 11:25 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by projexns View Post
This taken from the other Carter thread:
That's all well and good.

I just don't think that a guy with one 40 goal season is an elite goal scorer.

Guys like Brad Boyes and Jonathan Cheechoo have one 40 goal season on their resume.

Plus, if you compare Carter's career G/GP to guys like Stamkos, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, and a bunch of others he doesn't look that elite to me.

Carter had one great year (46 which was 2nd in the NHL) and two good years (7th and 15th in the league).

But, that's pretty much it.

To me, Carter is a good goalscorer. But, he's not in the elite class.

I would compare him to Thomas Vanek in that regard.

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01-26-2012, 11:38 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
That's all well and good.

I just don't think that a guy with one 40 goal season is an elite goal scorer.

Guys like Brad Boyes and Jonathan Cheechoo have one 40 goal season on their resume.

Plus, if you compare Carter's career G/GP to guys like Stamkos, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, and a bunch of others he doesn't look that elite to me.

Carter had one great year (46 which was 2nd in the NHL) and two good years (7th and 15th in the league).

But, that's pretty much it.

To me, Carter is a good goalscorer. But, he's not in the elite class.

I would compare him to Thomas Vanek in that regard.
Anyone can have a career year like Boyes and Cheechoo. You want consistency demonstrated over a number of seasons. It's that year to year consistency with Carter that has him ranked so high over a period of years.

Those 3 years of top 15 finishes are as a 24, 25 and 26 year-old. He just turned 27. He's got more years of productivity ahead of him.

His goal totals are similar to Vanek's. Nevermind the salaries of Ovechkin, Stamkos and Kovalchuk, but how much are the Sabres paying for Vanek's production compared to Carter's $5.3 million cap-hit?

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01-26-2012, 12:02 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
That's all well and good.

I just don't think that a guy with one 40 goal season is an elite goal scorer.

Guys like Brad Boyes and Jonathan Cheechoo have one 40 goal season on their resume.

Plus, if you compare Carter's career G/GP to guys like Stamkos, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, and a bunch of others he doesn't look that elite to me.

Carter had one great year (46 which was 2nd in the NHL) and two good years (7th and 15th in the league).

But, that's pretty much it.

To me, Carter is a good goalscorer. But, he's not in the elite class.

I would compare him to Thomas Vanek in that regard.
after you have seen that stats - scoring goals can be seen in stats - you still want to say that he is not an elite goal scorer?

he is Top5 in the last 4 years. This is elite

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01-26-2012, 12:10 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by projexns View Post
Anyone can have a career year like Boyes and Cheechoo. You want consistency demonstrated over a number of seasons. It's that year to year consistency with Carter that has him ranked so high over a period of years.

Those 3 years of top 15 finishes are as a 24, 25 and 26 year-old. He just turned 27. He's got more years of productivity ahead of him.

His goal totals are similar to Vanek's. Nevermind the salaries of Ovechkin, Stamkos and Kovalchuk, but how much are the Sabres paying for Vanek's production compared to Carter's $5.3 million cap-hit?
Vanek is a bad example. It was an offer sheet and only has a few years left on it. Jeff Carter has 10 years. Will Carter be this productive after age 33? And I really can't stand Carter's attitude.

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01-26-2012, 12:15 PM
  #118
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for a budget team, he could get interesting after he got most of the money. Cap Limit teams get the Cap Space and these teams get the Cap Space without paying much

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01-26-2012, 12:16 PM
  #119
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Carter is definitely a better long term improvement for the Hawks, Roy's return and Carter's will probably be similar. I can see why the Hawks would want Carter, if I was them though, I would be a bit iffy with his contract.

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01-26-2012, 12:20 PM
  #120
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Carter has a good contract. Cap Hit matters more than his length. You will get his best years with a cheap contract and if he can't produce any more, you can handle the situation later

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01-26-2012, 01:23 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
after you have seen that stats - scoring goals can be seen in stats - you still want to say that he is not an elite goal scorer?

he is Top5 in the last 4 years. This is elite
Where does he rank over the last 2.5 years? The past 3.5 years?

The top 5 in the 4 years before this year is tainted as that was when he was with the Flyers and he's no longer on that team and in that system.

If you go 2009-12, Carter has 79 goals to Stamkos' 128 goals and he's T-12th with Vanek and Patrick Sharp over that time.

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01-26-2012, 03:17 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Carter has a good contract. Cap Hit matters more than his length. You will get his best years with a cheap contract and if he can't produce any more, you can handle the situation later
Depends how you define good, you only go by caphit but seriously that contract length is a serious concern with Carter.

Besides you assume his best years production wise are still ahead of him, which is not a safe bet at all. And the part about handling the situation later makes no sense, if Carter sucks with maybe 7 years left in his contract you would still keep 5mil+ with that caphit unless you would eat it and bury to minors.

edit: Must give you the numbers, but.. up to 2018-2019 season Carter will make 5mil. per season so he really isn't attractive to budget teams either. The three years after that go 3mil, 2mil and 2mil. So you would have to eat propably atleast 6 years of Carter before you could possibly get a team who would bite on that.


Last edited by Jagemon: 01-26-2012 at 03:23 PM.
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